I’m eating crow on Daboll

[remydat]

That is indeed possible, and I think he might have been in line for comeback player of the year if he would have stayed healthy.

I was actually hoping that the Bears might pick him up when Tampa let him go, because he was at least exciting to watch.

And Yes I know this is counter to the entire argument that I have been presenting, so.....

I said the same thing about Winston because while he has always been turnover prone, 2019 felt like more of an anomaly to me more than anything. Again things just seemed to snowball on him from an Int perspective.

 

[modo]

Look at the candidates body of work. Not just some select playoff game.

 

[Mdbearz]

Um no. Again this is what you said.




Why did you mention the bold if it was not an attempt to try and eliminate his garbage time TDs and yards? The only reason to say the bold is to suggest those stats don't count. I simply used your own argument against you.

I said that they were garbage time TDs and yard because that entire season, Tampa would be on the highlight reels for making this amazing comeback by scoring a flurry of points, just to fall short, because Winston would throw a pick.....the definition of garbage time.

You on the other hand wanted to point to a "select" few games when the INTs were really bad, and say that without those games the offense would only have an imaginary stat.....

Bottom line Tampa got better when Brady came to town and Winston got better when he left Tampa.

 

[remydat]

I said that they were garbage time TDs and yard because that entire season, Tampa would be on the highlight reels for making this amazing comeback by scoring a flurry of points, just to fall short, because Winston would throw a pick.....the definition of garbage time.

You on the other hand wanted to point to a "select" few games when the INTs were really bad, and say that without those games the offense would only have an imaginary stat.....

Bottom line Tampa got better when Brady came to town and Winston got better when he left Tampa.

You said it to discount those yards and TDs correct? And you offered no evidence just your recollections which appear to be proven wrong by the actual data.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2019 Regular Season NFL Schedule - ESPN

ESPN has the full 2019 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Regular Season NFL schedule. Includes game times, TV listings and ticket information for all Buccaneers games.

www.espn.com

Which games do you see them piling up garbage time stats. Be specific. Again in the 3 losses by more than 7 points he threw for 4 TDs and 12 Ints. The only game of the 6 they lost by 7 points or less where they went into the 4th quarter trailing was the Saints and they were down by 7. So I have no idea what you are calling garbage time.

 

[Mdbearz]

You said it to discount those yards and TDs correct? And you offered no evidence just your recollections which appear to be proven wrong by the actual data.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2019 Regular Season NFL Schedule - ESPN

ESPN has the full 2019 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Regular Season NFL schedule. Includes game times, TV listings and ticket information for all Buccaneers games.

www.espn.com

Which games do you see them piling up garbage time stats. Be specific. Again in the 3 losses by more than 7 points he threw for 4 TDs and 12 Ints. The only game of the 6 they lost by 7 points or less where they went into the 4th quarter trailing was the Saints and they were down by 7. So I have no idea what you are calling garbage time.

Well shit, I stand corrected, after looking at the box scores, Tampa was actually a much better scoring team in the first half of just about every single game that season (2019).

I must be getting old, because instead of having garbage time, close finishes, it appeared that they struggled to close out the game after having a good start in the first half....

Still not sold on Lefty, but if the Bears hired him, I would begrudgingly support him....

Hell, if Winston could change his spots, maybe Brady can rub off on BL.

 

[remydat]

Well shit, I stand corrected, after looking at the box scores, Tampa was actually a much better scoring team in the first half of just about every single game that season (2019).

I must be getting old, because instead of having garbage time, close finishes, it appeared that they struggled to close out the game after having a good start in the first half....

Still not sold on Lefty, but if the Bears hired him, I would begrudgingly support him....

Hell, if Winston could change his spots, maybe Brady can rub off on BL.

And that is fine if you are not sold on him. He is certainly not a perfect candidate by any means.

 

[Mdbearz]

And that is fine if you are not sold on him. He is certainly not a perfect candidate by any means.

Even if I am not sold on him, it doesn't mean a damn thing, because I'm not making that call.

I do think that he represents a similar type of approach that they used to hire Nagy, So I tend to think that the Bears FO will be gun shy about doing it again....

 

[DammitFullerTurnUrHead!]

They averaged 28.6 points a game under Winston. The Ints are obviously not good but the O was still putting up points despite all the Ints.

Also are you going to show Daboll's record as OC before he got Allen?

“Before he got allen” as if JA was a polished product before daboll. “Before he developed Allen”, would be more fitting.

 

[remydat]

“Before he got allen” as if JA was a polished product before daboll. “Before he developed Allen”, would be more fitting.

Allen's numbers improved when he got Diggs and Beasley and gained experience. Do you think Allen would have sucked if someone else competent was OC? I dont.

 

[run and shoot]

run and shoot said

Leftwich had a top 5 offense without Brady. look it up

I think you mean Bruce Arians had a top-five offense without Brady, and Leftwich was there playing the Nagy role.

Arians turned over playcalling to Leftwich a couple yrs ago. Leftwich made adjustments to accommodate Winston and Brady. If u look at Leftwich's total resume i.e. from college to NFL OC.....there's really no comparison.

I'm gonna post a thread that contains a 12min vid of the kind of leadership Leftwich brings to the table. Be on the look out for it.

 

[run and shoot]

Yes let's look it up, please....
Arizona (interim OC) - 9 Games, 2-7 Record, 10-TDs to 9 INTS, fired at the end of the year.....

