IST: Reds vs Cubs

beckdawg

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chibears55 said:
Guys like Schwarber and Russell are replaceable on this team and can be used to bring in much needed prospects to continue the winning ways..
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Trading Russell would be a mistake IMO. I can't see them trading Schwarber because I can't see them getting proper value. And either way, you're not trading either for prospects. If you were to trade them it's to acquire MLB talent. You're trying to win the next 5 years not 5+ years from now.
 

beckdawg

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chibears55 said:
Why? outside of him being able to play a good defensive SS, what does he bring to the table ?
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He had a 135 wRC+ on July third before getting hurt. Team let him play through it which tanked his offense stats because his defense was that useful. Lindor is a similar defensive talent with a 139 wRC+ and he's worth 6.4 this year.
 
chibears55

chibears55

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beckdawg said:
Trading Russell would be a mistake IMO. I can't see them trading Schwarber because I can't see them getting proper value. And either way, you're not trading either for prospects. If you were to trade them it's to acquire MLB talent. You're trying to win the next 5 years not 5+ years from now.
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Not all prospects are 4-5 years away....

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beckdawg

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chibears55 said:
Not all prospects are 4-5 years away....

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The ones that get traded are. Put it this way, if you're 20 year old Javy Baez raking in AA it's going to be 5 years before you put up a wRC+ over 100. He was a top 10 prospect btw. If you are 20 year old Addison Russell the headline of a big july trade it's been 4 years and some fans want to trade you away. He was also a top 10 prospect. Point here being, it's uncommon for even great prospects to come up and be Kris Bryant or Juan Soto/Acuna. They take time to develop.
 
anotheridiot

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beckdawg said:
Trading Russell would be a mistake IMO. I can't see them trading Schwarber because I can't see them getting proper value. And either way, you're not trading either for prospects. If you were to trade them it's to acquire MLB talent. You're trying to win the next 5 years not 5+ years from now.
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Trading the guy is only half of the battle, you need to consider his replacement being the MVP Javy Baez at his position and still having Happ, Bote and Zobrist for second base, that is of course if Daniel Murphy does not sweep the MVP's of the playoffs leading the team to the world series and accepting a cheap deal.
 

fatbeard

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anotheridiot said:
Trading the guy is only half of the battle, you need to consider his replacement being the MVP Javy Baez at his position and still having Happ, Bote and Zobrist for second base, that is of course if Daniel Murphy does not sweep the MVP's of the playoffs leading the team to the world series and accepting a cheap deal.
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This will be Murphy's last chance at a big deal, and for a guy who wasn't making much money in baseball until he hit 30, that's going to be a important contract for him personally. There's no reason to believe he would accept any deal the Cubs would be willing to offer, or anything "cheap" for that matter.
 
CSF77

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fatbeard said:
This will be Murphy's last chance at a big deal, and for a guy who wasn't making much money in baseball until he hit 30, that's going to be a important contract for him personally. There's no reason to believe he would accept any deal the Cubs would be willing to offer, or anything "cheap" for that matter.
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Depends on his motivations. If it is all about environment and winning a ring he will. Lester and Zobrist are kinda proof that these guys exist and want to play in a winning environment.
 
CSF77

CSF77

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beckdawg said:
The ones that get traded are. Put it this way, if you're 20 year old Javy Baez raking in AA it's going to be 5 years before you put up a wRC+ over 100. He was a top 10 prospect btw. If you are 20 year old Addison Russell the headline of a big july trade it's been 4 years and some fans want to trade you away. He was also a top 10 prospect. Point here being, it's uncommon for even great prospects to come up and be Kris Bryant or Juan Soto/Acuna. They take time to develop.
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I think you overvalue him a bit. Even his D has tanked this year. If anything he is holding back Javy right now.
 

fatbeard

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CSF77 said:
Depends on his motivations. If it is all about environment and winning a ring he will. Lester and Zobrist are kinda proof that these guys exist and want to play in a winning environment.
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Whaaa?

