OT: Lebron

anotheridiot

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LeBron is playing some of his best basketball this postseason for sure. He has control of the game like no one I've seen. I find it very difficult to put LeBron over Jordan though because Jordan was incredible on both ends of the floor and always showed up when it was the biggest stage. At the height of their careers, I could see a very good argument for LeBron, but overall it's still clearly Jordan for me.

Anyway, if Boston had Kyrie then this would be a different story. He can take over a game and close out in the 4th. Not as good as LeBron obviously, but it's a clear answer on the other side. Rozier, Horford, and Tatum just aren't at that level.

I dont know, teams need what Boston has. If Kyrie would play like Paul did last night and actually set up his team mates which got them back in the game of runs it should have been sponsored by Pepto. Boston standing and watching would not be helping.

I am half wondering if LeBron is going to retire, just to come back eventually.
 

RoseMVP1

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Jesus christ Al Horford blows around the basket. Just the past 2 games alone I think I’ve seen him miss 5 open layups/dunks.
 

Crystallas

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When LeBron doesn't get the LeWhistle treatment, his team rarely wins.
 

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Jesus christ Al Horford blows around the basket. Just the past 2 games alone I think I’ve seen him miss 5 open layups/dunks.
Well the last 2 games the Celtics in general have been pretty awful at finishing around the basket, particularly 2 games ago
 

anotheridiot

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Well the last 2 games the Celtics in general have been pretty awful at finishing around the basket, particularly 2 games ago

That is the way the NBA is going thought right? Teams prefer 4's and 5's to stretch the floor and hit threes.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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I dont know, teams need what Boston has. If Kyrie would play like Paul did last night and actually set up his team mates which got them back in the game of runs it should have been sponsored by Pepto. Boston standing and watching would not be helping.

I am half wondering if LeBron is going to retire, just to come back eventually.

Boston has a good thing going with a young nucleus of Brown,Tatum, and Rozier, plus Horford as the stable vet(then add in guys like Marcus Morris and smart). With that said, Kyrie is on a different compared to all of these guys offensively. Boston doesn't really have a guy who can make x straight buckets and pull a team back. There's other ways of making a comeback besides facilitation. Kyrie as such a dangerous option, both in driving and shooting, also puts less pressure on the other guys. Kyrie on ISO would at times lead to less ball movement, but I have no doubt that Kyrie makes the Celtics a better team and more competitive in the playoffs.

With that said, still a good chance Boston wins the series. I mean, they are up 3-2.
 

Crystallas

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Got stats for that? Seems pretty subjective. You know who also got that whistle treatment? That other bald 23 guy.

Everyone has stats for that, you're on the internet. Basketball reference and clones make it easy. But really, the proof is in the game. LeBron needs and gets the whistle treatment more than the next top-5 all-time superstars combined. Forget LBJ-MJ comparisons, not even going there and don't GAF. All I care about is that LeBron, as one person compared to nobody else, as himself, earns his legacy, and is not given a legacy for the sake of promoting the NBA. All you need to do is watch the games, and that is what happens. At some point after being defeated by not getting equal calls from the refs, players just let LeBron do things with little challenge, because to them, there is no point. Not because he beats them so bad, they quit. No, because he can flop, dance, and get away with more than any player in the NBA, and if the opposing team tried to do the same thing, they would get called while LeWhistle can relax and laugh at them.

The true LeBron who went up against Kobe who also had equal star treatment at one point, and Kobe just made LeBron look stupid. But somehow people forget those games, or maybe they aren't bball fans and rely too much on box scores to tell the story? Who knows, but the fact is still there, a declining Kobe made prime LeBron look BAD when both played each other healthy.
 

RoseMVP1

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Boston vs Houston for the finals would be really interesting. I do feel like one of them is going to choke their 3-2 lead.


And maybe I'm crazy, but if Boston somehow wins the title, I think that makes Brad Stevens one of the greatest coaches in NBA history.
 

Crystallas

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Boston vs Houston for the finals would be really interesting. I do feel like one of them is going to choke their 3-2 lead.


And maybe I'm crazy, but if Boston somehow wins the title, I think that makes Brad Stevens one of the greatest coaches in NBA history.

I like Brad Stevens a lot. No reminder needed, but if that half court prayer went in 2010, he would have orchestrated the best rag-tag NCAA championships teams to win it all in modern history. Haywood would be half the player if it wasn't for him IMO.

