2017 Draft deal...present and future ramifications

playthrough2001 · Sep 27, 2018

Bearshomer said:
If the Bears keep those three picks we should probably have one solid starting caliber player and one decent depth or ST player. Enough that we would likely be 3-0.

Not unless one of those players were able to grab a headset and convince Fangio to press the Packers' receivers while blitzing into Rodger's face in the 2nd half.

Bears_804 · Sep 27, 2018

Gustavus Adolphus said:
This reeks of poor spelling.

Myk · Sep 27, 2018

Gustavus Adolphus said:
Otherwise, at least imo, we need to stop overvaluing the position of QB.

Seriously? The Bears overvaluing the position of QB???
Since 1951 these are our first round picks for QB, McMahon #5, McNown #12, Harbaugh #26, Grossman #22, Trubisky #2. Considering the way teams with "franchise" QBs are so often in the running and the Bears aren't I'd say we definitely don't value the QB position enough.

What Bears need to do is stop overvaluing defense which is being ruled out of the NFL more and more every year. We're seeing it now. In spite of having a great defense, if the offense doesn't start producing we won't go far. It's only if we get an offense that can hold its own that this defense is going to matter.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 27, 2018

Myk said:
Seriously? The Bears overvaluing the position of QB???
Since 1951 these are our first round picks for QB, McMahon #5, McNown #12, Harbaugh #26, Grossman #22, Trubisky #2. Considering the way teams with "franchise" QBs are so often in the running and the Bears aren't I'd say we definitely don't value the QB position enough.

What Bears need to do is stop overvaluing defense which is being ruled out of the NFL more and more every year. We're seeing it now. In spite of having a great defense, if the offense doesn't start producing we won't go far. It's only if we get an offense that can hold its own that this defense is going to matter.

Please don’t respond to my posts if you’re not going to read them.

Myk · Sep 27, 2018

Gustavus Adolphus said:
Please don’t respond to my posts if you’re not going to read them.

Then I really misunderstood what you were trying to say. Even re-reading it.

Bearshomer · Sep 27, 2018

Gustavus Adolphus said:
Do decent depth players (Kwiatkowski) or ST players (Bellamy) win you Super Bowls?

Who said they are decent?

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 27, 2018

Myk said:
Then I really misunderstood what you were trying to say. Even re-reading it.

When I say "we need to stop overvaluing the QB position" I'm talking about football in general, not specifically the Bears.

Myk · Sep 27, 2018

Gustavus Adolphus said:
When I say "we need to stop overvaluing the QB position" I'm talking about football in general, not specifically the Bears.

The way the rules are going I only see it getting worse.

WestCoastBearsFan · Sep 27, 2018

If we play this stupid game then literally NFL team should be shit on for every pick they used before Tom Brady. This is stupid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Zerovoltz · Sep 27, 2018

Rory Sparrow said:
Seems like it could have been better for the Bears

Yes...I am trolling....but Mahomes in round 1 for KC and Kareem Hunt in round 3....I wouldn't want a redraft.

Mongo_76 · Sep 27, 2018

Gustavus Adolphus said:
My issue has never been how they picked Trubisky but rather in the evaluation. If Pace thought Trubisky is the type of QB that can lead a franchise for a decade, then yeah, move a mountain to get him. Otherwise, at least imo, we need to stop overvaluing the position of QB. If Trubisky turns out to be the player Pace thought he'd be, then (insert 3rd or fourth round player) who? If he doesn't pan out to be who he's thought to be then we won't have to worry about Ryan Pace anymore.

I have not given up on Trubs.

I'm getting there, but haven't made the jump to "bench him" or "he's a bust."

He's sucked so far. And no one on here should be offended when that is called out.

What is really frustrating to me is not that he over-valued him. It's that he has apparently undervalued other QB's. Which means he likely did not play that draft correctly.

Assuming Mahomes and Trubs continue on their current trajectory, it's upsetting to know we likely could have traded BACK, picked up some more picks and still gotten the better QB.

And #ICalledIT is appropriate. I wrote several posts on why we should do exactly what I just noted.

botfly10 · Sep 27, 2018

So rory is asking if the bears could redraft knowing how every player would perform, would they do better?

Is that the question?

Rory Sparrow · Sep 28, 2018

botfly10 said:
So rory is asking if the bears could redraft knowing how every player would perform, would they do better?

Is that the question?

Not really. Its more of an issue with the Bears giving up picks to trade up one spot, when it also seems like the best outcome would have been some other team taking Trubisky at #2 and the Bears 'settling' for Watson or Mahomes or Jamal Adams at #3.

I thought that was clear in my posting, but I have been gone a long time and perhaps I misread my audience.

Rory Sparrow · Sep 28, 2018

Broc said:
What are your feelings on this Rory, genuinely curious as I wasn't really paying much attention to the board during that time and don't recall where you stood on all this stuff? What were your thoughts on the Bears QB situation going into that draft? Did you have a preference to who the Bears took QB wise? Did you want to trade up, stay put, trade back? Did you like Pace's decision to trade up for Mitch?

I've been in CCS prison longer than Nelson Mandela, so I wasn't on the board during draft time.

I thought Watson was the safest choice of the QBs because he had the most established track record and made plays. I didn't think much of Trubisky...I saw him play once and wasn't blown away, and his lack of experience/accomplishment in college was head-scratching. By the same token, I didn't think much of Mahomes as Texas Tech QB production is always hard to assess.