I can think of 211 million reasons why Jon Lester and Ben Zobrist are Cubs right now, and none of them have anything to do with "environment" and "winning a ring". They may have also liked those things, but neither guy took a discounted contract to play for the Cubs, which is what anotheridiot was suggesting Murphy might do. Murphy will be 34 next year, and like Zobrist was at 35, he'll be looking at his last chance for a good contract. Unless the Cubs are prepared to pay him market value, which seems silly given the jam of young players they've already got, re-signing him seems like a pipe dream.
 
CSF77

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fatbeard said:
Whaaa?

I can think of 211 million reasons why Jon Lester and Ben Zobrist are Cubs right now, and none of them have anything to do with "environment" and "winning a ring". They may have also liked those things, but neither guy took a discounted contract to play for the Cubs, which is what anotheridiot was suggesting Murphy might do. Murphy will be 34 next year, and like Zobrist was at 35, he'll be looking at his last chance for a good contract. Unless the Cubs are prepared to pay him market value, which seems silly given the jam of young players they've already got, re-signing him seems like a pipe dream.
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Stranger things have happened. They traded Starlin away to sign Zo. Trying to predict Jed and Theo is a waste of time.

I personally look it at surface level. Murphy brought in the O takes off. Sometimes the answer is that simple and teams adjust to that.
 

fatbeard

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CSF77 said:
Stranger things have happened. They traded Starlin away to sign Zo. Trying to predict Jed and Theo is a waste of time.

I personally look it at surface level. Murphy brought in the O takes off. Sometimes the answer is that simple and teams adjust to that.
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There's a reason why Castro is on his third team at age 28. That was hardly a surprising move.
 
CSF77

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fatbeard said:
There's a reason why Castro is on his third team at age 28. That was hardly a surprising move.
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At the time? And for what they got in return? And after they gave him a contract? Not arguing it but as far as deals go it was short.
 
chibears55

chibears55

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CSF77 said:
Stranger things have happened. They traded Starlin away to sign Zo. Trying to predict Jed and Theo is a waste of time.

I personally look it at surface level. Murphy brought in the O takes off. Sometimes the answer is that simple and teams adjust to that.
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Let just hope Murphy continues to be a plus when he faces better pitching then the Reds

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fatbeard

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CSF77 said:
At the time? And for what they got in return? And after they gave him a contract? Not arguing it but as far as deals go it was short.
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I guess it was surprising for the fans who thought Castro was anything other than an at-best average player who had already hit his ceiling. The deal they signed him to was very cheap, especially the early years, and was essentially a flyer in case he ever developed a more advanced plate approach. Then they acquired Russell (and then Zobrist) and there wasn't any room for him.

The return they got for him tells you what actual baseball executives thought of Castro. Interesting though to see him at 1500 hits at age 28; he's got a shot at 3,000, which would probably make him one of the least valuable players to ever accomplish it. Is there anyone with 3,000 hits and not in the HOF?
 
CSF77

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fatbeard said:
I guess it was surprising for the fans who thought Castro was anything other than an at-best average player who had already hit his ceiling. The deal they signed him to was very cheap, especially the early years, and was essentially a flyer in case he ever developed a more advanced plate approach. Then they acquired Russell (and then Zobrist) and there wasn't any room for him.

The return they got for him tells you what actual baseball executives thought of Castro. Interesting though to see him at 1500 hits at age 28; he's got a shot at 3,000, which would probably make him one of the least valuable players to ever accomplish it. Is there anyone with 3,000 hits and not in the HOF?
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Most likely not. He is a very single talent player but that talent is top end.
 
bamainatlanta

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fatbeard said:
I guess it was surprising for the fans who thought Castro was anything other than an at-best average player who had already hit his ceiling. The deal they signed him to was very cheap, especially the early years, and was essentially a flyer in case he ever developed a more advanced plate approach. Then they acquired Russell (and then Zobrist) and there wasn't any room for him.

The return they got for him tells you what actual baseball executives thought of Castro. Interesting though to see him at 1500 hits at age 28; he's got a shot at 3,000, which would probably make him one of the least valuable players to ever accomplish it. Is there anyone with 3,000 hits and not in the HOF?
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Rafael Palmiero
 
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