Bears are 1st in the NFL with 32 sacks as a team

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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Um no, they played Cover 3 on one of the 3 plays. The other 2 plays he had safety help but committed PI when the S was there to intercept and then failed to guard Watkins and carry him to the deep S on the other play. Neither of those were Cover 3. They were single hi where the S was in position to help Vildor if Vildor had done his job.

You also are not understanding. I never said he had safety help on Cover 3. Safeties in Cover 1, 2, 3 or 4 help the guys underneath by covering a deep zone. I am telling you in crunch time Cover 3 is a standard call to prevent teams throwing deep because it has 3 deep zones. It is illogical to expect Vildor to have safety help when he is not an underneath guy but responsible for one of the 3 deep zones.

In essence Vildor is the deep help on that play. He is suppose to help the underneath guys if someone gets deep against them on the sidelines. So he failed in providing the deep help. That is the point. You are effecfively saying Bears can never play Cover 3 or 4 because Cover 3 and 4 always have the CBs covering a deep zone ie they are the deep help not being helped by the deep help.

On each of those 3 plays 10/11 essentially did their job and the scheme had people in position to make a play. Then Vildor decided to committ PI, abandon his deep coverage zone and then fail to guard his man underneath and carry him to the deep S. 3 plays and 3 fucks ups of different varieties.

Lol Vidlor is not an underneath guy? Huh, he isn't much of an outside guy nor a DEEP guy either. lol

And the DEEP ball was the very thing that needed to be protected against by the scheme and concept for that particular drive as a FG after short - medium passes gives them nothing.

Desai has NO responsibility for the gamewinning drive vs. BAL?

Is that your implication?

Is that your takeaway?

Desai has no responsibility for the soft tackling, out of position guys attacking wrong lanes or missing assignments?

Good stuff as always, remy.

You are unique and one day, you will be in the CCS Hall of Fame I have no doubts (zero sarcasm there by the way).
 

Warrior Spirit

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The big picture also says they are near the bottom of the league in blitzing because they cant afford to blitz with a black hole at 2nd CB. The more you blitz the more pressure you create.
Again, comes down to pressure. Are you getting it or not? Keep it simple and straight forward. And we've all seen Bears generate more pressure without blitzing much in the past anyway. It's always been the Bears way.
 

remydat

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Lol Vidlor is not an underneath guy? Huh, he isn't much of an outside guy nor a DEEP guy either. lol

And the DEEP ball was the very thing that needed to be protected against by the scheme and concept for that particular drive as a FG after short - medium passes gives them nothing.

Desai has NO responsibility for the gamewinning drive vs. BAL?

Is that your implication?

Is that your takeaway?

Desai has no responsibility for the soft tackling, out of position guys attacking wrong lanes or missing assignments?

Good stuff as always, remy.

You are unique and one day, you will be in the CCS Hall of Fame I have no doubts (zero sarcasm there by the way).

SMH. Again not following along. I am saying in a Cover 3, Vildor plays a deep 3rd not underneath so by definition he is the deep help not someone that gets deep help. In a Cover 3, the 2 CBs are the deep help outside the hashes and one S is the deep help inside the hashes.

In Cover 4, you typically have the two CBs and 2 S as the deep help. So again, I am saying if you always want Vildor to have S help then it means you cant play Cover 3 and Cover 4 as those coverages require the CBs to be the deep help not play underneath and receive deep help.

The odd thing then is those Coverages are precisely the Coverages you play to protect against the deep pass late because they have more people deep than Cover 1 or Cover 2.
 

remydat

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Again, comes down to pressure. Are you getting it or not? Keep it simple and straight forward. And we've all seen Bears generate more pressure without blitzing much in the past anyway. It's always been the Bears way.

Yes they have when Mack and Hicks were in top form and not banged up with Hicks now going to miss the majority of the season.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Yes they have when Mack and Hicks were in top form and not banged up with Hicks now going to miss the majority of the season.
No truth to that. Bears didn't get to be #30 in pressures overnight, especially after having a good game statistically against the Lamar-less Ravens. Keep searching the excuse bag. Gotta have something better in that old sack.
 

remydat

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No truth to that. Bears didn't get to be #30 in pressures overnight, especially after having a good game statistically against the Lamar-less Ravens. Keep searching the excuse bag. Gotta have something better in that old sack.

Hicks had 53 pressures last year. He has 10 this year. Mack had 59 last year. He has 22 this year.

The difference in pressures year over year is almost entirely the result of Hicks being a non factor as an aging and washed up player and Mack battling injuries all year prior to being shut down.

Both those guys had about 530 pass rush snaps last year. This year Mack has 176 and Hicks has 130 with only 5 games left in if this were a 16 game season. So year over year their snaps are way down so we are relying on lesser players to generate a pass rush

So not rocket science. Last year we got 1060 snaps from Mack and Hicks. This year we only got 306 thru 11 games. We will end the year with about half the snaps from Mack and Hicks this year. Cant get pressure if you arent on the field.
 
