IST: Cubs @ Padres

Diehardfan

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Oh, I agree. I am saying that they not only have a bad bullpen, they thought it was a strength, and THEN added Holland (who sucked for the last half of last year, but they didn't seem to know that), and they thought signing him was some great coup.

Yeah, there were a couple of mopes here who insisted the Cubs absolutely HAD to have an established closer and Holland was on their list. The thing is, no one is born a closer. To be established, some team has to give you a shot...the Cubs gave Morrow his shot and he's run with it. As far as Holland goes....there's a reason teams pass guys over and the majority of the time it has nothing to do with money. The word was out on Holland and apparently, the Cardinals didn't hear it. Too bad for them, huh? LOL
 

CubsFaninMN

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Yeah, there were a couple of mopes here who insisted the Cubs absolutely HAD to have an established closer and Holland was on their list. The thing is, no one is born a closer. To be established, some team has to give you a shot...the Cubs gave Morrow his shot and he's run with it. As far as Holland goes....there's a reason teams pass guys over and the majority of the time it has nothing to do with money. The word was out on Holland and apparently, the Cardinals didn't hear it. Too bad for them, huh? LOL

There is a tendency, especially in baseball, to believe that once people have shown they can do particular thing, there's no reason to believe they can't continue to do that same thing. At least, until they prove they no longer have that capability.

I don't think the issue was "everyone knew Holland had lost it, except the Cardinals didn't get the word." If you look at the analyses of this past FA market, Holland was rated, by the analysts, rather highly. And a *lot* of players didn't sign until March or April. So, the late sign doesn't support the theory that everyone knew Holland was now horseshit. And certainly the analysts were treating him as if he could come in on any team and take up the closer role.

The reason for the late sign was simply that there were only so many teams who thought they were desperate for a closer, and of the teams who were in big enough need for one that they would blow Wade Davis kind of money on one, well, um... there was only one, and they blew that money on Wade Davis. The only way to get Holland for less money than what Davis got was to make him wait until April to sign. Along those lines, the Cards were likely *ahead* of five or six other teams who were just about ready to make Holland an offer.

Finally -- Holland and Davis were partners, mirror-images, for several years. Davis gets a nice, big contract, so Holland likely figures he deserves similar treatment. When no one bites, and he is forced through the humiliation of waiting until after the season starts before anyone expresses interest in him... what does that do to a guy's confidence?

Yep -- Holland could be underperforming because, head case as most pro athletes are, his self-confidence was shattered when no one wanted to sign him before Opening Day. It could have been a completely different story had a team signed him last December.
 

chibears55

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Baez is in lineup today...

Noticed Heyward been getting time in CF the last week, hope it nothing and their not looking to move Almora...
1554bbf2e10ef5b06e4a2f1d716249bf.jpg


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CubsFaninMN

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It looks like Joe feels that Javy is needed. Even the Cubs broadcast team, Len and JD, concluded last night that Baez would almost definitely not start today.

This begs the question as to whether Baez would be starting if Almora was available.
 

TL1961

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There is a tendency, especially in baseball, to believe that once people have shown they can do particular thing, there's no reason to believe they can't continue to do that same thing. At least, until they prove they no longer have that capability.

I don't think the issue was "everyone knew Holland had lost it, except the Cardinals didn't get the word." If you look at the analyses of this past FA market, Holland was rated, by the analysts, rather highly. And a *lot* of players didn't sign until March or April. So, the late sign doesn't support the theory that everyone knew Holland was now horseshit. And certainly the analysts were treating him as if he could come in on any team and take up the closer role.

The reason for the late sign was simply that there were only so many teams who thought they were desperate for a closer, and of the teams who were in big enough need for one that they would blow Wade Davis kind of money on one, well, um... there was only one, and they blew that money on Wade Davis. The only way to get Holland for less money than what Davis got was to make him wait until April to sign. Along those lines, the Cards were likely *ahead* of five or six other teams who were just about ready to make Holland an offer.

Finally -- Holland and Davis were partners, mirror-images, for several years. Davis gets a nice, big contract, so Holland likely figures he deserves similar treatment. When no one bites, and he is forced through the humiliation of waiting until after the season starts before anyone expresses interest in him... what does that do to a guy's confidence?

Yep -- Holland could be underperforming because, head case as most pro athletes are, his self-confidence was shattered when no one wanted to sign him before Opening Day. It could have been a completely different story had a team signed him last December.

Well, I do believe getting the 27th out is mental/psychological as much as having good stuff, so when a guy proves to be a good closer it is far different than middle relievers/setup guys who are often good one year and not so good the next.
 

TC in Mississippi

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There is a tendency, especially in baseball, to believe that once people have shown they can do particular thing, there's no reason to believe they can't continue to do that same thing. At least, until they prove they no longer have that capability.

I don't think the issue was "everyone knew Holland had lost it, except the Cardinals didn't get the word." If you look at the analyses of this past FA market, Holland was rated, by the analysts, rather highly. And a *lot* of players didn't sign until March or April. So, the late sign doesn't support the theory that everyone knew Holland was now horseshit. And certainly the analysts were treating him as if he could come in on any team and take up the closer role.

