Individual Perimeter D is grossly overrated

cjswan232482

New member
Joined:
Jul 14, 2013
Posts:
1,169
Liked Posts:
302


Its crazy. The truth is individual perimeter defense is not worth much in today's NBA. Why?

Teams switch so much on pick and roll, that its easy to avoid an elite perimeter defender by just running Pick and Role.

You can easily neutralize a great perimeter player by putting the player he is guarding into the 3-point corner. At that point this 'great' defender will be stuck in the corner also.

The difference between the best perimeter defender (Kawhi) and an above average perimeter defender (Trevor Ariza) is very small in high level playoff games. But the difference between the best perimeter scorers (KD, Curry) and an above average perimeter scorer is MASSIVE.

Even the best perimeter defender has no answer against elite perimeter offensive players. This is a fact.

Your defense is only as good as your weakest link. You could have the best perimeter defender in the league but if you have a single weak link in your defense it does not matter. While elite level offensive players can make up for a single weak offensive player.

Interior defense is much more important than perimeter defense. Having an elite big who can rim protect and switch on pick and roll is much more valuable than a shutdown perimeter defender.

Team defense is much more important than individual perimeter defense. Again teams will pick on your weakest link.
 

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
19,890
Liked Posts:
9,618
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
The style changed because the rules changed. The style didn't change because players suddenly decided they want to get banged and beaten considerably less and then decided to shoot from the outside because suddenly they went from having neanderthal brains to doubling IQ overnight.

But that being said, everything still slides over. A player that is an effective perimeter defender today, is still an effective perimeter defender. Has nothing to do with cross-era comparisons or changes to the game. So that is all irrelevant. A shooter that can be taken out of their groove by a good defender is going to produce less and need to make things happen for teammates. If a defender can't disrupt a shooter, then it's his opponents game to lose based on exterior factors, not base on the product put onto the floor.
 

WindyCity

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
Posts:
30,816
Liked Posts:
35,721
Being a good perimeter defender means you can harass a shot while not getting blown by.

The problem with Parker is he is going to have to play way off of shooters or he is going to get walked by so easily that the defense will struggle to shift to help.

I agree that if you have competent bigs, perimeter defense can be worked around, but you can’t be brutal at 2/3 perimeter positions
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,316
Liked Posts:
7,393
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Still sucks to have bad defenders. Opposing wing players are going to light us up every night.
 

cjswan232482

New member
Joined:
Jul 14, 2013
Posts:
1,169
Liked Posts:
302
Still sucks to have bad defenders. Opposing wing players are going to light us up every night.


It is about team defense. I just saw a non-defender in James Harden win MVP. There are a lot of supposed great players who se individual defense leave a lot to be desired, but the team defensive concepts are sound.
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,316
Liked Posts:
7,393
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
It is about team defense. I just saw a non-defender in James Harden win MVP. There are a lot of supposed great players who se individual defense leave a lot to be desired, but the team defensive concepts are sound.
You are right in that last sentence. Kyle Korver is a perfect example. Horrible individual defender, but is always in the right spot as far as team defense goes. Harden I argue is actually an ok defender, but is just lazy. He's routinely near the top of the league in steals, which although it doesn't mean he's a good defender, at least indicates he knows how to do something.

Problem is Lavine in particular is that he doesn't seem to be a good defender in any sense of the word. Parker I am not as sure of but he's definitely at a disadvantage playing on the perimeter. The other problem is that the team's defense isn't really all that great either.
 

cjswan232482

New member
Joined:
Jul 14, 2013
Posts:
1,169
Liked Posts:
302
You are right in that last sentence. Kyle Korver is a perfect example. Horrible individual defender, but is always in the right spot as far as team defense goes. Harden I argue is actually an ok defender, but is just lazy. He's routinely near the top of the league in steals, which although it doesn't mean he's a good defender, at least indicates he knows how to do something.

Problem is Lavine in particular is that he doesn't seem to be a good defender in any sense of the word. Parker I am not as sure of but he's definitely at a disadvantage playing on the perimeter. The other problem is that the team's defense isn't really all that great either.

The Bulls coaching staff is trying to clean it up as we speak. Last year, the Bulls were fine when they were still using Thibodeau concepts. Things got confused when Jim Boylen tried to change things around. Add to the fact guys were missing practice time, the team as a whole was a defensive mess.
 

Bear Pride

Bears Gonna Shock the World!
Joined:
Aug 28, 2012
Posts:
10,616
Liked Posts:
3,075
I think Scottie Pippen would rewrite this post ....
 

Axl Rose

and I knew the silence of the world
Joined:
Oct 11, 2011
Posts:
12,138
Liked Posts:
4,431
Location:
a distant shoreline
Individual defense was allot more crucial in Pippen's playing days. OP is right that today its more about team defense. However you still need smart defenders to execute it.
 

RoseMVP1

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 25, 2012
Posts:
3,966
Liked Posts:
989
Good thing Wendell Carter showed a knack for blocking shots in the summer league. He's going to have the opportunity to block a lot with all the players that will blow by Zach and Jabari.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,745
How does LaVine-Parker stack up against these duos?

Thompson-Durant

Smith-James

Green-Leonard

Wade-James

Stevenson-Marion

Bryant-Artest

Bryant-Ariza

Allen-Pierce (Tony Allen, Posey off bench)

Ginobili-Bowen

Wade-Posey

Hamilton-Prince

Bryant-Fox

Jordan-Pippen

Anyone see where I'm going with this?
 

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
19,890
Liked Posts:
9,618
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
How does LaVine-Parker stack up against these duos?

Thompson-Durant

Smith-James

Green-Leonard

Wade-James

Stevenson-Marion

Bryant-Artest

Bryant-Ariza

Allen-Pierce (Tony Allen, Posey off bench)

Ginobili-Bowen

Wade-Posey

Hamilton-Prince

Bryant-Fox

Jordan-Pippen

Anyone see where I'm going with this?

Are you saying that perimeter D is over-rated?
 

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,316
Liked Posts:
7,393
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
How does LaVine-Parker stack up against these duos?

Thompson-Durant

Smith-James

Green-Leonard

Wade-James

Stevenson-Marion

Bryant-Artest

Bryant-Ariza

Allen-Pierce (Tony Allen, Posey off bench)

Ginobili-Bowen

Wade-Posey

Hamilton-Prince

Bryant-Fox

Jordan-Pippen

Anyone see where I'm going with this?
None of them have torn ACLs?
 

dennehy

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 29, 2015
Posts:
11,027
Liked Posts:
12,343
Location:
Jewels to get a case of Squirt
Jabari Parker agrees with the OP:

"I just stick to my strengths," he said on 670 The Score in Chicago Wednesday. "Look at everybody in the league. They don't pay players to play defense. There's only two people historically that play defense. I'm not going to say I won't, but to say that's a weakness is like saying that's everybody's weakness. Because I've scored 30 and 20 on a lot of guys that say they play defense."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...parker-says-better-offense-wins-championships
 

Axl Rose

and I knew the silence of the world
Joined:
Oct 11, 2011
Posts:
12,138
Liked Posts:
4,431
Location:
a distant shoreline
Thats a Derrick level comment from Jabari.

Hes basically saying "Play Defense? nah man no thanks"
 

Top