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TC in Mississippi

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chibears55 said:
Data shows he faced 24 LH batters a 3rd time through this year and has given up just 3 hits and 1 ER...

So we can scrub that "Data" was the reason he pulled him..




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That’s absolutely wrong. Look at all the previous years where those lefties had .800 plus OPS against him. I look at this years good numbers in that spot and fully expect a regression to the mean. When you analyze a player’s numbers do you ignore his history? Bottom line is Maddon saw something he didn’t like, it looks like it was numbers to me based on the historical data, but of course we have no idea but what I do know is while I’m know the game damn well I’m guessing he’s forgotten more than I, or you will ever know. Unless it’s completely egregious I trust Maddon knows what he’s doing.
 
chibears55

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TC in Mississippi said:
That’s absolutely wrong. Look at all the previous years where those lefties had .800 plus OPS against him. I look at this years good numbers in that spot and fully expect a regression to the mean. When you analyze a player’s numbers do you ignore his history? Bottom line is Maddon saw something he didn’t like, it looks like it was numbers to me based on the historical data, but of course we have no idea but what I do know is while I’m know the game damn well I’m guessing he’s forgotten more than I, or you will ever know. Unless it’s completely egregious I trust Maddon knows what he’s doing.
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Yea.. I usually don't care about what a player did in previous years..
I look and see how their doing now
as far as those type of situations are concerned

Things change over time. Players change, situations change etc etc etc..


Some get better some worse some stay the same..



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fatbeard

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chibears55 said:
Data shows he faced 24 LH batters a 3rd time through this year and has given up just 3 hits and 1 ER...

So we can scrub that "Data" was the reason he pulled him..

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The data show he has a greater than 6.00 ERA against lefties 3rd time through the order for his career. Freeman is 8-15 against him and there was another LHH up after that. This second-guessing is next-level dumb. Maddon made the right decision and got the wrong result, but you apparently prefer a manager who makes the wrong decision and gets lucky. Well, plenty of room on Mike Matheny's bandwagon for you.
 
chibears55

chibears55

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fatbeard said:
The data show he has a greater than 6.00 ERA against lefties 3rd time through the order for his career. Freeman is 8-15 against him and there was another LHH up after that. This second-guessing is next-level dumb. Maddon made the right decision and got the wrong result, but you apparently prefer a manager who makes the wrong decision and gets lucky. Well, plenty of room on Mike Matheny's bandwagon for you.
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He obviously didn't make the right decision if results were wrong..

Bottom Line is he was getting outs yesterday.. his control was good and he only had 79 pitches ..
1 out 1-1 game in 6th, let the guy finish the inning

The guy having a pretty good year so far outside the walks and he has gone 3 times through the order a few times ..
he a veteran major league pitcher..


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fatbeard

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chibears55 said:
He obviously didn't make the right decision if results were wrong..
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There are four categories of manager decisions/outcomes:

1. Right process - Right result (Smart managing)
2. Right process - Wrong result (Smart managing but baseball happens)
3. Wrong Process - Right result (Dumb managing but luck happens)
4. Wrong Process - Wrong result (Mike Matheny)

You think managers who do #3 are doing it correctly. Real smart, Frank. Way to work it through.
 

beckdawg

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How did Maddon "get the wrong results" with regard to Chatwood? Duensing didn't give up 3 runs in the 6th. That was several innings later. And it's not even like the bullpen was burnt. Edwards was in the game because of a pinch hitting situation. Well that and because it was a 1-1 game in the 8th inning.
 

fatbeard

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beckdawg said:
How did Maddon "get the wrong results" with regard to Chatwood? Duensing didn't give up 3 runs in the 6th. That was several innings later. And it's not even like the bullpen was burnt. Edwards was in the game because of a pinch hitting situation. Well that and because it was a 1-1 game in the 8th inning.
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Because Chatwood obviously would've pitched a CG had Maddon only left him in. Duh.
 
anotheridiot

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beckdawg said:
How did Maddon "get the wrong results" with regard to Chatwood? Duensing didn't give up 3 runs in the 6th. That was several innings later. And it's not even like the bullpen was burnt. Edwards was in the game because of a pinch hitting situation. Well that and because it was a 1-1 game in the 8th inning.
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His options are just blown by giving up on these starters in the fourth or fifth inning. The pen has had some great games, but nobody is really slotted into spots. Cicsek sure seems like he should be pegged for the 7th or 8th inning, and he is there some times, other times he is in the game in the fifth.

Lets see if the lay off the fucking shift with Freeman tonight, if not all the time at least when the game is on the line. Then we can talk about him not doing his job.

