Bears head coaching job will be coveted.

xer0h0ur

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My favorite meme is with that gif and it says "I had fun once. It was awful."

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I think Tommy Lee Jones spent his lifetime smiling quota playing Two-Face in Batman Forever.
 

gilder121

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All that post amounts to is that you don't like Fox and because you don't like Fox then he should be gone since in your estimation the rebuild is behind schedule. Well the fact is that if you believe the rebuild is behind schedule then the blame falls squarely on Ryan Pace since he is the man calling the shots on what chicken shit Fox has at his disposal to make chicken salad out of it. Fox is clearly a defensive leaning head coach. The defense between Fox and Fangio has been nearly entirely rebuilt in those 3 years (present year included). So how then has Fox really failed as the rebuilding head coach? As I am sure you know, its impossible for Pace to have turned over the roster completely in less time. 10+ years of atrocious drafting isn't wiped in a mere 3 off-seasons.

So which is it? Is the rebuild behind schedule? Or do you just want to make excuses to get the outcome you want? If the rebuild is behind schedule, which of course is hardly Fox's fault, can you please go ahead and identify in the past three off-seasons and drafts where Pace went wrong or how he could have done better so that the Bears weren't behind schedule.
Ask yourself from 3 years ago. "Where should the Bears be in 3 years in the future?" The answer should be playoffs. This is the Not For Long league and just about the entire team has been turned over since that time. Maybe there is still a chance for the playoffs, and in that case, Fox probably saves his job. As far as the rebuild that is clearly a combination of drafting (Pace) and development (Fox). To blame only one or the other would be disingenuous.

Personally, I love the defensive progress. The offense needs significant improvement. As far as QB, I'm not satisfied with the gameplanning around Trubisky. I'm not so caught up in run pass as I am overall efficiency of the offense, and while personnel is 1A, play calling to me is 1B.

The two main issues for me in terms of being so confident in firing Fox are timing and ability to get strong coordinators to develop Trubisky. Fox has always been a coordinator driven head coach, so when you get in a position where you have a very short leash, and have a defensive coordinator that seems to want out, what should you be expecting to get on the market? Probably not much.

So yes, I pretty much have made up my mind. But I don't think that's a bad thing. It's being proactive, not reactive. Fox doesn't deserve another year if he takes a team from 3-15 to 8-8. We need to consider what is in the best interest of the team long term, and in my opinion, that clearly is launching him.
 
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DC

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  • Two young runningbacks leading a top 5 run game
  • A top 10 defense on the rise
  • A rookie quarterback taken #2 overall


We should have our pick of the litter if the McCaskey's don't lowball everyone.

Schwing.
 

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So Cowher? Gruden? As a Bears fan, I prefer a coach who yells a lot. That's pretty much the only requirement.

We haven't had a HC with personality since DaCoach.
 

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In 2019....

So all the sudden in the last few days you seem like you've become somewhat convinced that Fox will still be here in 2018. What is it that has made you think this?
 

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I agree and he would deserve an extension. He has had his team playing hard every game. He has had to deal with 100% player turnover in 3 years. It is hard to be consistent under these circumstances. The Bears could easily be 5 and 3. I say keep Fox and MINIMIZE more change and disruption in the organization. If youre going to get rid of any body, get rid of Ted Phillips who is singly responsible for how poor the team became.
 

Noonthirtyjoe

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I want Fox gone and a offensive minded HC that can be here with Trubs a long long time. But I don't think Fox will be fired.
 

WindyCity

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I think it's interesting that most here want fox gone, but on the bears unofficial Reddit (probably bigger than this place) the tone is completely the opposite.

Personally, I want him gone because of Trubisky. Fox is a product of his coordinators, and while he has a history of getting very good coordinators, I have to feel with Loggains that his luck may have run out. PLUS, if he is retained, he is still most likely a 1 year coach whether or not he gets a one year extension, so even if he were to fire Loggains, it seems unlikely that he is able to make a phone call and get the next young top O coordinator.

On the other hand, you have an opportunity here with a good young defense, and a developmental quarterback. Plus you can assume that help in terms of weapons will be coming. I think this offseason should be the time to act. Fire fox, and get someone that has an established track record of offensive success, and/or quarterback development.

Don't squander another year of Trubisky. I'm comfortable saying that another year of Fox will do just that. When Pace drafted a Quarterback, he got a lot of equity with me. When looking at the Y1-Y2 jumps of last year's draft class, I have to be confident that Pace isn't tone deaf enough to keep a coach that is unlikely to allow a young QB to realize his potential.

