Anyone Still think Russell and Schwarber will be On the Cubs in 2019

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
CSF77 said:
2nd game with Murphy on the bench and 2nd implosion.

But Russell makes the team better. Yep
Click to expand...

This is a pretty disingenuous comment. Is it Russell's fault the team had 5 hits in 31 ABs? He was 1-3. I mean if your argument is that Murphy has a good bat and maybe provides some impact in the game that's fine but it's not as though Russell lost this game for the cubs. Baez was 0-3. Rizzo was 0-2. Zobrist was 0-2. Contreras was 0-3.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
beckdawg said:
This is a pretty disingenuous comment. Is it Russell's fault the team had 5 hits in 31 ABs? He was 1-3. I mean if your argument is that Murphy has a good bat and maybe provides some impact in the game that's fine but it's not as though Russell lost this game for the cubs. Baez was 0-3. Rizzo was 0-2. Zobrist was 0-2. Contreras was 0-3.
Click to expand...

What it means is saying Russell is the better D and seeing a 11-1 game makes me chuckle.

1 time is funny. When it becomes patterned then it becomes a issue.


You can say player 1 has x-factor stat until you are blue in the face. It matters for naught when you get blown out every time.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
CSF77 said:
What it means is saying Russell is the better D and seeing a 11-1 game makes me chuckle.

1 time is funny. When it becomes patterned then it becomes a issue.


You can say player 1 has x-factor stat until you are blue in the face. It matters for naught when you get blown out every time.
Click to expand...

Do I really need to explain to you that your making a pretty farcical statement here? Sorry but that's not how baseball works. One player isn't the difference between an 11-1 loss and a win unless it's like a pitcher who gives up 6 HRs or something crazy. What more did you want Russell to do here? Since returning from the DL he's 2-7. Ok that's not OMG numbers but that's a .286 batting average.

I mean at this point you're literally looking for reasons to shit on the guy which I don't get at all.
 
Diehardfan

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,265
Liked Posts:
6,685
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Good Lord, there's a new Chibear in the house. They scored one run against a crap pitcher and sent out two pitchers who are not major league pitchers and two more that should be DFA'd. Yet Russell is setting a pattern for blowouts...nice.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Funny guys.

There is a term that I like using and it applies here.

If it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it.

Now I get it is not all 1 guy but you notice pre-Murphy they were on a 1 run string. Then he comes in and they start scoring. And the 2 times that they sit him they can’t score again?

When it is 1 time it is funny

When it happens more it is a issue.

If it ain’t broke

Don’t try to fix it

And for you 2. Don’t try to justify the fix.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
CSF77 said:
Funny guys.

There is a term that I like using and it applies here.

If it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it.

Now I get it is not all 1 guy but you notice pre-Murphy they were on a 1 run string. Then he comes in and they start scoring. And the 2 times that they sit him they can’t score again?

When it is 1 time it is funny

When it happens more it is a issue.

If it ain’t broke

Don’t try to fix it

And for you 2. Don’t try to justify the fix.
Click to expand...

This is an entirely different point than the one you were making. You were shitting on Russell for no reason. That's not the same thing as saying I think Murphy should play most if not all days. Had you said the latter I would have had 0 issue with your comment though I would point out Murphy's only hitting .283 with a .309 on base with the cubs so it's not like he's going *that* crazy with his numbers. Regardless, if you like his bat in the line up fine, say that. But don't take shots as some other guy for no reason. If anything your beef should be with Maddon as he's the one who put the line up out there.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
beckdawg said:
This is an entirely different point than the one you were making. You were shitting on Russell for no reason. That's not the same thing as saying I think Murphy should play most if not all days. Had you said the latter I would have had 0 issue with your comment though I would point out Murphy's only hitting .283 with a .309 on base with the cubs so it's not like he's going *that* crazy with his numbers. Regardless, if you like his bat in the line up fine, say that. But don't take shots as some other guy for no reason. If anything your beef should be with Maddon as he's the one who put the line up out there.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately someone is going to end up sitting.