My biggest issue with all of it was that it seemed so contrived by Pace. It was like he arbitrarily decided "This is the year we draft a QB!", and then he arbitrarily decided "Mitch Trubisky is the best QB!", and then he traded up for Trubisky, almost as a means to 'justify' his "Trubisky is the best QB" thinking..."See, Trubisky is the best QB and everyone wanted him so we had to trade up to #2 to get him before somebody else drafted him!".

It seemed like Pace could have drafted a QB with Trubisky's credentials at any point in the last 4 years. I don't really understand what caused Pace to pursue Trubisky so intently, when in the past he would say "We will be drafting a QB every year" and then do the opposite.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 28, 2018

Myk said:
The way the rules are going I only see it getting worse.

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about roughing the passer rules? If so, the league has already had a premium on the position well in advance of that. If you're not talking about that, then I'm not sure what you mean.

Gustavus Adolphus · Sep 28, 2018

Mongo_76 said:
What is really frustrating to me is not that he over-valued him. It's that he has apparently undervalued other QB's. Which means he likely did not play that draft correctly.

Assuming Mahomes and Trubs continue on their current trajectory, it's upsetting to know we likely could have traded BACK, picked up some more picks and still gotten the better QB.

This is where I disagree. I give Pace a lot of credit for making a move as bold as he did. He identified his guy, and did everything in his power to get him, and that's really all you can ask of him. Maybe my use of the word "overvalue" is incorrect here, but if you go by the theory that QB is the most important position on the field (which I'm assuming you'd agree with that) then I don't think you wait around to see if your second or third choice is still available. I find it highly unlikely that Pace had similar grades on all three. If he did then he could have just as easily drafted Watson or Mahomes at 3 (which gets me into my favorite draft topic: the "reach" pick).

Maybe that's a case, as you say, of undervaluing/underrating the other two, but I can't fault him for going and getting his guy.

Myk · Sep 28, 2018

Rory Sparrow said:
I don't really understand what caused Pace to pursue Trubisky so intently, when in the past he would say "We will be drafting a QB every year" and then do the opposite.

He saw raw talent. Odd to draft raw talent at #2 but there were many projecting him to be the first QB gone so Pace wasn't alone.
It is odd the QB draft has been largely ignored in the draft. But I'm OK with that, I think if you're not getting a late rounder you actually expect to be someone those long shots are nothing but wasted picks.

Gustavus Adolphus said:
Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about roughing the passer rules? If so, the league has already had a premium on the position well in advance of that. If you're not talking about that, then I'm not sure what you mean.

That is one. Just all the rules that are going against everything but QB play for the last 30 years or so. They want games like last night where it's fast and high scoring with very little defense.

Rory Sparrow · Sep 28, 2018

Myk said:
He saw raw talent. Odd to draft raw talent at #2 but there were many projecting him to be the first QB gone so Pace wasn't alone.
It is odd the QB draft has been largely ignored in the draft. But I'm OK with that

That is almost superfluous, as I can't imagine a GM, even one as bad as Ryan Pace, spending the #2 overall pick on a QB who didn't at the very least show "raw talent". Was Trubisky a superior prospect to other QBs from previous draft years, like an Andrew Luck prospect? No. That's my point. But judging from Pace's actions, he clearly saw Trubisky as a once-in-a-generation QB.

Myk · Sep 28, 2018

Rory Sparrow said:
That is almost superfluous, as I can't imagine a GM, even one as bad as Ryan Pace, spending the #2 overall pick on a QB who didn't at the very least show "raw talent". Was Trubisky a superior prospect to other QBs from previous draft years, like an Andrew Luck prospect? No. That's my point. But judging from Pace's actions, he clearly saw Trubisky as a once-in-a-generation QB.

Not that kind of raw talent. I would guess "it". Would I spend a #2 on someone I thought had "it" who at least hasn't shown it more than Trubisky did? Probably not. But if Pace didn't someone else would've. We could've passed on moving up and got Kizer. It wouldn't have necessarily been Mahomes or Watson or whoever else does better from 2017 next week.

Hindsight it probably would've been better to see if we could've traded the first away to 2018 and then used the 2018 firsts to move up to pick of the litter position. Or Glennon may have got us the #1-#2 position, but the meltdowns around here would've been insufferable if Glennon played the whole year.
At least on the early flashes 2018 does indeed seem to be a good QB year.

Bearly · Sep 28, 2018

Broc said:
Glad your back Rory. In regards to your post, we could play the "what if" hindsight draft game with just about any draft the past 30 odd years although I'm not sure what any of it proves ultimately... That said, I do think Pace's decision to trade up for Mitch is definitely worth discussing, far more interesting, and is getting somewhat lost in all the angst over Mitch's play thus far.

I can totally understand people being frustrated at Mitch's production thus far but I feel like people are misdirecting a lot of their frustration at him instead of Pace who is the guy ultimately to blame for being in this situation in the first place.

What are your feelings on this Rory, genuinely curious as I wasn't really paying much attention to the board during that time and don't recall where you stood on all this stuff? What were your thoughts on the Bears QB situation going into that draft? Did you have a preference to who the Bears took QB wise? Did you want to trade up, stay put, trade back? Did you like Pace's decision to trade up for Mitch?

Players don't draft themselves and shouldn't be geld responsible for it, just their performance.

2017 Draft deal...present and future ramifications

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