Bushrod gave up 2nd-most QB hurries of any OT in 2012

BearsFan51

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2012

Drew Brees 670 passing attempts(2nd most in the league)

Jay Cutler 434 passing attempts

:marshmallow:


Here is how ProFootballFocus formulates their signature stat known as pass blocking efficiency.


Again they already took into account attempts when they came up with their rating.

You also need to consider that Webb pass protected in more games than Cutler attempted passes because Cutler missed one and a half games in 2012 with his injury.
 

Colonel_Buendia

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Y'all have excel and the attempts are listed on the chart, stop bitching and just do the math
 

botfly10

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I'll say something ( same thing I said before and during FA too ) Bushrod was a marginal upgrade, factor in the pay difference, not a bargain at all.

I would be surprise he ends his contract as the Bears starting LT. If the OL is too improve, it has to be from the interior. Webb will be fine as RT. more sacks will be from Cutler scrambling ( from pressure other than the right ) than from Webb being flat out beat.

But all said, the OL should be improved, but still a WIP.

I have a hunch they are hoping that Long is the eventual long term solution at LT.
 

botfly10

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Here is how ProFootballFocus formulates their signature stat known as pass blocking efficiency.


Again they already took into account attempts when they came up with their rating.

You also need to consider that Webb pass protected in more games than Cutler attempted passes because Cutler missed one and a half games in 2012 with his injury.

I think campbell managed to get sacked more times than there were pass plays.
 

Penny Traitor

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I'll say something ( same thing I said before and during FA too ) Bushrod was a marginal upgrade, factor in the pay difference, not a bargain at all.

At the end of the day...Emery might be willing to admit the same.

However, you have to look at the corner he was painted into due to Angelo having three, first-round, strikeouts at the position. He was a FA familiar with the coaching schemes...you almost have to make that move.

There's going to be more growing pains on the OL again for sure, but I think someone with some damn sense on how to run a pro football offense can work around that. Quick passes working the seams and run the offense through Matt Forte early on...I think by mid- October we can have, at the least, a more competent offense with consistent line play along with more efficient quarterbacking.

Then you really open up that playbook and surprise the hell out of Dom Capers.
 

MakeMyDay

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Here is how ProFootballFocus formulates their signature stat known as pass blocking efficiency.


Again they already took into account attempts when they came up with their rating.

You also need to consider that Webb pass protected in more games than Cutler attempted passes because Cutler missed one and a half games in 2012 with his injury.

Jason Cambell att 51 Passes and was sacked 6 times...Which is more than 1 in 10 drop backs...Which is pretty sucky...

Doesn't help your case at all...

Bushrod has played in a very successful offense; actually one of the best in the NFL over the past few seasons...Webb has not even come close...

Bushrod will be playing in that very same offensive scheme that he played in NO...Webb has no experience in the WC scheme.

It is even questionable that Webb will be the starter...Webb is not a lock at RT at all...He is playing for a roster spot...

So to say Webb is basically the same as Bushrod is laughable
 

DaaBears

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Well then. That changes the perspective, doesn't it?

Yes, that is massively more passing attempts, explains a lot. I guess a bit on the other side though, in my opinion, Drew Brees seems pretty dam good at reading a defense, and moving well before the pressure comes, and has a very quick release.
 

BearsFan51

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Y'all have excel and the attempts are listed on the chart, stop bitching and just do the math

It doesn't matter now, this was an argument to have before free agency even started. It's a settled matter, Emery decided that Bushrod was an upgrade over Webb and spent the money accordingly. You can argue Profootballfocus metrics all day long and you cite that as facts, you can consider pass attempts, percentages, hits, hurries all of it...

You'll still wind up with a vast majority of Bears fans who hate J'Marcus Webb and think 2012 was his worst season and cite Jermon Bushrod's two Pro Bowls as a reason that this was the better move.
 

Bearfanfromnewjersey

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3rd most overall, 2nd most of any 16-game starter.

Rotoworld just cited some PFF stats in a report on some Charger scrub:

"Harris made nine starts as a 2012 UDFA, allowing ten sacks and grading out 80th-of-80 in Pro Football Focus' offensive tackle ratings. Only Jonathan Martin (47) and Jermon Bushrod (46) allowed more than Harris' 44 QB hurries -- and Martin and Bushrod both started 16 games."

linky

If anybody has a subscription to PFF's premium stats, I would be interested to hear how Bushrod's total disruptions number (instead of just hurries) ranks against other OTs for 2012 and years prior.

It's scary, and I hope this isn't the case, but this could give more credence to the theory that Bushrod was a 'system' OT whose deficiencies were covered up by a QB who excells at quick reads/releases...

how many times did Brees pass vs the rest of the league QBs passing? more attempts = more chances for hurries. without even looking at the numbers i am sure if you his average i bet its pretty decent compared to others
 

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By the way I watched the film on Webb's seven sacks from a year ago, the All-22 tape end zone camera view and two of Webb's seven sacks allowed according to PFF were Cutler's fault for holding onto the football too long.

One Cutler holds onto it for nearly 5 seconds and then is sacked by Matthews, Week 2 Green Bay.

The second questionable Webb sack of the seven he allowed was Webb pushed Ware beyond the pocket a near 180 degrees from Ware's starting point, and as Cutler started to scramble away, Ware caught him.

So while PFF may give Webb seven sacks allowed, I give Webb five sacks allowed which is equal to the total allowed by Bushrod.