However, one season does not put a coach on the greatest list. You need a legit career spanning at least the length of the average NBA career(5 seasons).
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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Everyone has stats for that, you're on the internet. Basketball reference and clones make it easy. But really, the proof is in the game. LeBron needs and gets the whistle treatment more than the next top-5 all-time superstars combined. Forget LBJ-MJ comparisons, not even going there and don't GAF. All I care about is that LeBron, as one person compared to nobody else, as himself, earns his legacy, and is not given a legacy for the sake of promoting the NBA. All you need to do is watch the games, and that is what happens. At some point after being defeated by not getting equal calls from the refs, players just let LeBron do things with little challenge, because to them, there is no point. Not because he beats them so bad, they quit. No, because he can flop, dance, and get away with more than any player in the NBA, and if the opposing team tried to do the same thing, they would get called while LeWhistle can relax and laugh at them.

The true LeBron who went up against Kobe who also had equal star treatment at one point, and Kobe just made LeBron look stupid. But somehow people forget those games, or maybe they aren't bball fans and rely too much on box scores to tell the story? Who knows, but the fact is still there, a declining Kobe made prime LeBron look BAD when both played each other healthy.

You have a real axe to grind with Lebron.
 

CODE_BLUE56

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I like Brad Stevens a lot. No reminder needed, but if that half court prayer went in 2010, he would have orchestrated the best rag-tag NCAA championships teams to win it all in modern history. Haywood would be half the player if it wasn't for him IMO.

However, one season does not put a coach on the greatest list. You need a legit career spanning at least the length of the average NBA career(5 seasons).

Yea, when I think of greatness, it's more holistic. That's why I have a hard time ever putting LeBron above Jordan when it comes to "greatness". Stevens is nowhere close to Popovich, Jackson, Riley, etc. in terms of greatness.

However, the Celtics winning a title this year might be the greatest accomplishment by any coach in any season.
 

Crystallas

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You have a real axe to grind with Lebron.

I'm just not a LeBron meatball. He gets special treatment in the post-season like no other player to ever play the game. My critiques are very consistent. I don't reward serial floppers, I don't reward players who carry the ball on every drive. If they do it in a Bulls uniform, I've called them out on it. If the refs were giving Marcus Smart or Marco Bellinelli the same treatment(who are also serial floppers, but they don't get the ref's benefit of the doubt because they're privy) and fans were all like, dayum that player is doing sumfin' great, I don't care what ya'll say. I'd still point out the extraordinarily huge flaw with that logic.

Got any more straws to grasp?
 

Crystallas

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Yea, when I think of greatness, it's more holistic. That's why I have a hard time ever putting LeBron above Jordan when it comes to "greatness". Stevens is nowhere close to Popovich, Jackson, Riley, etc. in terms of greatness.

However, the Celtics winning a title this year might be the greatest accomplishment by any coach in any season.


It might be.
Motta and Ramsey had impressive titles with broken teams. And people forget how good Lenny Wilkins was in his first few seasons.

So it's going to come down to those of newer generations going up against older generations that still watch the NBA religiously in a decent debate for the ages.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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I'm just not a LeBron meatball. He gets special treatment in the post-season like no other player to ever play the game. My critiques are very consistent. I don't reward serial floppers, I don't reward players who carry the ball on every drive. If they do it in a Bulls uniform, I've called them out on it. If the refs were giving Marcus Smart or Marco Bellinelli the same treatment(who are also serial floppers, but they don't get the ref's benefit of the doubt because they're privy) and fans were all like, dayum that player is doing sumfin' great, I don't care what ya'll say. I'd still point out the extraordinarily huge flaw with that logic.

Got any more straws to grasp?

Well it's not really a straw that I'm grasping at, and nowhere have I said your arguments haven't been consistent. That said, earlier in this thread you asked someone to look up the fouls that Lebron gets. So I took your advice and found two sources. They both kind of go against what you're going on about.
 

zack54attack

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Just a casual 46 in an elimination game.
 

anotheridiot

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I really hate the NBA playoffs. I am really trying not to watch. The reason, well, Boston puts Morris on LeRoy in the fourth quarter. The thug smith comes up to set a screen on Morris, grabs him by the neck from behind at half court so LeRoy gets the switch to Tatum.

We have seen our bulls centers have their feet almost planted but are still teetering over the past 20 years and always get called for an offensive foul. NBA playoffs, what can be called a felony on the street is not even a foul.

As far as the LeRoy and MJ comparisons, MJ was a 6'4 guard playing among legit 6'8 to 7 footers. Lebron has always been the man among boys with his size. Mikes game was unfair due to his ability, not just physical play.
 

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