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Warrior Spirit

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Hicks had 53 pressures last year. He has 10 this year. Mack had 59 last year. He has 22 this year.

The difference in pressures year over year is almost entirely the result of Hicks being a non factor as an aging and washed up player and Mack battling injuries all year prior to being shut down.
Oh boo hoo. Players all over the NFL digress year to year. Mack wasn't even top 20 in pressures last year. Hicks wasn't even top 30.

Believe it or not teams do manage to get more pressure without depending on the same 2 or 3 players or even blitzing a lot. For example, Bills #2 in pressure %. They don't have a single player who has more than 20 pressures. And they only blitz about half the time the league leading Bucs and Dolphins do.
 

pablovi

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Oh boo hoo. Players all over the NFL digress year to year. Mack wasn't even top 20 in pressures last year. Hicks wasn't even top 30.

Believe it or not teams do manage to get more pressure without depending on the same 2 or 3 players or even blitzing a lot. For example, Bills #2 in pressure %. They don't have a single player who has more than 20 pressures. And they only blitz about half the time the league leading Bucs and Dolphins do.
He fails to understand that, he thinks all teams have great players everywhere in defense.

And his only excuse is Vildor sucks, that’s it one guy!

And again, he fails to recognize that pass defense has nor been an issue, they’re top 10 in the league in that department, don’t know how he just ignores it.

And if Desai know Vildor sucks, why is he making him responsible of one deep zone? Alone?

He’s only making excuses because he created the Desai for HC thread.

The fact is, this is a bottom 5 defense, and that’s on the coach.
 

remydat

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Oh boo hoo. Players all over the NFL digress year to year. Mack wasn't even top 20 in pressures last year. Hicks wasn't even top 30.

Believe it or not teams do manage to get more pressure without depending on the same 2 or 3 players or even blitzing a lot. For example, Bills #2 in pressure %. They don't have a single player who has more than 20 pressures. And they only blitz about half the time the league leading Bucs and Dolphins do.

Going from 53 to 22 and 59 to 10 pressures is a huge decline.

Those again are PFF numbers. Mack was 7th in pressures for edge players last year and Hicks was 9th for interior lineman.

Bringing up the Bills is funny. Hughes, Oliver, Rousseau, and Star are 1st round draft picks. AJ Epy wad projected as a 1st rounder but went in the 2nd. They generate pressure because 4 of their top 6 pass rushers are 1st rounders and a 5th is a guy that fell to the 2nd round.
 
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remydat

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He fails to understand that, he thinks all teams have great players everywhere in defense.

And his only excuse is Vildor sucks, that’s it one guy!

And again, he fails to recognize that pass defense has nor been an issue, they’re top 10 in the league in that department, don’t know how he just ignores it.

And if Desai know Vildor sucks, why is he making him responsible of one deep zone? Alone?

He’s only making excuses because he created the Desai for HC thread.

The fact is, this is a bottom 5 defense, and that’s on the coach.

You fail to recognize Vildor had S help on 2 of the 3 plays in question.

It is also stupid to say Vildor cant be put in a Cover 3 when you are protecting the deep pass. If you want more guys covering deep zones you have to use CBs.

This argument is so absurd. On one hand you guys are saying Desai should have played max coverage but then when he plays a max coverage like Cover 3 with 3 deep guys, you are saying he shouldnt play that since Vildor was one of the deep guys.

You cannot have 3 or 4 guys covering a deep zone without having a CB being one of those guys.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Going from 53 to 22 and 59 to 10 pressures is a huge decline.

Those again are PFF numbers. Mack was 7th in pressures for edge players last year and Hicks was 9th for interior lineman.
PFF way more subjective with QB hurries than PFR. Basically, you just have to have a clear path to the QB for PFF, even if it would take the defender 10 minutes to get there. LMAO. And this stuff happens to all teams where they lose key players and/or those players decline quickly. Sorry just another sad excuse no matter how much of a hard on PFF has had for Mack.
 

remydat

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PFF way more subjective with QB hurries than PFR. Basically, you just have to have a clear path to the QB for PFF, even if it would take the defender 10 minutes to get there. LMAO. And this stuff happens to all teams where they lose key players and/or those players decline quickly. Sorry just another sad excuse no matter how much of a hard on PFF has had for Mack.

You are just making stuff up. A hurry is subjective period. If you have documentation on how PFR determines it vs PFF then please link to it.

But yes if 5 of your top 6 pass rushers are 1st or 2nd rounders like the Bills then you can get pressure without relying on 2 guys.

It is almost like other teams like the Bills realize talent matters.
 
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Warrior Spirit

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Bringing up the Bills is funny. Hughes, Oliver, Rousseau, and Star are 1st round draft picks. AJ Epy wad projected as a 1st rounder but went in the 2nd. They generate pressure because 4 of their top 6 pass rushers are 1st rounders and a 5th is a guy that fell to the 2nd round.
The generate pressure cause they play as a team. There is no 1 or 2 players expected to carry the load. That's how the Patriots have always done it as well. They have Judon now, who has a lot, but the other 80 or so pressures come from those who'd be considered lesser players and that's been the norm for them throughout.
 