Also Bushrod's highest graded game in pass protection, came against the Broncos and in nearly every instance Bushrod received double team help or chip help from an OT, TE or 'back.

Bushrod is not a CLEAR upgrade over Webb. But if he can play better than he did in '12 and Webb plays well on the right side, like he did in 2012 the pass protection on the edges will have improved.
And yet Bushrod has been a Probowl LT the last 2 yrs. An honor that counts player and coach voting as 2/3 of the total.
 

BearsFan51

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Jason Cambell att 51 Passes and was sacked 6 times...Which is more than 1 in 10 drop backs...Which is pretty sucky...

Doesn't help your case at all...

Bushrod has played in a very successful offense; actually one of the best in the NFL over the past few seasons...Webb has not even come close...

Bushrod will be playing in that very same offensive scheme that he played in NO...Webb has no experience in the WC scheme.

It is even questionable that Webb will be the starter...Webb is not a lock at RT at all...He is playing for a roster spot...

So to say Webb is basically the same as Bushrod is laughable

Webb is locked in at right tackle NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE is going to compete with Webb at RT.

Not the rookie Mills, not Scott and not Britton who has played in like 16 games in four seasons in the NFL.

Since everyone is already talking about ProFootballFocus and their stats I long ago compiled the ProFootball Focus metrics.

The only people who think Bushrod is a clear upgrade over Webb are Chicago Bears fans...everyone else is pointing and laughing at the Bears for the money the invested in Bushrod. Do a quick web search and there's plenty of articles mocking the Bears for signing Bushrod.
 

BearsFan51

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From Football Outsiders article:

The added name value could have eventually "Jermon Bushrod"-ed him to a couple of Pro Bowls.

I'll explain. To "Jermon Bushrod" means to play with a really good quarterback and guard next to you, so that instead of looking like the merely above-average tackle you are, you make the Pro Bowl. (Hmm ... starting to realize Bears fans aren’t going to love this article.) Long is not going to a strong unit. He’s going to an offensive line that has been bad for a while and could very well be bad again. I don’t think fans account for how much it helps an offensive lineman to play next to other good offensive linemen.
 

BearsFan51

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And yet Bushrod has been a Probowl LT the last 2 yrs. An honor that counts player and coach voting as 2/3 of the total.

Bushsrod didn't make the Pro Bowl last year he's been to two Pro Bowl and there isn't a single analyst that doesn't consider his two Pro Bowls a fluke.

By the way Nathan Vasher once made it to the Pro Bowl as well, guess that means he's a great CB the Bears should look into re-singing since they're in need of CB depth.
 

botfly10

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Webb is locked in at right tackle NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE is going to compete with Webb at RT.

Not the rookie Mills, not Scott and not Britton who has played in like 16 games in four seasons in the NFL.

Since everyone is already talking about ProFootballFocus and their stats I long ago compiled the ProFootball Focus metrics.

The only people who think Bushrod is a clear upgrade over Webb are Chicago Bears fans...everyone else is pointing and laughing at the Bears for the money the invested in Bushrod. Do a quick web search and there's plenty of articles mocking the Bears for signing Bushrod.

How can you say that after one mini camp session?

Also, I think your characterization of the media mocking the bears is inaccurate. Every article I've seen has described the OL as improved, including bushrod.
 
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remydat

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In terms of pass block efficiency JWebb ranked 36th out of 52 offensive tackles and Bushrod was 44th out of 52. In 2011, Busrod was 20th out of 58 while Webb was 48th out of 58. In 2010, Bushrod was 26th out of 56 and Webb was 56th out of 56.

In the formula hits and hurries count 3/4 and sacks count as 1. And the rankings are of Tackles who played at least 50% of their teams pass blocking snaps.
 

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Does it take the amount of pass plays the offense ran on the year and obvious passing situation into account? Saints threw a lot and had to throw to catch up due to their horrid defense. Stats are only the beginning. The story carries more power.
 

MakeMyDay

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Webb is locked in at right tackle NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE is going to compete with Webb at RT.

Not the rookie Mills, not Scott and not Britton who has played in like 16 games in four seasons in the NFL.

Since everyone is already talking about ProFootballFocus and their stats I long ago compiled the ProFootball Focus metrics.

The only people who think Bushrod is a clear upgrade over Webb are Chicago Bears fans...everyone else is pointing and laughing at the Bears for the money the invested in Bushrod. Do a quick web search and there's plenty of articles mocking the Bears for signing Bushrod.

Why in the world bring in all these tackles if Webb is such a lock?

Webb BTW played LT for the last 2 seasons...

So he was so good that now all the sudden he is moved the other side with very little experience at and in a system he is unfamiliar??? Sound logic there...Not

But yet he is somehow a lock...Pfffffffftttt
 

remydat

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Does it take the amount of pass plays the offense ran on the year and obvious passing situation into account? Saints threw a lot and had to throw to catch up due to their horrid defense. Stats are only the beginning. The story carries more power.

Bushrod gave up 8 hits and 46 pressures. That total is 54 and you multiply it by 3/4 to get 40.5. Add to that the 4 sacks and you get 44.5 total. He played 698 snaps so if you subtract 44.5 from 698 you get 653.5.

So what Pass Blocking Efficiency says is that Bushrod did not allow pressure in 93.6% of his snaps (653.5/698). So it does take into account the number of pass blocking snaps although it does not take into account whether that pass play was an obvious passing down or not. If you did the same calculation for Webb for 2012 you get his PBE as 94%. Hence why he was ranked 36th and Busrod 44th.
 

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