My guess is the Reddit crowd is not old enough to have lived through all the useless QBs and defensive head coaches.

Those of us with a decade plus of play defense, pound the rock, and go 7-9, are probably a little more ready to pair a talented young QB with a legit NFL offensive mind.
 

Black Rainbow

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I want Fox gone and a offensive minded HC that can be here with Trubs a long long time. But I don't think Fox will be fired.

How often do the Bears hire offensive minded coaches? What were the results the last time they did?
 

WindyCity

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So all the sudden in the last few days you seem like you've become somewhat convinced that Fox will still be here in 2018. What is it that has made you think this?

I really value what Hoge and Jahns say and both have been pretty adamant that Fox is not gone.

Add that to the more blow hard guys like bernstien, Mulligan and Haugh also backing off and I think the tea leaves are breaking that direction.

The schedule also gets way easier, 8-8 is legitimately in the sites, and Trubisky will show improvement because the defense we will play are going to be bad.
 

gilder121

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I agree and he would deserve an extension. He has had his team playing hard every game. He has had to deal with 100% player turnover in 3 years. It is hard to be consistent under these circumstances. The Bears could easily be 5 and 3. I say keep Fox and MINIMIZE more change and disruption in the organization. If youre going to get rid of any body, get rid of Ted Phillips who is singly responsible for how poor the team became.

1) I have no idea what Ted Phillips leaving will do unless you are insinuating that he hancuffs spending and then only would seem to matter if it coincides with the release of Pace and/or Fox. Am I missing something? Do you think he has a significant impact on day to day moves?

2) The 5-3 thing. People need to stop saying that. The Bears lost 2 games by a significant margin, won one game by a significant margin, and played close in 5 others. 3-5 is about where they deserve to be. The obvious counter is that if they didn't win two games in overtime, they would be 1-7. I don't think either of those stats means anything, but it is encouraging that they have played some good teams close.

3)Most teams turn over the vast majority of their roster in a 3 year timeframe. This is not unique.
 

xer0h0ur

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Ask yourself from 3 years ago. "Where should the Bears be in 3 years in the future?" The answer should be playoffs. This is the Not For Long league and just about the entire team has been turned over since that time. Maybe there is still a chance for the playoffs, and in that case, Fox probably saves his job. As far as the rebuild that is clearly a combination of drafting (Pace) and development (Fox). To blame only one or the other would be disingenuous.

Personally, I love the defensive progress. The offense needs significant improvement. As far as QB, I'm not satisfied with the gameplanning around Trubisky. I'm not so caught up in run pass as I am overall efficiency of the offense, and while personnel is 1A, play calling to me is 1B.

The two main issues for me in terms of being so confident in firing Fox are timing and ability to get strong coordinators to develop Trubisky. Fox has always been a coordinator driven head coach, so when you get in a position where you have a very short leash, and have a defensive coordinator that seems to want out, what should you be expecting to get on the market? Probably not much.

So yes, I pretty much have made up my mind. But I don't think that's a bad thing. It's being proactive, not reactive. Fox doesn't deserve another year if he takes a team from 3-15 to 8-8. We need to consider what is in the best interest of the team long term, and in my opinion, that clearly is launching him.

I'll preface this by saying that of course all of this is merely my interpretation and opinion of the past and present. Probably should have started by saying that before.

IMO that 3 year expectation is a fallacy born from fans seeing other teams make a turnaround from below average to contender. Further amplified by (someone correct me here if I am remembering this incorrectly) Pace arrived to Chicago and never dropped the "rebuilding" term as he really should have from the get go. He began his roster turnover by dismantling the offense which left a lot of fans going "what in the actual fuck?" since they didn't see it coming. It rubbed some the wrong way (present company included) and really kinda started things off on the wrong foot for the fans. Subsequent cuts, trades and failures to re-sign players only further marked that he was here to completely and utterly blow the team up and rebuild it.

Having said all that, I personally can't remember an example of a single team that nearly 100% rebuilt their roster from top to bottom (Long, Fuller, Leno and O'Donnell are the only holdovers pre-Pace) in three years and were playoff contenders. My memory isn't exactly the best so if someone can give examples of this please do so.

