OFFICIAL Offseason Rumors, Signings, and Shenanigans

pdxbearsfan · Feb 10, 2022

Dejo said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491512981900996608

I'm taking the OL from Central Michigan in # 2 and the LB from Wyoming or Mecthie the WR from Ala in # 3

modo · Feb 10, 2022

remydat said:
They are plenty of viable candidates. The issue is most of that is on the defensive side of the ball. HCs are skewed toward offense and there needs to be more minorities on the offensive side of the ball.

so a lack of viable candidates you say

pdxbearsfan · Feb 10, 2022

wickerkat said:
I think overall he did a good job. I give the overall hirings in general, from GM to HC on down a solid B, with upside to be an A. But that's just me. What I like is that Flus immediately started addressing the issues that Nagy/Pace seemed to ignore for years, and has put his full support behind Fields.

Yes this.

WookieOnRitalin · Feb 10, 2022

wickerkat said:
I hear you, but what do you do about racism in the NFL then? We have to address the issue in some way.

I don't own a football team, but I can talk about my experiences in publishing as a CEO, President, Editor, and author. If a press puts out books only by SWM, if their anthologies have 20 stories and they are ALL by SWM, they are probably racist. You have to actively work hard to stay 100% SWM. The first obstacle is women—are you publishing stories by women. They're about 50% of the population, so you should see female authors, no matter the genre. The second variable is ethnicity—are you publishing work by authors of color. It's going to be a lower percentage, but you'd expect to see SOME authors of color. And then you have across the LGBTQ+ rainbow, again, lower numbers, but some. Are you publishing authors from outside the USA? It comes down to attracting people TO your press, putting out the words, showing inclusion, and then being open to stories that are not about you or with protagonists that are SWM. The more you read, th more you look around, the more you put the word out, the more diverse your authors.

I think NFL teams are similar, They have to create an environment where minorities are welcome, they have to stand up for their rights (see BLM), and they need to put their money where their mouth is—and hire minorities.

Some teams are doing better than others. I can guarantee you there are owners that do not want a Black GM, a Black HC, and/or a Black QB. Because they're racist. And with such a huge number of Black players PLAYING in the NFL, you can see why they are tired of a lack of representation.

/whew, long rant, sorry

I hear your frustration.

My general view is that you are constantly balancing forces of nature and culture. Tribalism is a powerful driving force in relationship building. Where I see a lot of issues between blacks and whites is finding a way to approach differences in backgrounds and culture. It takes a consorted effort on both sides to make an effort to achieve understanding.

Look at it from a religious perspective. A Christian would have to go to significant lengths to build relationships with Muslims or vice versa. The ease of relationship building tends to move in the path of ease towards who is the more dominating representative within the scenario. Say a Muslim in the rural south versus a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The dominating party would have a traditional advantage where the other party would have a more difficult time assimilating into cultures where the power distribution is centered around those who hold a fundamental difference in cultural belief/practice.

In the NFL, whites hold the power so it makes them the giving party where the blacks lack power so it makes them the earning party. So this is why I hold the belief that the pathways for each being different because it would stand to reason that the pathways for coaching/promotion for whites would be easier considering that racial group has more established power within the NFL.

To me, this centers around cultural differences between blacks and whites where there seems to be stark differences in culture between both. Some of it is sourced around several factors. There are likely more black players who do not finish their college degrees comparatively to their white counterparts. This could influence the candidates who want to get into coaching and aptitude for doing so.

Blacks still represent the lowest percentage of high school graduates and yes, I would agree that a reason for that is also due to poverty.

There's a moment where Cuba Gooding Jr. and James Marshall are having a conversation after Marshall helped Gooding escape from a gang fight in the 1990 film, Gladiator. Cuba Gooding did not understand why a whitey like James Marshall would want to help a black kid like him. Then while looking at his hand Gooding remarks, "I thought poverty was a black disease," to which Marshall replies, "Not just..."

I find that line so simple in perspective. It is insight how poverty can have a lot of negative consequence and that it can impact many different people.

Those who rise out of it tend to place a higher priority on getting their children educated and through college. This is clearly demonstrated in immigrant behavior, but seems to fall behind in the black community. I have read on this over the years with many confounding factors including poverty, single parent households, gang violence, and poor educational facilities (either in terms of access like busing or just the facilities not having a good tax base to pay for good instructors, materials, etc).

It seems that there is a higher percentage of black men who play in the NFL who come from these backgrounds vs their white counterparts. In so doing, there is a stark difference in backgrounds and general relationship building.

Most people tend to spend time with people who are at similar stages of life with similar values for how they approach life and what is important.

