- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,428
- Liked Posts:
- 38,978
My favorite teams
I know it's fashionable to hate him for reasons beyond my understanding, but god damn if you can't enjoy what he's doing right now you probably don't like basketball.
anotheridiot
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Jul 15, 2016
- Posts:
- 5,935
- Liked Posts:
- 799
you mean an 18 point lead and he is playing one on one throwing up air balls and hitting the top of the backboard? Thats why.
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 22,241
- Liked Posts:
- 7,739
- Location:
- Enemy Territory via southern C
As a massive Lebron critique his first decade (most Bulls fans protected that territory for a reason)...his accomplishments the last 4 years along with developing the last piece or two of his game before his body fails...
he has shown me everything he needs to.
I think Jordan's greatest accomplishment was he was the Sentry on guard when a young Shaq showed up to stomp his NBA party. This happens every now and then, it is the way of the league. Your moment as the greatest is brief. Even Curries comes to an end while we enjoy it just began. His body won't go on much longer. The pieces around him help him finish the job he started.
Jordan had to deal with the biggest disruptive force in basketball history. Fucking young Shaq. He had to deal with this uprising, a force never seen before.
The series vs Shaq is Jordan's greatest moment. You watch the way his body moves, the explosive ability he trained in himself, together with developed skills...and David showed up to kill Goliath.
But that series didn't just suppress an uprising...Jordan ripped their hearts out, left no hope in their mind they would ever be that good, and fractured the team so hard it dismantled itself. He destroyed the biggest threat his Bulls ever faced. Destroyed.
That Jordan beats all the greats that week. He was ready. But "The King" has still earned his place among the greats, and his greatest accomplishment is that he split up the triple that Curry would have won. Curry broke basketball as it was played before. He changed what 40 year old men even thought was possible.
The only team I might concede would cause Bulls problems is G.S. The Bulls would have been made uncomfortable over 100 points every night.
Curry wouldn't last one month in that league though either, he would be removed on a stretcher. Its not the same. Stockton was 100 times tougher than Curry to dribble around those lanes like that...
have you ever seen how physical Stockton and Hornecek had to be on defense? Curry couldn't have put his body in harms way like that to play defense either in that era. The screens they set alone would put him on the sidelines.
Lebron is top 10 all time man. All those guys didn't just dominate, they changed the game, pushed rules around, and snuffed out every challenger of their era. Lebron belongs at the very top...where I believe there is no "order." Its guys who changed the game they dominated so hard. Rules were changed or people wanted them changed. They unbalanced the league.
Kareem, Jordan, Lebron, Curry, Magic, Russell, Robertson, Bird, Shaq, Stockton(Kobe)
If that were my top 10 list...the only guys you can start attacking are Stockton, Robertson, and Shaq based upon "winning", something all 3 did enough of. Stockton lacks the chip of course...one of many snuffed out by the greatest competitor on the list. But the Jazz won ALOT OF GAMES.
I guess he makes the rushmore of "duo's"...but where does he rank in terms of creating buckets for others?
Nash would have a case if he stayed in Dallas and won a chip or two with Dirk while achieving the level he got to in Phoenix. But he was an advancement of Stockton, probably modeled his game after him much like Kobe watched Shaq.
And there is my forgotten man. Kobe pushes Stockton off rushmore.
Debating the merits of rushmores 10, or dozen, is fruitless. Lebron makes the cut, thats all he can do or needs to do.
Did Kareem, Curry, Lebron, or Jordan impact a 48 minute game on a hard court more? Who would win if they played at their peaks? Whose rules?
It doesn't matter. All 4 are made of the rarest metal of humankind. They took what their body could do and perfected it until nobody could stop them. Your shape doesn't matter. Its the focus and detail to make your shape unstoppable with a basketball.
he has shown me everything he needs to.