I never liked him, so boo hoo for me. Eventually that manager that played in the league can understand more of how guys feel getting benched or fish out of water and see where they land in the lineup. Maybe his chemical hair treatment is messing with his brain. This is a guy that can give a shit what people think about him, but somehow he is so vain he needs to dye his hair?
 

beckdawg

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anotheridiot said:
His options are just blown by giving up on these starters in the fourth or fifth inning. The pen has had some great games, but nobody is really slotted into spots. Cicsek sure seems like he should be pegged for the 7th or 8th inning, and he is there some times, other times he is in the game in the fifth.

Lets see if the lay off the fucking shift with Freeman tonight, if not all the time at least when the game is on the line. Then we can talk about him not doing his job.

I never liked him, so boo hoo for me. Eventually that manager that played in the league can understand more of how guys feel getting benched or fish out of water and see where they land in the lineup. Maybe his chemical hair treatment is messing with his brain. This is a guy that can give a shit what people think about him, but somehow he is so vain he needs to dye his hair?
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I mean I'm all for having the debate on whether or not he's over using the bullpen. But that's a different conversation than saying he made the wrong call using Duensing in that situation. They got out of the inning fine with the way it played out. And the thing is they've been very careful with Morrow. The rest of the bullpen has been fairly evenly used. And in terms of innings pitched, they are middle of the pack with 151.2. Cleveland is the lowest at 109.1 innings from relievers. SD is tops at 173.0. There's 10 innings in difference between the cubs and Seattle who's #6. That's literally the the second game of the season where they threw 10.2 innings in relief. They also had that 14 inning game with STL where the bullpen threw 8.1 innings. In other words, I don't think maddon is being particularly abusive of the pen.
 
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anotheridiot said:
His options are just blown by giving up on these starters in the fourth or fifth inning. The pen has had some great games, but nobody is really slotted into spots. Cicsek sure seems like he should be pegged for the 7th or 8th inning, and he is there some times, other times he is in the game in the fifth.

Lets see if the lay off the fucking shift with Freeman tonight, if not all the time at least when the game is on the line. Then we can talk about him not doing his job.

I never liked him, so boo hoo for me. Eventually that manager that played in the league can understand more of how guys feel getting benched or fish out of water and see where they land in the lineup. Maybe his chemical hair treatment is messing with his brain. This is a guy that can give a shit what people think about him, but somehow he is so vain he needs to dye his hair?
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Amazing that time after time you live up to that screen name....well done.

Here's a hint, "idiot". They hire him to win games, they hire him to make the playoffs and they hire him to keep his players interested. That's exactly what he has done since he set foot in Wrigley Field. When you turn on the TV what you are seeing is 25 millionaires playing a kid's game....you think that it's easy to keep them involved playing a 162 game schedule? This is not the Friday Night 16" league of fat men....it's guys who have family, friends and business partners pulling at them nearly every day. More often than not, it's the guy that can manage these many diverse personalities who wins rather than the guy who makes every decision going by "the book". By the book managers are a dime a dozen....anybody, yes even YOU...can follow a predetermined line of baseball strategy. The best managers are the ones who think outside the box and win because of it.

More than any other sport...there is no decision that is ironclad, whether it's by the "book" or not.
 
chibears55

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beckdawg said:
How did Maddon "get the wrong results" with regard to Chatwood? Duensing didn't give up 3 runs in the 6th. That was several innings later. And it's not even like the bullpen was burnt. Edwards was in the game because of a pinch hitting situation. Well that and because it was a 1-1 game in the 8th inning.
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My point is..
Chatwood was pretty locked in and pitching well...
Let him get out of the inning ..
It only the 6th inning , can't keep going to the bullpen in the 5th or 6th inning .
Eventually going to wear down the pen

Who knows
He gets through that inning, maybe gets the 7th to and the whole bullpen strategy is different




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CubsFaninMN

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Anyone hear any rumors of when/if this game will get going? It's a travel night for the Cubs...
 

hwkn

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It'll probably get rained out unless they're willing to wait several more hours.
 
chibears55

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CubsFaninMN said:
Anyone hear any rumors of when/if this game will get going? It's a travel night for the Cubs...
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No time has been set..

Heard cubs were mad that this wasn't scheduled as a day game on get away day..

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hwkn

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Latest is they'll monitor the weather with a possible decision by 8:30pm ct.[only problem is this is the last time they play the Braves this season]
 

hwkn

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The Braves are still monitoring the situation........stay tuned.
 

hwkn

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The website's running a bit behind........no makeup date as of yet.
 
CubsFaninMN

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hwkn said:
The website's running a bit behind........no makeup date as of yet.
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You getting this from the broadcast? MLB.TV still shows "Delayed", I can't see live coverage in the metro. I'm up in Minneapolis... :)

And now finally they all catch up. Thanks for the breaking news, Hwkn!
 
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