Warrior Spirit

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You are just making stuff up. A hurry is subjective period. If you have documentation on how PFR determines it vs PFF then please link to it.

But yes if 5 of your top 6 pass rushers are 1st or 2nd rounders like the Bills then you can get pressure without relying on 2 guys.

It is almost like other teams like the Bills realize talent matters.
FFS, both sources tell you how they do it. PFR considers it a hurry when the QB is forced to throw ball earlier than intended or QB is forced to leave the pocket by an oncoming rusher while PFF defines it as a defender having a clear path to the QB.

So they don't have the individual stats but are great anyway due to draft position? LOL, OK. What about Patriots, Vikings, Browns and those other 25+ teams getting more QB pressure than the Bears?
 

remydat

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The generate pressure cause they play as a team. There is no 1 or 2 players expected to carry the load. That's how the Patriots have always done it as well. They have Judon now, who has a lot, but the other 80 or so pressures come from those who'd be considered lesser players and that's been the norm for them throughout.

Yes easy to play as a team when you relying on 1st and 2nd rounders like the bills rather than late round draft picks like the Bears outside of Quinn, Mack and Hicks.

And agreed Desai is not Bellichek. Glad we agree on that.

FFS, both sources tell you how they do it. PFR considers it a hurry when the QB is forced to throw ball earlier than intended or QB is forced to leave the pocket by an oncoming rusher while PFF defines it as a defender having a clear path to the QB.

So they don't have the individual stats but are great anyway due to draft position? LOL, OK. What about Patriots, Vikings, Browns and those other 25+ teams getting more QB pressure than the Bears?

PFF defines a hurry as when a pass rusher hurries a QB. Your claim it is a hurry if the guy is 10 yards away is just bullshit. You actually have to have hurried the QB ie forced him to get rid of the ball or flush him out of the pocket.

They are guys that were talented enough to be drafted high. 3 of those guys are 24 or younger. Also not sure what you mean by not great individual stats. Mack has 22 pressures.

1st rounder Rousseau starts has 21. He is backed up by AJ Espy who has 18. 1st rounder Hughes starts and has 31. He is backed up by Addison ( the only non-1st or 2nd rounder) who has 25.

Then inside it is 1st rounder Oliver who has 26 compared to Hicks 10.

So their pressure stats are comparable to Mack and much better than Hicks so not sure how you conclude they dont have great stats. You are the one saying consistent pressure is what matters and this collection of largely 1st and 2nd rounders blows Hicks out of the water production wise and are pretty much comparable to a hobbled Mack this year.

The main difference seems to be that the Bears are too reliant on late round draft picks.

As for the other teams. Already said Desai is not BB so yes the greatest coach in the NFL can do something Desai cant.

Bringing up the Browns is laughable. They literally have 2 No 1 overall picks in Garrett and Clowney. They also have another first rounder in McKinley and a 2nd rounder in McDowell.

Vikes have 168 pressures per PFF and Bears have 160. They also give up more points and yards than the Bears despite a better offense and got anally fucked by the Niners without Griffen. Not sure why you would bring them up. That D is not actually that good.
 
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Warrior Spirit

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Yes easy to play as a team when you relying on 1st and 2nd rounders like the bills rather than late round draft picks like the Bears outside of Quinn, Mack and Hicks.

And agreed Desai is not Bellichek. Glad we agree on that.



PFF defines a hurry as when a pass rusher hurries a defender. Your claim it is a hurry if the guy is 10 yards away is just bullshit. You actually have to have hurried the QB ie forced him to get rid of the ball or flush him to get out of the pocket.

They are guys that were talented enough to be drafted high. 3 of those guys are 24 or younger. Also not dure what you mean by not great individual stats. Mack has 22 pressures.

1st rounder Rousseau starts has 21. He is backed up by AJ Espy who has 18. 1st rounder starts and has 31. He is backed up by Addison ( the only non-1st or 2nd rounder) who has 25.

Then inside it is 1sr rounder Oliver who has 26 compared to Hicks 10.

So they pressure stats are comparable to Mack and much better than Hicks so not sure how you conclude they dont have great stats. Tou are the one saying consistent pressure is what matters and this collection og largely 1st and 2nd rounders blows Hicks out of the water production wise and are pretty much comparable to a hobnled Mack this year.

The main difference seems to be that the Bears are too reliant on late round draft picks.
PFF has to be doing something way different. The fact they gave both Mack and Hicks way more pressures obviously shows they're being more liberal in some manner.

Back when I subscribed to them, years ago before they started charging $200 for what used to be $30, they defined it as I said. Maybe changed recently. certainly still doesn't make sense. You said they gave Mack 59 pressures last year while PFR gave him 31. And gave him 22 this year while PFR gave him 9. Obviously PFF is far more liberal in giving credit for pressures. It's as if they give them away as one would candy on Halloween. Is it just different players they favor for whatever reason? Or you made a mistake and gave the total combined tackles number as the total pressures number.
 

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