Circling back to the NFL, I have a higher belief that teams value results and intelligence. They operate on those levels. All candidates should believe that when looking for a job that these teams will be evaluating based on those levels. I see a greater issue with nepotism than racism in the NFL. It's a buddy system, rather than a racist institution. The problem with the buddy system is that it highlights one unalienable fact.

Groups will select relationships based on general group preferences. In most ethnic scenarios, this plays out as people of similar cultures, ethnicities, etc spending more time together than those who are not of the same ethnitcities, culture, etc.

This has led, to this point, more positions being held by whites due to this concept of preference within racial or ethnic groups. It's not racism necessarily which I believe is an OVERT act and not a collateral one. A white manager of a company may not have a single black employee or may not have a single black friend. Does this make this individual racist? Of course not. Without understanding circumstances, it's difficult to classify situations as racist or not without a notion of intent. This is why I do not buy the racism argument in the NFL since I do not believe there is an "intent" to this current situation.

My general thought is just patience. Eventually the talent will come in and it will be very overwhelming.

Let's take our open Offensive Coordinator position as an example.

Sounds like a great position to put a minority in correct? We need more minorities in OC positions if we expect them to get hired as HCs correct?

I do not remember any real enthusiasm for any OC candidates of color amongst the board. Why? Most of the candidates desired were white. Why? Does this make the Bears, Eberflus, racist? Was it part of the great conspiracy of keeping black coaches out of good positions?

Of course not. It just meant that the current available talent that was hottest was just of a certain ethnic persuasion at this time. As time marches on and blacks become more integrates into coaching trees, there will be greater available candidates.

This just seems like an exercise in patience. We need to see more black OCs be successful and once they are, they will likely get jobs.

As I have said in previous threads, I do not know why Bieniemy does not have a job. Something is just weird there that must be evident when he interviews. From my vantage point, he probably should have been hired somewhere, but I am not in those rooms. Leftwich I understand. He needs to prove it without Brady.

I do not think there is a conspiracy. I also was not overwhelmed by the list of black coaching candidates this cycle nor was most of the board.

remydat · Feb 10, 2022

modo said:
so a lack of viable candidates you say

No. A lack of imagination from NFL teams that are heavily skewed to the offensive side of the ball when it comes to HC and also them funneling minorities to the defensive side of the ball.

You would be right if it was proven that Offensive HCs perform better but not sure that is correct. So part of the problem is NFL teams have an incorrect notion as to what you need to be a successful head coach.

pseudonym · Feb 10, 2022

WookieOnRitalin said:
I hear your frustration.

My general view is that you are constantly balancing forces of nature and culture. Tribalism is a powerful driving force in relationship building. Where I see a lot of issues between blacks and whites is finding a way to approach differences in backgrounds and culture. It takes a consorted effort on both sides to make an effort to achieve understanding.

Look at it from a religious perspective. A Christian would have to go to significant lengths to build relationships with Muslims or vice versa. The ease of relationship building tends to move in the path of ease towards who is the more dominating representative within the scenario. Say a Muslim in the rural south versus a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The dominating party would have a traditional advantage where the other party would have a more difficult time assimilating into cultures where the power distribution is centered around those who hold a fundamental difference in cultural belief/practice.

In the NFL, whites hold the power so it makes them the giving party where the blacks lack power so it makes them the earning party. So this is why I hold the belief that the pathways for each being different because it would stand to reason that the pathways for coaching/promotion for whites would be easier considering that racial group has more established power within the NFL.

To me, this centers around cultural differences between blacks and whites where there seems to be stark differences in culture between both. Some of it is sourced around several factors. There are likely more black players who do not finish their college degrees comparatively to their white counterparts. This could influence the candidates who want to get into coaching and aptitude for doing so.

Blacks still represent the lowest percentage of high school graduates and yes, I would agree that a reason for that is also due to poverty.

There's a moment where Cuba Gooding Jr. and James Marshall are having a conversation after Marshall helped Gooding escape from a gang fight in the 1990 film, Gladiator. Cuba Gooding did not understand why a whitey like James Marshall would want to help a black kid like him. Then while looking at his hand Gooding remarks, "I thought poverty was a black disease," to which Marshall replies, "Not just..."

I find that line so simple in perspective. It is insight how poverty can have a lot of negative consequence and that it can impact many different people.

Those who rise out of it tend to place a higher priority on getting their children educated and through college. This is clearly demonstrated in immigrant behavior, but seems to fall behind in the black community. I have read on this over the years with many confounding factors including poverty, single parent households, gang violence, and poor educational facilities (either in terms of access like busing or just the facilities not having a good tax base to pay for good instructors, materials, etc).