I think Jordan's greatest accomplishment was he was the Sentry on guard when a young Shaq showed up to stomp his NBA party. This happens every now and then, it is the way of the league. Your moment as the greatest is brief. Even Curries comes to an end while we enjoy it just began. His body won't go on much longer. The pieces around him help him finish the job he started.
Jordan had to deal with the biggest disruptive force in basketball history. Fucking young Shaq. He had to deal with this uprising, a force never seen before.
The series vs Shaq is Jordan's greatest moment. You watch the way his body moves, the explosive ability he trained in himself, together with developed skills...and David showed up to kill Goliath.
But that series didn't just suppress an uprising...Jordan ripped their hearts out, left no hope in their mind they would ever be that good, and fractured the team so hard it dismantled itself. He destroyed the biggest threat his Bulls ever faced. Destroyed.
That Jordan beats all the greats that week. He was ready. But "The King" has still earned his place among the greats, and his greatest accomplishment is that he split up the triple that Curry would have won. Curry broke basketball as it was played before. He changed what 40 year old men even thought was possible.
The only team I might concede would cause Bulls problems is G.S. The Bulls would have been made uncomfortable over 100 points every night.
Curry wouldn't last one month in that league though either, he would be removed on a stretcher. Its not the same. Stockton was 100 times tougher than Curry to dribble around those lanes like that...
have you ever seen how physical Stockton and Hornecek had to be on defense? Curry couldn't have put his body in harms way like that to play defense either in that era. The screens they set alone would put him on the sidelines.
Lebron is top 10 all time man. All those guys didn't just dominate, they changed the game, pushed rules around, and snuffed out every challenger of their era. Lebron belongs at the very top...where I believe there is no "order." Its guys who changed the game they dominated so hard. Rules were changed or people wanted them changed. They unbalanced the league.
Kareem, Jordan, Lebron, Curry, Magic, Russell, Robertson, Bird, Shaq, Stockton(Kobe)
If that were my top 10 list...the only guys you can start attacking are Stockton, Robertson, and Shaq based upon "winning", something all 3 did enough of. Stockton lacks the chip of course...one of many snuffed out by the greatest competitor on the list. But the Jazz won ALOT OF GAMES.
I guess he makes the rushmore of "duo's"...but where does he rank in terms of creating buckets for others?
Nash would have a case if he stayed in Dallas and won a chip or two with Dirk while achieving the level he got to in Phoenix. But he was an advancement of Stockton, probably modeled his game after him much like Kobe watched Shaq.
And there is my forgotten man. Kobe pushes Stockton off rushmore.
Debating the merits of rushmores 10, or dozen, is fruitless. Lebron makes the cut, thats all he can do or needs to do.
Did Kareem, Curry, Lebron, or Jordan impact a 48 minute game on a hard court more? Who would win if they played at their peaks? Whose rules?
It doesn't matter. All 4 are made of the rarest metal of humankind. They took what their body could do and perfected it until nobody could stop them. Your shape doesn't matter. Its the focus and detail to make your shape unstoppable with a basketball.
- Joined:
- Apr 11, 2009
- Posts:
- 23,331
- Liked Posts:
- 7,397
My favorite teams
Lebron played amazing last night, but I'm not sure how much of that is Toronto being awful vs Lebron's greatness. That said, Lebron is an all time great player
- Joined:
- Apr 18, 2010
- Posts:
- 19,727
- Liked Posts:
- 4,700
- Location:
- Texas
LeBron was making a number of difficult shots. Toronto is living up to their playoff reputation, but LeBron played lights out.
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 19,896
- Liked Posts:
- 9,618
- Location:
- Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
Last night was a legit entertaining game from LeBron. He barely flopped and wasn't sent to the line 1:1 as often as the entire opposing team as usual(welp, the Cavs did get to the line a LOT more for the same fouls, but we'll overlook the blatant game fixing). Of course, he had a favorable matchup for most of the game, but good players should exploit favorable matchups.
