Truth be Told - Bears have some Talent. And SHIT Coaching.

dabears70

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Three years into the rebuild and the majority of people connected to the Bears (fans, beat reporters, media) believe we are a long way from being competitive with a roster full of holes. All this in the context of decades of futility, poor ownership decisions, bad hires and draft wastelands.

You exist outside of this consensus, and it is an overwhelming consensus and not just a few nut job meatballs that you can dismiss on an internet forum. You and Teddy have faith that Pace is building this the right way (through the draft, as if there is any other way lol). I give you credit at least for realising that Pace needs to hit in free agency in the off season. I have nothing against people taking a contrarian view, each to their own. But Teddy in particular repeatedly picks the most ludicrous Pace Hater comment he can find and attacks that rather than the more thoughtful criticisms.

I was listening yesterday to a guy who I respect enormously, Louis Riddick, telling me we are light years behind the Giants in terms of the appeal to a HC. This is a team that has been an unmitigated disaster this year but has a legitimately talented young roster, with actual superstars (OBJ, Collins) as opposed to nice pieces (Floyd, Howard). He evaluates Pace’s record as patchy and thinks he is seen as at best neutral and at worst a sitting duck GM with limited job security. This tallies with my own evaluation.

I feel that you both look at the Bears roster in isolation rather than comparing it to the league. I like Floyd, Howard, Cohen, Shaheen, Trevathan, Hicks (love me some Hicks). I can see the potential in Trubisky, Jackson and a couple of others. But as a roster, this is currently a bottom 6 roster in terms of talent. There are no superstars. Howard and Floyd are probably the closest we have. Even the Browns have Garrett. The Jets have Williams and Adams. The Giants have OBJ and Collins. The Colts have Luck and Hooker. The Texans have Watson and Hopkins. The 49ers are the only other superstar-less team I can think of and we just lost to them at home.

We have no elite talent, three or four very good players (Howard, Hicks, Trevathan, Floyd) and some young players with potential. Can you see the difference?


So you needed Louis Riddick to tell you that the Giants job is more appealing then the Bears job? They spent like $200 mil on their defense and have ODB, S.Shephard and E.Engram for Eli to throw to. Hell yes they're more appealing....lol.
 

PeterMbangala

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So you needed Louis Riddick to tell you that the Giants job is more appealing then the Bears job? They spent like $200 mil on their defense and have ODB, S.Shephard and E.Engram for Eli to throw to. Hell yes they're more appealing....lol.

I didn't need him to tell me. It's just interesting hearing him talk about where the Bears are at, including talent levels in the roster.

I'll ask that question again. Which teams have a worse roster than us right now. For the purposes of the discussion, I'll assume that Trubisky turns into a very good but not elite QB.

Browns (although they have one more elite player than us, they suffer from the same historic draft problems and don't have a QB).

Jets (they have Adams and Williams but no QB and fewer good to get good players than we do).

49ers (despite losing to them and the likely emergence of Jimmy G, I will entertain the idea we have a better roster than them).

Any other teams that you think are in a worse spot than us talent wise right now?
 

PeterMbangala

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This is not a playoff team waiting for better coaching. This is a poor team that can be better with better coaching but it lacks the overall talent necessary to win consistently in the NFL.

Likewise, I don't see any honest evaluation can come to a different conclusion. I'm not a Pace hater by any means but just look at the roster. We could go into the Bengals game without a single healthy difference maker on offense or defense.
 

Teddy KGB

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They don't and won't get it TKGB. They don't think all the bad drafting before Pace got here has anything to do with why his rebuild is taking longer then we hoped it would take. All they see is losses but don't understand all the things that went into the reasons for those losses. It's a hell of a lot more then what Pace has done in free agency and the draft.
Well said. True confederacy of dunces here. Also doesn't help the media is whipping people into a frenzy to sell papers.

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PeterMbangala

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Well said. True confederacy of dunces here. Also doesn't help the media is whipping people into a frenzy to sell papers.

