How would you realistically fix the Hawks?

dreadpirateroberts

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How would you realistically fix this team?

I’ve been going through FA and trade possibilities to see how this team can get back to being a competitive contender. I would to hear your guys’ thoughts and opinions on what you would do to fix this team.
 

anotheridiot

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I know its a mans game and feelings are supposed to be thrown out the window, but this pissing contest between Bowman and Q is destroying this locker room. The take it or leave it negotiation tactics of Bowman, the way he treated Saad and then Panarin, this year even Hammer along with TVR and Krueger just does not work.

Look at the moves. Saad and Panarin were equal dollars, Murphy and Hammer were basically equal dollars. How different would the team have been with those 2? I know Panarin had 82 points last year, would that have been 100 with Kane? I know you cannot go back and change it, well, we did not think it was possible to change the Saad trade either, but the kids on this roster just have to be looking at history and wondering when it will happen to them.
 

Spunky Porkstacker

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Kempny couldn't play for Q either. Q is obviously one the best coaches in the NHL but wtf? Seems him and SB don't agree on much. In the Cup years decent role players could be slotted in with the still in their prime core players. Gonna take more than that now. Rocky could be ready to pull the trigger if the team starts out slow this fall. link
 

Bigfoot

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Honestly I would start at the top, and make changes in FO. Stan has just made some bone headed contract decisions that have crippled the roster. Also explore trimming the fat of the team. Players that just dont seem to have it anymore, or have checked out.

Need to start building a roster with players that have offensive skill, but can bring a physical game night in and night out. Add in we could use a more aggressive forecheck
 

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Honestly I would start at the top, and make changes in FO. Stan has just made some bone headed contract decisions that have crippled the roster. Also explore trimming the fat of the team. Players that just dont seem to have it anymore, or have checked out.

Need to start building a roster with players that have offensive skill, but can bring a physical game night in and night out. Add in we could use a more aggressive forecheck

I tend to agree on your 1st paragraph....which is kind of where I think Rocky and McDonough will be looking if they drag ass out of the gate. But the only way they would bring in the type of players you're requesting would be to launch Q. The physical game has never been part of his coaching philosophy....some people hold that against him which might have some merit but the bottomline is that with the right players his system works. He's won 3 Cups here in less than 10 years while it was nearly a 50 year wait between Cups before he got here. The players love him but even if they didn't....it would be a tough firing.
 

Probie2429

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How would you realistically fix this team?

I’ve been going through FA and trade possibilities to see how this team can get back to being a competitive contender. I would to hear your guys’ thoughts and opinions on what you would do to fix this team.

Only way to fix this team is to blow it up. The core is way too old now. Does anyone really expect Keith and Seabrook to be able to play 25 plus mins a night in the playoffs at 33 and 36? That's crazy. The Hawks' window closed after 2015. Stan Bowman has handcuffed this team for the next 10 years by haphazardly believing this team is still worthy of contention.

The unfortunate part is that there really isn't a good way to blow it up. You just have to wait it out and let 19 and 88's deals sunset. Even though 88 is a still a top player, I doubt a trade would give the Hawks close to fair value. The contract is just too big to absorb for most teams without having to send back a lot of contracts when cap space and draft picks/prospects are what the Hawks really need. 19 is a 4-5 million cap player making 10.5 million. For that money, he needs to be putting up 75-80 points a year not 55. Negative trade value.

What the Hawks can do in the meantime is start churning their younger NHL players. That means Schmaltz and Debrincat are the Hawks' most valuable trade chips followed by Saad. By the time the Hawks might be competitive again, Schmaltz and Debrincat will be making 6 million plus a season. That's a recipe for a disaster since it does the Hawks no good to have those guys making that much money when they are good players but not guys you can win a Stanley Cup with as core pieces at that much coin.

In summary, I would look to trade Schmaltz, Debrincat, and Saad for starters. Crawford also provided he gets back on the ice and shows he is healthy. Again, there should be absolutely no reason that Crawford as a 35 plus year goalie should be here any longer than his current contract.

The best way to get to the top is to suck for the next 3-5 years. Everyone should get it out of their mind that any of 50, 2, 7, 88, and 19 will be here the next time the Hawks make a deep playoff run.
 

Probie2429

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Stan Bowman had the right idea trading Hammer and Panarin, but the returns he got made absolutely no sense in terms of where the Hawks are as a team. You trade those guys not for players already on their second contracts but draft picks and prospects. Hawks need to be in full blown asset collection mode. Connor Murphy at 3.5 million dollars for the next 4 seasons is a fireable offense and marked the beginning of the end for Bowman in Chicago. You could have traded Panarin to Montreal right now for the # 3 pick in the draft instead Bowman got a guy that put up 35 points for 6 million dollars and a back-up goalie.

Clearly there is a war going on in the FO about where the Hawks are as a franchise. McDonough can't sell a rebuild and Rocky wants his cash cow to keep returning dividends. The problem is that this philosophy will only prolong the agony.
 

Spunky Porkstacker

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Show Stan the door and bring back Dale Tallon, problem with that though is Tallon would refuse to be the Grinch's boy.

Fire the Grinch and give Tallon, an actual hockey guy, that position.
Dale-Tallon-SIGNED-4x6-photo-CHICAGO-BLACKHAWKS-2.jpg
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anotheridiot

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Stan Bowman had the right idea trading Hammer and Panarin, but the returns he got made absolutely no sense in terms of where the Hawks are as a team. You trade those guys not for players already on their second contracts but draft picks and prospects. Hawks need to be in full blown asset collection mode. Connor Murphy at 3.5 million dollars for the next 4 seasons is a fireable offense and marked the beginning of the end for Bowman in Chicago. You could have traded Panarin to Montreal right now for the # 3 pick in the draft instead Bowman got a guy that put up 35 points for 6 million dollars and a back-up goalie.