The reason for the late sign was simply that there were only so many teams who thought they were desperate for a closer, and of the teams who were in big enough need for one that they would blow Wade Davis kind of money on one, well, um... there was only one, and they blew that money on Wade Davis. The only way to get Holland for less money than what Davis got was to make him wait until April to sign. Along those lines, the Cards were likely *ahead* of five or six other teams who were just about ready to make Holland an offer.

Finally -- Holland and Davis were partners, mirror-images, for several years. Davis gets a nice, big contract, so Holland likely figures he deserves similar treatment. When no one bites, and he is forced through the humiliation of waiting until after the season starts before anyone expresses interest in him... what does that do to a guy's confidence?

Yep -- Holland could be underperforming because, head case as most pro athletes are, his self-confidence was shattered when no one wanted to sign him before Opening Day. It could have been a completely different story had a team signed him last December.

To me Holland’s struggles could simply be that by signing so late his routine was messed up. It could also be the mental aspect, but I’m not sure it was because no one made him a great offer because he did get that offer from Colorado. Unfortunately for him he dicked around too long hoping to get a little extra and the Rockies signed Davis instead.
 

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It looks like Joe feels that Javy is needed. Even the Cubs broadcast team, Len and JD, concluded last night that Baez would almost definitely not start today.

This begs the question as to whether Baez would be starting if Almora was available.

We want to win games. Baez is young and is extremely hot. Why keep him out? If he was 0 for 20. I could see it but Baez has been incredible and should start all games until he needs a rest. Joe sits people but not his top ones when they are going.
 

SilenceS

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To me Holland’s struggles could simply be that by signing so late his routine was messed up. It could also be the mental aspect, but I’m not sure it was because no one made him a great offer because he did get that offer from Colorado. Unfortunately for him he dicked around too long hoping to get a little extra and the Rockies signed Davis instead.

Closers are hit and miss. Chapman has been the only closer I have seen sicne Hoffman that can do it for 15 years. I know Chapman hasnt done it for that long but I belive he could.
 

Diehardfan

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There is a tendency, especially in baseball, to believe that once people have shown they can do particular thing, there's no reason to believe they can't continue to do that same thing. At least, until they prove they no longer have that capability.

I don't think the issue was "everyone knew Holland had lost it, except the Cardinals didn't get the word." If you look at the analyses of this past FA market, Holland was rated, by the analysts, rather highly. And a *lot* of players didn't sign until March or April. So, the late sign doesn't support the theory that everyone knew Holland was now horseshit. And certainly the analysts were treating him as if he could come in on any team and take up the closer role.

The reason for the late sign was simply that there were only so many teams who thought they were desperate for a closer, and of the teams who were in big enough need for one that they would blow Wade Davis kind of money on one, well, um... there was only one, and they blew that money on Wade Davis. The only way to get Holland for less money than what Davis got was to make him wait until April to sign. Along those lines, the Cards were likely *ahead* of five or six other teams who were just about ready to make Holland an offer.

Finally -- Holland and Davis were partners, mirror-images, for several years. Davis gets a nice, big contract, so Holland likely figures he deserves similar treatment. When no one bites, and he is forced through the humiliation of waiting until after the season starts before anyone expresses interest in him... what does that do to a guy's confidence?

Yep -- Holland could be underperforming because, head case as most pro athletes are, his self-confidence was shattered when no one wanted to sign him before Opening Day. It could have been a completely different story had a team signed him last December.

Wasted a lot of time typing all that...well, mostly gibberish. I have no idea what these guys are thinking or what GM's are offering...apparently you have some inside info that others don't. What I was referring to was the fact that he was and probably still is to some extent....injured goods. That's physical injury as in hip and hamstring which led to trips to the DL, not the psych unit.
 

Diehardfan

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We want to win games. Baez is young and is extremely hot. Why keep him out? If he was 0 for 20. I could see it but Baez has been incredible and should start all games until he needs a rest. Joe sits people but not his top ones when they are going.

You've been singing this guy's praises forever. I always liked him but never in a million years thought he would develop into potentially a 5 tool player. Kudos for seeing what most of us were missing.
 

chibears55

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We want to win games. Baez is young and is extremely hot. Why keep him out? If he was 0 for 20. I could see it but Baez has been incredible and should start all games until he needs a rest. Joe sits people but not his top ones when they are going.
He sick and hurting..
He was supposed to sit yesterday but the situation with Almora came up..



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jooo83

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The Brewers lost in the 10th.
 

Globetrotter

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SD playing like little leaguers. Should be embarrassed.

This Bote kid is really making the best of his opportunities.
 

chibears55

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Hey rook
Bases loaded 1 out, show me what you got

Lol

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fatbeard

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Cain made one of the worst reads on a flyball you'll ever see on Bell's double.
 

chibears55

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I could see cubs having Bote work in the OF over the offseason..

He and LaStella would make a good lefty righty tandem off the bench next season..

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bamainatlanta

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2.5 game lead going into the break
 

TL1961

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You've been singing this guy's praises forever. I always liked him but never in a million years thought he would develop into potentially a 5 tool player. Kudos for seeing what most of us were missing.

Ahem. Ahem! :)
 

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