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Even Ignatius J Reilly doesn't agree with you.
 

Teddy KGB

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From a pure talent point of view, name me six rosters you think are worse than the Bears right now.
Browns, 49ers, Giants, Redskins, Colts, Cardinals.

" but some of those teams have much better records than us!" You say.

And I reply with "that's because they have much better coaching."

I truly wonder how many on this board are keeping up with the supposed name players and other teams. Luck looks anything but the number one overall pick he was supposed to be.

Talent on the Redskins and Cardinals is on a downturn.

What is truly hilarious is that for every playmaker you think you can name on the other team, I can bet you that there's someone who is a fan of that team making the same argument you are, and using guys like Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen and Akeem Hicks to prove his point that the Bears have more Talent than their hometeam.

You asked, I answered. Now you have to disagree with me because otherwise your argument is shot. I know how the song and dance goes. It's boring and cliche. Try another one.

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Teddy KGB

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Nobody has ever said the players have no talent. You and bears70 have to stop reading that into every post. FFS, they would not be in the Pros if they were not talented. The problem is that they are not as talented as you and bears70 think they are. If they were, it would be reflected on the field and if you watch this team, you will see that they suck and are one of the worst in the league. This is fact.

Once again, if a non-biased NFL scout were to rank our players in comparison to the others in the league, the Bears would score very low.
That's pretty funny that you should say that. It's because I have been listening to the opinions of unbiased Scouts and coaches and other staff as being reported throughout the season that I think the Bears aren't as bad as you claim they are.

The number one thing that all the professionals are questioning is what the hell the coaching staff is doing. Running a predictable offense, Player Development not happening. Not getting rookie Playmakers with potential out on the field.

The pros that you mention have shown a spotlight straight on the coaching and laying mulch of the issues at their feet.

So it's funny that you should invoke them since it doesn't appear you're paying attention to them.
 

PeterMbangala

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Me: name me six worse rosters talent wise than us right now.

DaBears/Teddy: LALALA, media frenzy, there is some talent, straw men, LALALA, cupboard was bare, draft your way to victory, free agency is for suckers.

Listen you guys can deflect all you want. But the roster is not good. It is saved from being abject because Pace is good at drafting. Not great, but good. But he has still had three years and we've won 12 games and there are huge holes in the roster.

He gets to pick his coach, another high draft pick (his 4th top 12 pick I believe), another crack at free agency with a ton of cap space and his QB in his second year. If we go 5-11 or similar next year, there are no excuses left.
 

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Browns, 49ers, Giants, Redskins, Colts, Cardinals.

" but some of those teams have much better records than us!" You say.

And I reply with "that's because they have much better coaching."

I truly wonder how many on this board are keeping up with the supposed name players and other teams. Luck looks anything but the number one overall pick he was supposed to be.


Talent on the Redskins and Cardinals is on a downturn.

What is truly hilarious is that for every playmaker you think you can name on the other team, I can bet you that there's someone who is a fan of that team making the same argument you are, and using guys like Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen and Akeem Hicks to prove his point that the Bears have more Talent than their hometeam.

You asked, I answered. Now you have to disagree with me because otherwise your argument is shot. I know how the song and dance goes. It's boring and cliche. Try another one.

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Oh my gosh it is as if you literally are trying to go out of your way to discredit your credibility level in literally every posting you make. LUCK looks bad? Like he isn't even playing very well like he was expected to (or at all this year?) And other people don't watch or keep track of other players or teams or news headlines about starting QBs being IRd? Ignoramus.
 

HeHateMe

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@TEDDY KFC tell us more about how bad Andrew Luck is playing this year versus expectations due to his draft status please.

Thanks.
 

PeterMbangala

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Browns, 49ers, Giants, Redskins, Colts, Cardinals.

" but some of those teams have much better records than us!" You say.

And I reply with "that's because they have much better coaching."

