IST: Cubs @ Rockies

CSF77 said:

His injuries are hard play injury. Almora is cut from the same cloth

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Don't really agree. KK has always been fragile. 2015 is the only year he played more than 108 games. Almora played in 132 games last year. He played in 127 between AAA/MLB in 2016. He played in 106 in 2015 and keep in mind the minors play fewer games. He played 125 in 2014.

TL1961 said:

Let Quintana walk???

No way. Not a chance. They traded a future star to get him.

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And if he sucks ass this year, why would they pick up his option and pay him 10.5 mil next year..

I get he cost them Jimenez but your not going to hold onto and pay a guy all that money just because of that if he not performing

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chibears55 said:

And if he sucks ass this year, why would they pick up his option and pay him 10.5 mil next year..

I get he cost them Jimenez but your not going to hold onto and pay a guy all that money just because of that if he not performing

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$10.5 mil for any starter really isn't that much. He'd have to be pretty fucking terrible to not pick up his option. Like as an example they were willing to give Brett Anderson $10 mil if he made a full seasons worth of starts regardless of performance.

beckdawg said:

$10.5 mil for any starter really isn't that much. He'd have to be pretty fucking terrible to not pick up his option. Like as an example they were willing to give Brett Anderson $10 mil if he made a full seasons worth of starts regardless of performance.

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I get that..
My origional response was from a post above about if they were looking to add Archer before deadline..

I just pointed out that they could make that move for Archer if that what their plan is and have an option in the off season to let Quintana walk over picking up his option..

Quintana the only one of the 5 starters they could just let walk if they were to add another starter like Archer for 2019 rotation..

Yes.. i agree he has to be sucking super bad to let go, especially considering what they gave up for him and i mentioned that

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beckdawg said:

Don't really agree. KK has always been fragile. 2015 is the only year he played more than 108 games. Almora played in 132 games last year. He played in 127 between AAA/MLB in 2016. He played in 106 in 2015 and keep in mind the minors play fewer games. He played 125 in 2014.

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KK was in his 3rd season when his first injury happened. AA has not played in a starter role yet.

Not really a strong arguement.

CSF77 said:

KK was in his 3rd season when his first injury happened. AA has not played in a starter role yet.

Not really a strong arguement.

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You're arguing that Almora will get hurt at the same rate which is even more flimsy. KK hasn't remained healthy but there's 0 reason to assume Almora will get hurt just because he plays good defense in CF. Kenny Lofton was probably the greatest CF of his generation and in his 17 year career he had 2 seasons where he didn't play 110+ games. One was his rookie season call up. The other was his age 37 season.

chibears55 said:

I get that..
My origional response was from a post above about if they were looking to add Archer before deadline..

I just pointed out that they could make that move for Archer if that what their plan is and have an option in the off season to let Quintana walk over picking up his option..

Quintana the only one of the 5 starters they could just let walk if they were to add another starter like Archer for 2019 rotation..

Yes.. i agree he has to be sucking super bad to let go, especially considering what they gave up for him and i mentioned that

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Archer would cost too much in prospects and they have already committed payroll into the rotation.

If they were going to go after Archer and pay his costs then they would have. Simple as that.

No Coleme is another story. Morrow is a bigger question mark and honestly seeing how Maddon is with his pen in the play offs you have to think that Morrow is a shaky base to build off of. Joe will flat out ignore some pitchers in general when the stakes are high.

So I see it as far more likely that they are looking directly at Coleme.

And to you Beck: your arguement actually supports a trade. Precieved value of KK is low. You are never getting KK and Coleme for that return if KK is off another platinum glove season and playing 130+.

We can argue this over and over but they need a lead off and AA and Happ are in progress vs finished products as lead offs. Add to it you have Heyward and Zo to provide flex if they did it.

On Q: honestly his value is pretty much equall to Archer so far. Neither has really shown up in the W/L stat.

CSF77 said:

I would think that they would concider looking at a bigger deal myself.

Kiermaier Is out for 3 months and I would be weary of being co-dependent on Morrow. Maybe just st evaluate and talk a deal for Coleme and Kiermaier for Happ/Almora/Alzolay and a ptbnl

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Why would the cubs give up their 2 CFers for a CFer that wont be back til July? Who gonna play CF til then?

I could see bolstering the pen by adding Colome for Happ and a pitching prospect that not alzolay..


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April baseball is freaking great....

Lobotomized fans rejoice!!!!