- Joined:
- Apr 11, 2009
- Posts:
- 23,331
- Liked Posts:
- 7,397
My favorite teams
Yeah I didn't watch so I don't really know how much of one factor played into it...seems like both.
Johnnyt237
Member
- Joined:
- Apr 2, 2014
- Posts:
- 267
- Liked Posts:
- 32
- Location:
- Kennewick,WA
Kobe isn't in the top 10 imho. He's top 20 of all time.
RoseMVP1
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Jul 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,966
- Liked Posts:
- 989
Not saying anyone on the board has said such things, but I don’t get why these analysts/tv personalities hop all over lebron dick when he does these things, but then they’re the same people who think the Pacers and Raptors are trash. Hell, Colin Cowherd was saying the Pacers weren’t any good and the only reason Oladipo was putting up good numbers was because he’s in the east. Then he’ll turn around the next day after LeBron hits a game winner on them and calls him the greatest. If the Pacers and Raptors aren’t that good, then it shouldn’t be that impressive
PolarBear
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Jul 8, 2013
- Posts:
- 4,711
- Liked Posts:
- 2,811
I am not a Lebron fan. I do recognise him as the #2 player to ever play this game.
I don't know how you can use his two recent series as an argument for him overtaking MJ. He went 7 games against a team lead by Victor Oladipo and is beating up a Raptors team that he has always owned.
For Lebron to overtake MJ, he has to pull off something MJ never did and that is win a championship with a below average team around him. If he takes this team and wins a title with them, then we can talk.
I don't know how you can use his two recent series as an argument for him overtaking MJ. He went 7 games against a team lead by Victor Oladipo and is beating up a Raptors team that he has always owned.
For Lebron to overtake MJ, he has to pull off something MJ never did and that is win a championship with a below average team around him. If he takes this team and wins a title with them, then we can talk.
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,428
- Liked Posts:
- 38,978
My favorite teams
Who said he's overtaking Michael? Look, I'm the biggest MJ fan there is, but that doesn't preclude me from thoroughly enjoying what Lebron does. That was the point of this thread.
PolarBear
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Jul 8, 2013
- Posts:
- 4,711
- Liked Posts:
- 2,811
Wasn't really having a shot at you or anything. It seems like a conversation that has heated up again even more during these last two series and it annoys me.
He is playing unreal right now and I have always enjoyed the way he passes the ball, dissects teams and gets his teammates involved.
Axl Rose
and I knew the silence of the world
- Joined:
- Oct 11, 2011
- Posts:
- 12,145
- Liked Posts:
- 4,431
- Location:
- a distant shoreline
LeBron owns the Raptors thats forsure.
Icculus
The Great and Knowledgeable
- Joined:
- Jul 30, 2011
- Posts:
- 3,979
- Liked Posts:
- 2,996
- Location:
- Germany
My favorite teams
LeBron owns the East
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,801
- Liked Posts:
- 29,933
LeBron is the East.
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2010
- Posts:
- 18,636
- Liked Posts:
- 7,648
- Location:
- Forest Park
My favorite teams
It's still mind-boggling that people can't appreciate greatness. Both are generational talents that were the best during their period. I wish more people would sit back and enjoy greatness.
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2010
- Posts:
- 18,636
- Liked Posts:
- 7,648
- Location:
- Forest Park
My favorite teams
Yep. And he's probably going back to the Finals...again.
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,428
- Liked Posts:
- 38,978
My favorite teams
Agreed. I imagine that if message boards were around in the 90s, you'd find Portland, Boston, Cleveland, New York, etc fans who hated Michael Jordan just as much as what Lebron gets. We just can't wrap our minds around it, because who among us doesn't love what Jordan did for our team?
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,801
- Liked Posts:
- 29,933
If social media were around when Jordan was, a hell lot more people would hate Jordan. And be sick and tired of him. Though his 1.5 year retirement probably helps some people not be sick of him. With LeBron we don't get that, but LeBron also loses more in the Finals than wins.