Clearly there is a war going on in the FO about where the Hawks are as a franchise. McDonough can't sell a rebuild and Rocky wants his cash cow to keep returning dividends. The problem is that this philosophy will only prolong the agony.

There is a current rumor out there, that Stanley is trying to get Darling back along with Justin Faulk. Get another offensive minded d man at 4.8 million and Darling at what he should have paid him last year at the 4.1 per. Another year of trying to fix mistakes, lets start with hammer and panarin.

As far as having the right idea, I am not sure about that. He traded Panarins 6 million slot with Saad. Instead of reaping the benefits with Kane while we can afford Panarin, he moves him because we will not be able to afford him in 3 years while there will still be one more year of saad after that. He traded Hammers 4 millions slot with Murphy's 4.8.
 

Bigfoot

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Not to be a downer, but if Stan trades for Darling he should be fired right on the spot. He had his chance to re sign Darling chose to trade him, and than wants to trade back for him.

To me that reeks of desperation, and shows there is really no plan moving forward.
 

anotheridiot

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Not to be a downer, but if Stan trades for Darling he should be fired right on the spot. He had his chance to re sign Darling chose to trade him, and than wants to trade back for him.

To me that reeks of desperation, and shows there is really no plan moving forward.

I dont even think it would have taken 16 to keep Darling, an offer in the 3's per would have probably got it done.
 

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The lights of the circus are starting to lose their shine and the seedy underbelly is starting to show. The wear and tear on the abused animals that make them the talk of the town in their heyday are now just degraded beasts with a spotlight... New popcorn machine or sideshow doesn't distract from the fact that the main attraction is loosing it's fur, and the the ringmaster is doing all he can to keep it together every night, while the guys in the bank truck counting their money and assure everyone that it's business as usually they just need the one performance that will show everyone. Yeah... that got drawn out too long, but TLDR Bowman gotta go, if only because we all know Grinch isn't. He's still going to be the real problem, but that's just me. A glitz and glamor guy running a hockey team is going to have bright brights and dull lows. Let's hope he can find a way to shine again. But not hopeful.
 
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Spunky Porkstacker

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Ticket prices are through the roof. The caliber of play last season makes it hard to get face when ST holders want to re-sell their tickets. Be interesting to see if a lot of ST holders don't renew, during the good years the renewal rate was very high with a crazy long waiting list.

Maybe I'm wrong but I gotta think the Hawks are hearing it from ST holders. Seems the Grinch has to be doing some grovelling.
 

MassHavoc

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Ticket prices are through the roof. The caliber of play last season makes it hard to get face when ST holders want to re-sell their tickets. Be interesting to see if a lot of ST holders don't renew, during the good years the renewal rate was very high with a crazy long waiting list.

Maybe I'm wrong but I gotta think the Hawks are hearing it from ST holders. Seems the Grinch has to be doing some grovelling.
While i don't disagree, it seems like their focus in the sth base is more on corporations and not necessarily individuals, a more recession proof strategy and less fan friendly.
 

anotheridiot

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While i don't disagree, it seems like their focus in the sth base is more on corporations and not necessarily individuals, a more recession proof strategy and less fan friendly.

They dont care, people wont drop their tickets. Bulls did it the same way with even less of team to resell tickets. That is the key, resell. Up until the middle of last year, we could not list the tickets on the bulls resale site for less than face value. Season ticket holders are just trying to recover some of it.
 

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Call me a cynic but I don't think the team can be "fixed" short-term. Toews is likely who he has been the past 3 seasons. Seabs is old. Keith is old. There is no more Hossa. Those 4 pieces right there are not going to be replaced easily at their Cup-winning calibre of play by what's on the market for cheap--if they even can be replaced at all!

Right there are 4 top-level players who are either not playing anymore, or are not playing anywhere close to their cup-winning standards. Not meant as a knock on them but reality is reality and all players age. Right now the only 2 players we have close to performing at a cup-winning calibre are Kane and Crawford, and if Kane, Panarin, and Crawford together couldn't carry the rest of the team past the 1st round in 2016, can we expect them to do so in 2019?

While things aren't completely bleak (i.e. Debrincat, and whomever out #8 pick is going to be unless it's botched up like Barker or Beach), what we have right now is not going to be the difference maker until they season well enough--this includes unproven prospects like Snuggie and The Joker, as well as guys like Schmaltz, Hino, etc. But what it does mean is that there might be a few more down seasons before the 'hawks resurge with the next gen. As it stands now a lot of cap is tied into a few players who are aging out and thus makes them difficult to move without hurting the team (not to mention NMC's).

Couple that with the apparent disconnect between Stan/Q, and Q's system being dated especially with the personnel we have, and I think it's going to cycle low for a bit, be it Stan/Q/Both being let go or the core being cycled to support as new core develops, or both. I don't think there is a quick fix.
 

anotheridiot

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The Panarin deal was the main head scratcher. The new core could have been Panarin, Schmaltz, Hino, Hartzy, Cat. Tack on Edjsell with that group.

I could have gotten all these moves if it was a dump of salary and then a reduced cost guy EARNING that role. But even dollars Panarin and Saad, even dollars Hammer and Murphy was what deserved to get Bowman canned.

Who cares if the best Toews can do is third line center? Well, Q cares.

Basically, its a crap shoot with this team, Bowman trades guys because they will cost too much in 2020, Q does not play guys and part of it is me thinking that its because they are going to cost too much to keep if they show too much.

You adjust Rutta and Joker as top d men and will seabs and keith be split to the second and third lines?

That to me is the biggest problem, not allowing spots to be earned. You dont want Toews and Kane playing together, then put Kane on the top line.
 

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