Tampa 2019 (Winston as QB) 16 Games, 7-9 Record, 33 TDs (plus 15 Rushing TDs), 30 INTs, why were they 7-9 with 48 TDs? You obviously never watched those games....

His experience WITHOUT Brady, he has a record of 9-16 with his QBs throwing for 43 TDs and 39 INTs, in case you are not aware, that is bad, real bad....

Tampa 2020 (Brady at QB), 16 Games, Record 11-5, 43TDs, 12INTs, Went on to win the SuperBowl......

Bottom Line, before Brady came into his life, his pass happy offense was resulting in a terrible record and at the end of the day, Wins and losses are all that matter.....

The point was... Leftwich had a top 5 offense without Brady. Now to your point......."at the end of the day, Wins and losses are all that matter.."
Give Lovie Smith, Jim Caldwell and Brian Flores a call. Let 'em know this

 

[ZenBear34]

How many defensive TDs did they score in 2018. You can't just take off the defensive TDs in one year and not the other so do you numbers exclude the defensive TDs in 2018?

I didn't, they scored 2 in 2018 and 6 in 2019. So subtracted 14 from their points in 2018 and 42 in 2019.

 

[satchice]

run and shoot said





Arians turned over playcalling to Leftwich a couple yrs ago. Leftwich made adjustments to accommodate Winston and Brady. If u look at Leftwich's total resume i.e. from college to NFL OC.....there's really no comparison.

I'm gonna post a thread that contains a 12min vid of the kind of leadership Leftwich brings to the table. Be on the look out for it.

Simple question for you.

Do you consider the offense that Tampa Bay is running is that either
A) Bruce Arians offense that Leftwich is calling the plays for, or is it
B) Byron Leftwich’s offensive playbook and and he is also calling the plays?

I don’t think anyone is questioning Leftwich is leader ship skills, or ability to relate to players that he coaches.

I also don’t think anyone is questioning Bruce Arians ability to turn a bad team around and get the most out of the players on his roster.

When I see people posting look at The improvement on the offense before and after Tom Brady and the other elite skilled position players had in Tampa Bay had more to do with the injection of talent to the roster rather than the playcalling.

 

[Canth]

Out of pure curiosity, what is it about mentioning DaBoll that instantly turns a thread into a pissing match about Leftwich?

 

[Bust]

social media is harping on the fact there is only 1 #blm headcoach in the NFL.

I see the bears changing thangs and hiring minorities at both headcoach and gm positions . . .

Make it happen Tanesha!

 

[remydat]

I didn't, they scored 2 in 2018 and 6 in 2019. So subtracted 14 from their points in 2018 and 42 in 2019.

So more points despite worse QB play.

Simple question for you.

Do you consider the offense that Tampa Bay is running is that either
A) Bruce Arians offense that Leftwich is calling the plays for, or is it
B) Byron Leftwich’s offensive playbook and and he is also calling the plays?

I don’t think anyone is questioning Leftwich is leader ship skills, or ability to relate to players that he coaches.

I also don’t think anyone is questioning Bruce Arians ability to turn a bad team around and get the most out of the players on his roster.

When I see people posting look at The improvement on the offense before and after Tom Brady and the other elite skilled position players had in Tampa Bay had more to do with the injection of talent to the roster rather than the playcalling.

Who was elite before 2019? Evans and thats it. Fournette and Jones are not elite. Godwin had never hit 1k yards before 2019 so not sure how one can claim he was elite. He blew up in 2019 not before.

 

[satchice]

So more points despite worse QB play.



Who was elite before 2019? Evans and thats it. Fournette and Jones are not elite. Godwin had never hit 1k yards before 2019 so not sure how one can claim he was elite. He blew up in 2019 not before.

I thought you were suggesting that the offense improved from 2018 to 2019, and you somehow credited that to Leftwich's involvement instead of the obvious injection of talent.

I'll ask a question for you. Does Leftwich have the easiest job of the 32 OC jobs in the NFL? I mean the system is in place, he has a HOF QB with 21 years of experience and not showing any signs that he is physically and mentality slowing down, the guy probably has more knowledge of the offense and what the opposing defense is doing then Leftwich himself. Then if Leftwich has any problems or needs to make an adjustment has has Bruce Arians who has been developing this playbook since 2007 to advise him.

 

[run and shoot]

And Top of the League (that mean he was the worst)in Interception, also a fact.

And yet when the Same QB went to another team, Saints, his Interceptions went from a 1.1 ratio (33-30) under Leftwich to 4.6 ratio (14-3) under Carmichael in 7 games.

Quick note....u do know Winston had Lasik eye surgery prior to joining the Saints. And the Saints run a different offense than Tampa

 

[run and shoot]

I don’t understand how people are so high on Leftwich when he works with the greatest QB to ever play the game.

id be hugely concerned that he’s just riding the coat tails of Brady. That and he’s very young in his career.

Out of pure curiosity, what is it about mentioning DaBoll that instantly turns a thread into a pissing match about Leftwich?

Here's where it started >>>> #3

 

[Mdbearz]

The point was... Leftwich had a top 5 offense without Brady. Now to your point......."at the end of the day, Wins and losses are all that matter.."
Give Lovie Smith, Jim Caldwell and Brian Flores a call. Let 'em know this

Yeah Lovie should have been given support with the offense and never fired in my opinion, but that is another discussion.

My point of view is a high powered offense is completely negated if you are turning the ball over that much, and those turn over led to short fields for the opposition, so they were able to outscore them resulting in losses.