I truly wonder how many on this board are keeping up with the supposed name players and other teams. Luck looks anything but the number one overall pick he was supposed to be.

Talent on the Redskins and Cardinals is on a downturn.

What is truly hilarious is that for every playmaker you think you can name on the other team, I can bet you that there's someone who is a fan of that team making the same argument you are, and using guys like Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen and Akeem Hicks to prove his point that the Bears have more Talent than their hometeam.

You asked, I answered. Now you have to disagree with me because otherwise your argument is shot. I know how the song and dance goes. It's boring and cliche. Try another one.

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You think the Giants and the Redskins have better rosters than us? Hilarious.

Colts have a similar roster with a far superior QB and an elite rookie and potential superstar in Malik Hooker. Luck hasn’t even played this year but is an elite QB.

Cardinals will be in full rebuild soon but I would bet money they turn it around in less than 3 years.
 

HeHateMe

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@TEDDY KFC by the way for your information the current year is 2017 and you were right actually I apologize because Andrew Luck literally has zero stats this year and his quarterback rating is literally nonexistent.
 

HeHateMe

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You think the Giants and the Redskins have better rosters than us? Hilarious.

Colts have a similar roster with a far superior QB and an elite rookie and potential superstar in Malik Hooker. Luck hasn’t even played this year but is an elite QB.

Cardinals will be in full rebuild soon but I would bet money they turn it around in less than 3 years.

He actually posted that Giants and Redskins have worse rosters than the Bears but probably only listed them in his list because he could only name six NFL teams "period" and gambled that they might be worse despite them being much better.
 

PeterMbangala

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Redskins have been a playoff team or thereabouts for three seasons.

The reason for this is not because Jay Gruden is a coaching mastermind. It is because their roster is better.

I cannot even get started with the Giants. They had the only coach who is more incompetent than Fox this year and have three legit NFL superstars on their roster and a slew of talented up and coming youngsters. The fact they used FA to supplement their roster is not cheating. It is what happens in the NFL.
 

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@TEDDY KFC tell us more about how bad Andrew Luck is playing this year versus expectations due to his draft status please.

Thanks.

Funny he says this

I truly wonder how many on this board are keeping up with the supposed name players and other teams. Luck looks anything but the number one overall pick he was supposed to be.

when he openly admits to not watching name players from other teams:

Yeah frankly that's what I get for commenting when I haven't seen him play. Just remembered another thread where the people were bitching about him sucking this year.

I'll just shut up about Amari Cooper now ( and no, not shutting up for good).

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So he now talks about Luck not living up to a draft position when he was one of the best QB's in the league before his OL killed him and has been injured for two years.

I can't wait for Teddy KFC to respond with "Hi Novak"
 

number51

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Redskins, Cardinals.

What a pant load.

Cardinals
Patrick Peterson
Larry Fitzgerald
David Johnson
Tyrann Mathieu
Chandler Jones

Redskins
Jordan Reed
Trent Williams
Brandon Scherff
Ryan Kerrigan
Kirk Cousins
Josh Norman

The Bears are one of the 3 or 4 least talented teams in the NFL. Every team has 'some talent' just like every team has blocking sleds. Big fucking deal.
 

Monsieur Tirets

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do they have a lot of talent... no. but think about how bad the Os were when lovie was here. and despite not being a great coach by any means, he still managed to do a far better job than fox.

hell think about the teams before lovie and how shit they were. and the coaches still managed to do better than worst ever.
 

PeterMbangala

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do they have a lot of talent... no. but think about how bad the Os were when lovie was here. and despite not being a great coach by any means, he still managed to do a far better job than fox.

hell think about the teams before lovie and how shit they were. and the coaches still managed to do better than worst ever.

Unfortunately Lovie's 2008-11 offense don't play in our division. When we look to evaluate our roster and broader predicament, we need to stop looking to the recent past and say...

"It was worse under Trestman/Emerge
"The cupboard was bare
"I remember the 70s and 90s, the were really putrid."

