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Thread: Joe Maddon's Job Security

  1. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    You don’t remember that 1908 run?


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    LOL. I'm old, but I ain't that old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    You don’t remember that 1908 run?


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    Quote Originally Posted by TC in Mississippi View Post
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    LOL. I'm old, but I ain't that old.
    I'll bet Ommy does....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    You don’t remember that 1908 run?


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    From 1906-1910, they had 3 seasons with 100+ wins and another of 99. 4 WS appearances and 2 WS Championships. The 6 straight winning seasons from 1967-1972 was a pretty decent run, but this current team and its streak has included a WS Championship, so I'd say, they need to get another WS win and Maddon will be in Frank Chance territory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    From 1906-1910, they had 3 seasons with 100+ wins and another of 99. 4 WS appearances and 2 WS Championships. The 6 straight winning seasons from 1967-1972 was a pretty decent run, but this current team and its streak has included a WS Championship, so I'd say, they need to get another WS win and Maddon will be in Frank Chance territory.
    No "Chance"................

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    Nvm
    Last edited by Parade_Rain; 09-10-2018 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    From 1906-1910, they had 3 seasons with 100+ wins and another of 99. 4 WS appearances and 2 WS Championships. The 6 straight winning seasons from 1967-1972 was a pretty decent run, but this current team and its streak has included a WS Championship, so I'd say, they need to get another WS win and Maddon will be in Frank Chance territory.
    Nope, we will always remember when they had a 2 game lead in the division. They should be up by 35 and wrapped up the World Series by now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehardfan View Post
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    No "Chance"................
    2 WS after 108 years of failure is pretty remarkable in any sport much less in a in house icon.

    The only reason why that run holds iconic values is because of the failure that followed.

    So if that is true then braking said string of failure is just as iconic.


    But in truth we over value it in general. It holds no more value than any other WS win. We just perceive it as more because of our own justification.

    That is the same as a Card fan saying their team holds more value than the Cubs because of 11 WS rings. That is a fair arguement but that is their justification. It is their set of values in place.

    I could just say: it is a sport and if that is so important to you that you have to set a value code to it. Maybe you need to live some more vs observe it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    2 WS after 108 years of failure is pretty remarkable in any sport much less in a in house icon.

    The only reason why that run holds iconic values is because of the failure that followed.

    So if that is true then braking said string of failure is just as iconic.


    But in truth we over value it in general. It holds no more value than any other WS win. We just perceive it as more because of our own justification.

    That is the same as a Card fan saying their team holds more value than the Cubs because of 11 WS rings. That is a fair arguement but that is their justification. It is their set of values in place.

    I could just say: it is a sport and if that is so important to you that you have to set a value code to it. Maybe you need to live some more vs observe it.
    Why don't you go out and buy yourself a sense of humor....you are obviously running short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehardfan View Post
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    Why don't you go out and buy yourself a sense of humor....you are obviously running short.
    Not really humorous. I like the Cubs. I don't live it. Anyone who does needs help IMO. I was actually being serious about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Not really humorous. I like the Cubs. I don't live it. Anyone who does needs help IMO. I was actually being serious about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Not really humorous. I like the Cubs. I don't live it. Anyone who does needs help IMO. I was actually being serious about it.
    There is a difference between being a fan and being a fanatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    Nope, we will always remember when they had a 2 game lead in the division. They should be up by 35 and wrapped up the World Series by now
    Soon to be a 1 game lead, lol. But keep being sarcastic, that's awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parade_Rain View Post
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    There is a difference between being a fan and being a fanatic.
    Fan= casual
    Fanatic= commonly found in American football stadiums.

    And “real” football stadiums across the globe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Fan= casual
    Fanatic= commonly found in American football stadiums.

    And “real” football stadiums across the globe.
    You got it, CSF77. It's not mentally healthy to be so wrapped up in the teams you root for, that life is negatively impacted by whether or not the team wins or loses. It's like going to work the next day after a Cubs loss and letting that loss impact your job performance and how you react to co-workers. That is a sign of emotional immaturity.

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    Most of the shop talk is football where I’m at. Baseball is back burner and even then the guys talk NYY vs Red Sox or crappy SDP. Being separate from Cubs nation is nice IMO. Has more to do with my connections with childhood vs a sports obsession.

    If it got that bad I would rather join a beer league and be a active part of my passion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Most of the shop talk is football where I’m at. Baseball is back burner and even then the guys talk NYY vs Red Sox or crappy SDP. Being separate from Cubs nation is nice IMO. Has more to do with my connections with childhood vs a sports obsession.

    If it got that bad I would rather join a beer league and be a active part of my passion.
    The average person might say YOU are too wound up on the Cubs
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    So Maddon let's Strop bat with bases loaded and 1 out and now Strop is injured. Nice job Joe, just really f'ing outstanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapooncha View Post
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    So Maddon let's Strop bat with bases loaded and 1 out and now Strop is injured. Nice job Joe, just really f'ing outstanding.
    Yep, he was willing to let strop try to get more outs than he ever did in a game, probably throw 35 pitches. If anything, you tell the man to stand there and dont swing.