But when your 2B is putting up a 135 wRC+ your slash guy is posting MVP numbers and your 3B is off injury and a MVP caliber hitter. Your 85 wRC+ SS that you guys are enamored with becomes situational.

Today Russell should play. He has hit 1-3 vs Chacin. Bryant is 0-2 vs him.

But LaStella is also hitting .300+ but with 9 AB’s vs him.

That is looking at your history and constructing a line up card that sets you up to win.

But if push comes to shove 3B LaStells/SS Baez 2B Murphy 1B Rizzo

Now Rizzo could sit a day after his ding and to be honest he has faired meh vs him. Becomes a huge weapon with Bryant late inning then move Murph to 1B
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
CSF77 said:
But when your 2B is putting up a 135 wRC+ your slash guy is posting MVP numbers and your 3B is off injury and a MVP caliber hitter. Your 85 wRC+ SS that you guys are enamored with becomes situational.
Click to expand...

This isn't an argument I've made. The arguments I've made have been in favor of not trading Russell next year. I've said next to nothing about him as for this current season remaining. Like I said if you want to have the discussion you are now making that's fine. But there's no need to take shots at Russell while doing it as though it's solely his fault the team lost the last 2 games. If you want to use him more sparingly again that's fine. I think in a playoff type environment which was are sort of approaching you play the match ups that make the most sense to win the games you need to rather than just go with a stock standard lineup.

Either way, what happened yesterday or monday has nothing to do with this topic given it's about next year so I'd suggest if you want to continue this conversation perhaps we move it to the IST.
 
Diehardfan

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,265
Liked Posts:
6,685
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Still waiting on the "more" so this can be a real "issue" and we can all stop laughing because it's so "funny". The last time the Cubs got blown out it was the Mets and Russell didn't even play.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Diehardfan said:
Still waiting on the "more" so this can be a real "issue" and we can all stop laughing because it's so "funny". The last time the Cubs got blown out it was the Mets and Russell didn't even play.
Click to expand...

Murph was out of the line up that day. I think you are disconnecting.

I said
2nd game with Murphy on the bench and 2nd implosion.

But Russell makes the team better. Yep
Click to expand...

And yes that holds true.

Aug 29: Mets 10-Cubs 3. Murphy on the bench.
Sept 4: Brewers 11 Cubs 1. Murphy on the bench.

Lets see:

Murphy starting:
Cubs Scored: 72 runs. Gave up: 28 runs.

2 games sitting: Scored 4 gave up 21 WTF

not to mention the games leading into it: Aug 16-21 Scored: 5 runs in 5 days. Gave up: 7.

I really can't help you honestly any more.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
beckdawg said:
This isn't an argument I've made. The arguments I've made have been in favor of not trading Russell next year. I've said next to nothing about him as for this current season remaining. Like I said if you want to have the discussion you are now making that's fine. But there's no need to take shots at Russell while doing it as though it's solely his fault the team lost the last 2 games. If you want to use him more sparingly again that's fine. I think in a playoff type environment which was are sort of approaching you play the match ups that make the most sense to win the games you need to rather than just go with a stock standard lineup.

Either way, what happened yesterday or monday has nothing to do with this topic given it's about next year so I'd suggest if you want to continue this conversation perhaps we move it to the IST.
Click to expand...

Next year is completely another story.

Market is strong at SS so the return value doesn't justify it.

Market is weak at 2B (Murphy best FA with LeMehaeu there)
Weak at 1B: Adams best option
Weak at LF. Guy I like Brantley best player.

Personally I would shoot after Brantley. Make him a 4/60 offer to lead off. This year he is at .303/.356/.463 so he is past ankle surgery.

That frees up Schwarber and Happ for trade bait.

OF: Brantley/Almora/Heyward
IF: Bryant/Russell/Baez/Rizzo
C: Contreras

Bench: Zobrist/LaStella/Bote/Cartini

SP: Hamels/Lester/Darvish/Hendricks/Quintana

Pen:
Morrow/Cishek/Chatwood/Strop(club opt)/Duensing(have to cut if bad in ST)/Smyly/Montgomery/Edwards

Now that is most likely a realistic team to field in 2019. Basically you have a pen with 3 SP's sitting as depth and a rotation that is pretty deep. Any guy could put up a ace level year.