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 19,896
- Liked Posts:
- 9,618
- Location:
- Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
IDK why these two keep being compared, but okay. It's not like praise of LeBron takes away from Jordan. Just like critique of LeBron instantly needs to be compared to Jordan just the same. That's stuff Jr High school kids do to pass time on the bus.
People talked more about Jordan then, than they do about LeBron now. Doesn't matter what part of the world you were in. So yeah, social media would be crazy. But that is not at any point to suggest one era is harder than another, just different. Kind of misleading to say one would be harder than the other, because the playing field is level for the whole league as far as access to content and social media.
LeBron is a great player. I enjoy his gameplay when he does great things, but that doesn't change the fact he's got more on-the-court negatives than any other HOF-class NBA star ever to play the game, and quite a few off-the-court but still directly linked the the league. I do not respect flopping players. I hate when they do it in a Bulls uniform and call them out on it just the same. LeBron has become the greatest flopper to ever play the game. And for the sake of the NBA, it has made the NBA worse for it and a damn shame so many fans need to defend his flops just to preserve this image of him being their personal GOAT. Pad stats, okay, whatever, he's pretty bad, but since it's okay for him to pad stats so bad, then that opens the door for other players to do the same as well. Other players added extra numbers here and there, but nobody has ever done it to the extent of LeBron and Westbrook IMO, and that is also a major negative for the league. Now more and more serial stat padders are popping up in all categories, all because they are the franchise players and the league and their teams reward it. The league had an issue with stat padding before, but because players couldn't form super-teams, those stat padders couldn't win it all and pad stats just the same.
Anyways... all arguments that stand regardless of whatever excuse people have to justify them. My whole point is, you CAN enjoy a good game from any player at any given time if they are playing great, but also that doesn't magically erase all the major negatives and negative impact it has had on professional basketball. The league was so bent on distracting from the whole Tim Donaghy deal, they rigged and tried every trick in their basket to promote the game. That created a lot of little monsters, and IMO in time, more people will see the events of the league's history the same way and when LeBron retires, he will be attributed to things he did and how he helped the NBA turn into a globetrotters show instead of a fierce competition of the world's best.
People talked more about Jordan then, than they do about LeBron now. Doesn't matter what part of the world you were in. So yeah, social media would be crazy. But that is not at any point to suggest one era is harder than another, just different. Kind of misleading to say one would be harder than the other, because the playing field is level for the whole league as far as access to content and social media.
LeBron is a great player. I enjoy his gameplay when he does great things, but that doesn't change the fact he's got more on-the-court negatives than any other HOF-class NBA star ever to play the game, and quite a few off-the-court but still directly linked the the league. I do not respect flopping players. I hate when they do it in a Bulls uniform and call them out on it just the same. LeBron has become the greatest flopper to ever play the game. And for the sake of the NBA, it has made the NBA worse for it and a damn shame so many fans need to defend his flops just to preserve this image of him being their personal GOAT. Pad stats, okay, whatever, he's pretty bad, but since it's okay for him to pad stats so bad, then that opens the door for other players to do the same as well. Other players added extra numbers here and there, but nobody has ever done it to the extent of LeBron and Westbrook IMO, and that is also a major negative for the league. Now more and more serial stat padders are popping up in all categories, all because they are the franchise players and the league and their teams reward it. The league had an issue with stat padding before, but because players couldn't form super-teams, those stat padders couldn't win it all and pad stats just the same.
Anyways... all arguments that stand regardless of whatever excuse people have to justify them. My whole point is, you CAN enjoy a good game from any player at any given time if they are playing great, but also that doesn't magically erase all the major negatives and negative impact it has had on professional basketball. The league was so bent on distracting from the whole Tim Donaghy deal, they rigged and tried every trick in their basket to promote the game. That created a lot of little monsters, and IMO in time, more people will see the events of the league's history the same way and when LeBron retires, he will be attributed to things he did and how he helped the NBA turn into a globetrotters show instead of a fierce competition of the world's best.