    It was a bunch of head scratching. Pinch hit for Carrot top after he drove in Javy once already. Pull the Nat killer in Bote with the bases loaded. I am sure glad this is not the first time I am whining about Joes bonehead plays.

    I guess there is no way that Javy bunted on his own either, it was a golden Maddon move with the NL RBI leader
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapooncha View Post
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    So Maddon let's Strop bat with bases loaded and 1 out and now Strop is injured. Nice job Joe, just really f'ing outstanding.
    Joe fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    Most of the shop talk is football where I’m at. Baseball is back burner and even then the guys talk NYY vs Red Sox or crappy SDP. Being separate from Cubs nation is nice IMO. Has more to do with my connections with childhood vs a sports obsession.

    If it got that bad I would rather join a beer league and be a active part of my passion.
    I went from being a pretty fair-weather fan to being an active baseball fan in the early 80's when I got into an APBA baseball league. That educated me beyond being solely a home-team fan with little actual data upon which to base my thoughts and theories. APBA is more than just a fantasy league set-up, as you actually play a full season schedule with the team you draft; it's role-playing, dice-and-boards type of play, but it makes you take into account all types of aspects of a player's game. As with any gaming representation, it simplifies various possible outcomes, but you can play with all advanced rules and get a good representative set of season stats out of any given player's card.

    What this did for me was to appreciate not just the Cubs players, but all of the players at the MLB level. Makes it a ton easier to understand how any given team might perform at a base level, with no impact from the coaching staff. You can then get a good feel for the difference a given manager and his staff is making in getting the most out of a given set of players.

    When you look at it from that perspective, it is easier to appreciate how Maddon has managed to get more out of the teams he's managed than the "average" MLB manager. Think of it as mWAR, the manager's wins above replacement. (Too bad it's extremely hard, if not impossible, to calculate mWAR...)

    I'm personally convinced Joe has a much higher mWAR than most of the managers in the league right now. Certainly higher than Renteria. But remember that Epstein was convinced Renteria could take the club on up into a championship window. Had Maddon not suddenly become available, Renteria would have continued as Cubs manager. Ownership wasn't actively looking to replace him with some other guy who could bring it all home.

    That said, I'm also convinced that, without Joe, this club would not have contended in 2015, and would have been looking at a WS window opening in 2016 and peaking around now. Joe advanced that timetable by about a year, over and above what Renteria would likely have been able to produce. And Theo was fine with Renteria.

    That says to me that Maddon doesn't have to worry about his job security. I think he will leave this position when he wants to, not when Epstein wants him to.

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    I think it fair to say that most of the what the hell is Joe doing in the past 3 years has worked but for the better part this year it hasn't

    Joe done a good job with managing his young players and keeping things in order between the veterans and young guys..

    Problem with Joe has been his in game management, most of the time it been head scratcher decisions which his players have come through for the most part but like i said, this year not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsFaninMN View Post
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    I went from being a pretty fair-weather fan to being an active baseball fan in the early 80's when I got into an APBA baseball league. That educated me beyond being solely a home-team fan with little actual data upon which to base my thoughts and theories. APBA is more than just a fantasy league set-up, as you actually play a full season schedule with the team you draft; it's role-playing, dice-and-boards type of play, but it makes you take into account all types of aspects of a player's game. As with any gaming representation, it simplifies various possible outcomes, but you can play with all advanced rules and get a good representative set of season stats out of any given player's card.

    What this did for me was to appreciate not just the Cubs players, but all of the players at the MLB level. Makes it a ton easier to understand how any given team might perform at a base level, with no impact from the coaching staff. You can then get a good feel for the difference a given manager and his staff is making in getting the most out of a given set of players.

    When you look at it from that perspective, it is easier to appreciate how Maddon has managed to get more out of the teams he's managed than the "average" MLB manager. Think of it as mWAR, the manager's wins above replacement. (Too bad it's extremely hard, if not impossible, to calculate mWAR...)

    I'm personally convinced Joe has a much higher mWAR than most of the managers in the league right now. Certainly higher than Renteria. But remember that Epstein was convinced Renteria could take the club on up into a championship window. Had Maddon not suddenly become available, Renteria would have continued as Cubs manager. Ownership wasn't actively looking to replace him with some other guy who could bring it all home.

    That said, I'm also convinced that, without Joe, this club would not have contended in 2015, and would have been looking at a WS window opening in 2016 and peaking around now. Joe advanced that timetable by about a year, over and above what Renteria would likely have been able to produce. And Theo was fine with Renteria.

    That says to me that Maddon doesn't have to worry about his job security. I think he will leave this position when he wants to, not when Epstein wants him to.
    Yeah, this year in particular. With all the crap he's had to deal with....the injuries, ridiculous weather, horrendous batting slumps, poor FA signings and the team's inability to produce pitching from their system.....still, they have the NL's best record. 9/15/18...25 games over .500 and in position to be where they want to be.

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