We need to assess where we are relative to other teams. And we are close to the bottom in any metric or evaluation of talent.
 

Chicago4Life

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Three years into the rebuild and the majority of people connected to the Bears (fans, beat reporters, media) believe we are a long way from being competitive with a roster full of holes. All this in the context of decades of futility, poor ownership decisions, bad hires and draft wastelands.

You exist outside of this consensus, and it is an overwhelming consensus and not just a few nut job meatballs that you can dismiss on an internet forum. You and Teddy have faith that Pace is building this the right way (through the draft, as if there is any other way lol). I give you credit at least for realising that Pace needs to hit in free agency in the off season. I have nothing against people taking a contrarian view, each to their own. But Teddy in particular repeatedly picks the most ludicrous Pace Hater comment he can find and attacks that rather than the more thoughtful criticisms.

I was listening yesterday to a guy who I respect enormously, Louis Riddick, telling me we are light years behind the Giants in terms of the appeal to a HC. This is a team that has been an unmitigated disaster this year but has a legitimately talented young roster, with actual superstars (OBJ, Collins) as opposed to nice pieces (Floyd, Howard). He evaluates Pace’s record as patchy and thinks he is seen as at best neutral and at worst a sitting duck GM with limited job security. This tallies with my own evaluation.

I feel that you both look at the Bears roster in isolation rather than comparing it to the league. I like Floyd, Howard, Cohen, Shaheen, Trevathan, Hicks (love me some Hicks). I can see the potential in Trubisky, Jackson and a couple of others. But as a roster, this is currently a bottom 6 roster in terms of talent. There are no superstars. Howard and Floyd are probably the closest we have. Even the Browns have Garrett. The Jets have Williams and Adams. The Giants have OBJ and Collins. The Colts have Luck and Hooker. The Texans have Watson and Hopkins. The 49ers are the only other superstar-less team I can think of and we just lost to them at home.

We have no elite talent, three or four very good players (Howard, Hicks, Trevathan, Floyd) and some young players with potential. Can you see the difference?

I don't see there being much of an issue with the or lack of appeal for a HC job unless the person pace is targeting is a former HC. Anyone not being a HC is going to want to get a promotion and be a HC, i dont really see them turning down the opportunity to become a head coach just because its the bears or the browns or the giants etc...The giants job may have more appeal because most know that the organization has been run like a well oiled machine. Being from NY you hear a lot of things but if you really break it down is the giants job more appealing? yes and no imo - eli is clearly not the answer however the mara's dont feel the same way and so eli having at least another 2yrs left on his deal he will be the starter. In order for eli to succeed the oline needs to be able to provide a relatively high level of protection something 4/5 olinemen cannot do. There's a reason reese was fired along with mcadoo, constantly neglected the oline and when he did draft 1st rounder flowers whos been a bust, apple has been a bust given his 1st rd draft pedigree, and the lb's are below average and still no running game to speak of. So while the giants may have obj and collins who are studs they have no run game, poor pass protection, and a rapidly declining qb for the next 2 yrs. Not exactly a huge upgrade on the bears situation.

I agree the bears do not have superstars and its unfortunate...however pace has drafted well in the last two and i feel he will draft one in this upcoming draft in the form of ridley/key/chubb/fitzpatrick...

Seems a little premature to be calling adams, hooker even garrett superstars...adams played well, hooker is out for the season and garrett has played well at times.
 

number51

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do they have a lot of talent... no. but think about how bad the Os were when lovie was here. and despite not being a great coach by any means, he still managed to do a far better job than fox.

hell think about the teams before lovie and how shit they were. and the coaches still managed to do better than worst ever.

Would you like to compare this current steaming pile of junk to Lovie's 2006 Bears, have at it.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2006_roster.htm

That D was great, ST was special, the O was average 15th in the league, this year the O ranks 32 out of 32. That team was loaded with talent, this team, please, just stop.
 

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