What I've seen is this team has not replaced Folwer's role from 2016. Murphy has done that and the record and O signals it. It doesn't have to be Murphy but they need it regardless.
 
Diehardfan

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,265
Liked Posts:
6,685
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
CSF77 said:
Murph was out of the line up that day. I think you are disconnecting.

I said


And yes that holds true.

Aug 29: Mets 10-Cubs 3. Murphy on the bench.
Sept 4: Brewers 11 Cubs 1. Murphy on the bench.

Lets see:

Murphy starting:
Cubs Scored: 72 runs. Gave up: 28 runs.

2 games sitting: Scored 4 gave up 21 WTF

not to mention the games leading into it: Aug 16-21 Scored: 5 runs in 5 days. Gave up: 7.

I really can't help you honestly any more.
Click to expand...

I really think you've had a metric overload. Please enlighten everyone with how Murphy being in the lineup would keep the Cubs pitchers from walking 12, hitting two and giving up 27 hits in those two games. Does he do relief pitching as a side job?

Look, if your pitching is that bad....neither Ozzie Smith's D or Barry Bonds O is gonna save you.

You want to talk honest....this is so stupid, that if your weren't on here so much you would be considered a troll.
 

fatbeard

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2013
Posts:
13,173
Liked Posts:
12,172
anotheridiot said:
and? he was always a shortstop. He was not an every day player and they eventually did move Castro to second did they not? What does that have to do with never moving russell from SS? This is like the let schwarber catch deal. He might frame better than wilson and carrot top, lost 30 pounds, but still they moved him so he will never ever go back? You let your kid in Baez develop the rest of the way, then eventually, he is an everyday player and he may end up going back to SS. This is not Machado getting big and slowing down, or a roid, its a guy ready to go back to his spot when you have 6 other guys that can play second base on the roster.
Click to expand...

He played half a season's worth of innings at 2B in 2015. Your original point about his ego being the reason why they don't move him from SS is idiotic, because they already did once.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Diehardfan said:
I really think you've had a metric overload. Please enlighten everyone with how Murphy being in the lineup would keep the Cubs pitchers from walking 12, hitting two and giving up 27 hits in those two games. Does he do relief pitching as a side job?

Look, if your pitching is that bad....neither Ozzie Smith's D or Barry Bonds O is gonna save you.

You want to talk honest....this is so stupid, that if your weren't on here so much you would be considered a troll.
Click to expand...

More to do with the O stalling. I already said next year they should go after a legit lead off like Brantley because this group cant function with out one and plugging in non lead offs doesn’t work. The only one that did was Rizzo but you lost production in the middle.

Look I get that the pen dropped a load on those games and created a implosion and I played off of it to Amoy you Russell supporters. Because you blindly place defense above offense and that is not the case.

If anything they can’t score runs and the D can’t make the pitching better. Those 2 games were a extreme example of it.

The team plays better with Russell in as late D right now. Arguing against it is pretty dumb because the results don’t support it.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
But even if they went after Murphy next year I wouldn’t cringe. All he does is hit. Can’t hate a guy that goes out and battles.
 
Diehardfan

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,265
Liked Posts:
6,685
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
CSF77 said:
But even if they went after Murphy next year I wouldn’t cringe. All he does is hit. Can’t hate a guy that goes out and battles.
Click to expand...

Now this I agree with....he would be great DH if it were in our league.
 
CSF77

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,960
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Diehardfan said:
Now this I agree with....he would be great DH if it were in our league.
Click to expand...

If he could man LF it would also suffice. Or Bryant to LF and Baez to 3B.

Joe has shown that these things are possible. Well one thing we know is static is not part of the equation
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

10,881members
93,070threads
4,374,954posts
428online users

Members online NOW

  • Member
  • Admin
  • Mod
  • Donor
  • HOF
Total: 428 (members: 40, guests: 388)

Staff online NOW

Top