CSF77 said:

And to you Beck: your arguement actually supports a trade. Precieved value of KK is low.

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Again I don't agree. Even if you think KK is a buy low he's A) making $5.666 mil this year and substantially more the following years B) is a career .260/.317/.426 hitter and C) his defense isn't worth that much more than Almora's. Even if I stipulate the best case scenario for him playing time wise his defensive portion of fWAR for 2015 was 2 wins. He was worth 21.3 UZR/150. Almora currently sits at 12.0 UZR/150. So realistically you're talking about the difference between them being between half a win to say 0.8 of a win. But the thing is Almora is a career .296/.335/.454 hitter and not only that but he's cheaper. Simply put, I don't care what his defense is. I'd rather have a very good defender with an above average bat than a great defender with an average or below average bat.

Frankly I don't know why we're even talking about KK. Almora is on pace for a 7.4 win season presently and while I don't think he's anywhere near that good, he's easily on pace for 4 wins. As an example here, that 12.0 UZR Almora has is basically what Buxton did last year(11.5 UZR/150). Buxton hit .253/.314/.413(90 wRC+). Almora is a career .296/.335/.454 hitter(107 wRC+) and is clearly stomping that with his 146 wRC+ presently. Buxton was worth 3.5 wins last year and clearly Almora is a better hitter both this year and on his career. In other words, why fuck with something that's working?

chibears55 said:

I get that..
My origional response was from a post above about if they were looking to add Archer before deadline..

I just pointed out that they could make that move for Archer if that what their plan is and have an option in the off season to let Quintana walk over picking up his option..

Quintana the only one of the 5 starters they could just let walk if they were to add another starter like Archer for 2019 rotation..

Yes.. i agree he has to be sucking super bad to let go, especially considering what they gave up for him and i mentioned that

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I get why you said it they could let him walk. It just would be a terrible move. It also is predicated on him being terrible - so terrible they would feel he is not worth major league average for a starter. That is just not realistic in any way.

CSF77 said:

Archer would cost too much in prospects and they have already committed payroll into the rotation.

If they were going to go after Archer and pay his costs then they would have. Simple as that.

No Coleme is another story. Morrow is a bigger question mark and honestly seeing how Maddon is with his pen in the play offs you have to think that Morrow is a shaky base to build off of. Joe will flat out ignore some pitchers in general when the stakes are high.

So I see it as far more likely that they are looking directly at Coleme.

And to you Beck: your arguement actually supports a trade. Precieved value of KK is low. You are never getting KK and Coleme for that return if KK is off another platinum glove season and playing 130+.

We can argue this over and over but they need a lead off and AA and Happ are in progress vs finished products as lead offs. Add to it you have Heyward and Zo to provide flex if they did it.

On Q: honestly his value is pretty much equall to Archer so far. Neither has really shown up in the W/L stat.

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I can certainly see why you can say Almora is not a proven product at leadoff, as he has not been given that chance previously and has only a handful of games there. But I simly don't see why you think KK is a proven good leadoff hitter. He has experience leading off, but has no more offensive tools than either Almora or Happ.

And nobody is so far ahead of Almora defensively that we should a) give up prospects or b) take on more salary for the difference, (not even taking into account we could get less offensive production). Add to that the injury history, and I am completely baffled by this proposal.

TL1961 said:

I get why you said it they could let him walk. It just would be a terrible move. It also is predicated on him being terrible - so terrible they would feel he is not worth major league average for a starter. That is just not realistic in any way.

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That the whole thing..

They would only decline it if he sucks ass this year ..

He got to be pretty much what he was with cubs last year to get picked up..

He stays the way he is now all year, then i doubt they pick it up..
Struggle to go 6 and ERA in the 4s or worse...

It would be a hard bullet to bite because of what they gave up to get him but like i said their not or shouldn't keep the guy for that reason only if he going to be useless, especially if they can add someone better with that money or maybe Alzolay in his spot..


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chibears55 said:

Why would the cubs give up their 2 CFers for a CFer that wont be back til July? Who gonna play CF til then?

I could see bolstering the pen by adding Colome for Happ and a pitching prospect that not alzolay..


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I never said trade now. I wouldn't deal until the deadline myself. Who knows by then either Almora or Happ could have cemented the job and Morrow has proven effective. But I believe that you have to have 3 deep for Joe in the play offs. Which means Morrow/Cishek/Wilson are locked in. Edwards and Strop are dud prone honestly.

But by then KK would be back and you will have had he time to evaluate the situation.