Mind you, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't particularly have the highest faith in Fox per say. I really was peeved at Fox and Pace for a while there until I realized the Bears were really going long game on this one with a complete roster overhaul. At which point I became realistic with the fact it was going to become way worse before it got better. I still have my reservations about Fox being the guy who is capable of taking a team over the hump. I didn't really have doubts about his ability to change the locker room culture and be the rebuild guy. Hell, I still have my reservations about whether or not Pace is going to be that guy either since the next off-season and draft is going to be ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL (and I can't possibly emphasize this enough) because he is in the unenviable position of having to make many decisions about player retention, player replacement and rewarding his draft picks that have earned a 2nd contract. A lot of money is going to come off the books and he is going to have a shit ton of cap space to maneuver this mine field. He's going to be under a microscope though for sure.

In summary, I don't particularly disagree with the premise of Fox's time being over and the want or need to replace him with someone else for the remainder of the rebuild headed concurrently into Trubisky's development. I just don't agree with the way you framed it by scapegoating Fox. I think Fox did his job as much as people may not want to give him the credit for it or maybe because they dislike how conservative he is or how bad he is with timeouts or challenges. He ate a shit sandwich in terms of roster talent and injuries for a hot second. So to bring it full circle I do believe going from 3-13 to 8-8 is a big deal all things considered.
 

xer0h0ur

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1) I have no idea what Ted Phillips leaving will do unless you are insinuating that he hancuffs spending and then only would seem to matter if it coincides with the release of Pace and/or Fox. Am I missing something? Do you think he has a significant impact on day to day moves?

2) The 5-3 thing. People need to stop saying that. The Bears lost 2 games by a significant margin, won one game by a significant margin, and played close in 5 others. 3-5 is about where they deserve to be. The obvious counter is that if they didn't win two games in overtime, they would be 1-7. I don't think either of those stats means anything, but it is encouraging that they have played some good teams close.

3)Most teams turn over the vast majority of their roster in a 3 year timeframe. This is not unique.

#3 is where you're markedly off base. Bears didn't just turn over the vast majority of their roster. They turned over an astounding majority of their roster. As I previously mentioned only 4 Bears draft picks remain pre-Pace.
 

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#3 is where you're markedly off base. Bears didn't just turn over the vast majority of their roster. They turned over more than just the majority of their roster. As I previously mentioned only 4 Bears draft picks remain pre-Pace.

We have also had 5 or 6 starting QBs in the last year and a half. Who besides Belichick could do anything with that.
 

gilder121

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To be expected with a regime change, which normally correlates to inheriting a bad roster. Off the top of my head, Bears are probably about 2 remaining playmakers short of most regime changes, but that also frees up more salary cap for FA spending.
 

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while the team has gotten me somewhat interested again, despite the terrible hiring of john fox, by putting together a D and drafting a potential franchise QB, leaving trubs development going foward in the hands of fox and his staff would certainty erase any good will.
 

xer0h0ur

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while the team has gotten me somewhat interested again, despite the terrible hiring of john fox, by putting together a D and drafting a potential franchise QB, leaving trubs development going foward in the hands of fox and his staff would certainty erase any good will.

Ehhhh, maybe. Take my pulse again on this issue after the next free-agency and draft when we have a better idea of what the roster shakes out to. There is a possibility, albeit a slim one IMO, where the offensive roster actually improves enough on paper to where you can make the argument that Fox's conservative coaching might become a detriment. The team isn't there yet though.
 

gilder121

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Ehhhh, maybe. Take my pulse again on this issue after the next free-agency and draft when we have a better idea of what the roster shakes out to. There is a possibility, albeit a slim one IMO, where the offensive roster actually improves enough on paper to where you can make the argument that Fox's conservative coaching might become a detriment. The team isn't there yet though.

Yeah, the only issue I see is that the decision on Fox needs to be made well before we know what the roster will be. We should be expecting that there are at least a couple of more offensive weapons, but so far it seems like pace has had difficulty finding these guys.
 

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I really value what Hoge and Jahns say and both have been pretty adamant that Fox is not gone.

Add that to the more blow hard guys like bernstien, Mulligan and Haugh also backing off and I think the tea leaves are breaking that direction.

The schedule also gets way easier, 8-8 is legitimately in the sites, and Trubisky will show improvement because the defense we will play are going to be bad.

So we have to keep Fox and don't even get a top draft pick......strike two.
 

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I really value what Hoge and Jahns say and both have been pretty adamant that Fox is not gone.

Add that to the more blow hard guys like bernstien, Mulligan and Haugh also backing off and I think the tea leaves are breaking that direction.

The schedule also gets way easier, 8-8 is legitimately in the sites, and Trubisky will show improvement because the defense we will play are going to be bad.

What about Dowell Loggains? Will the Bears at least bring in a young offensive coordinator to potentially take over the show?
 

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