It seems that there is a higher percentage of black men who play in the NFL who come from these backgrounds vs their white counterparts. In so doing, there is a stark difference in backgrounds and general relationship building.

Most people tend to spend time with people who are at similar stages of life with similar values for how they approach life and what is important.

Circling back to the NFL, I have a higher belief that teams value results and intelligence. They operate on those levels. All candidates should believe that when looking for a job that these teams will be evaluating based on those levels. I see a greater issue with nepotism than racism in the NFL. It's a buddy system, rather than a racist institution. The problem with the buddy system is that it highlights one unalienable fact.

Groups will select relationships based on general group preferences. In most ethnic scenarios, this plays out as people of similar cultures, ethnicities, etc spending more time together than those who are not of the same ethnitcities, culture, etc.

This has led, to this point, more positions being held by whites due to this concept of preference within racial or ethnic groups. It's not racism necessarily which I believe is an OVERT act and not a collateral one. A white manager of a company may not have a single black employee or may not have a single black friend. Does this make this individual racist? Of course not. Without understanding circumstances, it's difficult to classify situations as racist or not without a notion of intent. This is why I do not buy the racism argument in the NFL since I do not believe there is an "intent" to this current situation.

My general thought is just patience. Eventually the talent will come in and it will be very overwhelming.

Let's take our open Offensive Coordinator position as an example.

Sounds like a great position to put a minority in correct? We need more minorities in OC positions if we expect them to get hired as HCs correct?

I do not remember any real enthusiasm for any OC candidates of color amongst the board. Why? Most of the candidates desired were white. Why? Does this make the Bears, Eberflus, racist? Was it part of the great conspiracy of keeping black coaches out of good positions?

Of course not. It just meant that the current available talent that was hottest was just of a certain ethnic persuasion at this time. As time marches on and blacks become more integrates into coaching trees, there will be greater available candidates.

This just seems like an exercise in patience. We need to see more black OCs be successful and once they are, they will likely get jobs.

As I have said in previous threads, I do not know why Bieniemy does not have a job. Something is just weird there that must be evident when he interviews. From my vantage point, he probably should have been hired somewhere, but I am not in those rooms. Leftwich I understand. He needs to prove it without Brady.

I do not think there is a conspiracy. I also was not overwhelmed by the list of black coaching candidates this cycle nor was most of the board.

Thanks. Well said.

Mighty Joe Young · Feb 10, 2022

WookieOnRitalin said:
I hear your frustration.

My general view is that you are constantly balancing forces of nature and culture. Tribalism is a powerful driving force in relationship building. Where I see a lot of issues between blacks and whites is finding a way to approach differences in backgrounds and culture. It takes a consorted effort on both sides to make an effort to achieve understanding.

Look at it from a religious perspective. A Christian would have to go to significant lengths to build relationships with Muslims or vice versa. The ease of relationship building tends to move in the path of ease towards who is the more dominating representative within the scenario. Say a Muslim in the rural south versus a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The dominating party would have a traditional advantage where the other party would have a more difficult time assimilating into cultures where the power distribution is centered around those who hold a fundamental difference in cultural belief/practice.

In the NFL, whites hold the power so it makes them the giving party where the blacks lack power so it makes them the earning party. So this is why I hold the belief that the pathways for each being different because it would stand to reason that the pathways for coaching/promotion for whites would be easier considering that racial group has more established power within the NFL.

To me, this centers around cultural differences between blacks and whites where there seems to be stark differences in culture between both. Some of it is sourced around several factors. There are likely more black players who do not finish their college degrees comparatively to their white counterparts. This could influence the candidates who want to get into coaching and aptitude for doing so.

Blacks still represent the lowest percentage of high school graduates and yes, I would agree that a reason for that is also due to poverty.

There's a moment where Cuba Gooding Jr. and James Marshall are having a conversation after Marshall helped Gooding escape from a gang fight in the 1990 film, Gladiator. Cuba Gooding did not understand why a whitey like James Marshall would want to help a black kid like him. Then while looking at his hand Gooding remarks, "I thought poverty was a black disease," to which Marshall replies, "Not just..."

I find that line so simple in perspective. It is insight how poverty can have a lot of negative consequence and that it can impact many different people.

Those who rise out of it tend to place a higher priority on getting their children educated and through college. This is clearly demonstrated in immigrant behavior, but seems to fall behind in the black community. I have read on this over the years with many confounding factors including poverty, single parent households, gang violence, and poor educational facilities (either in terms of access like busing or just the facilities not having a good tax base to pay for good instructors, materials, etc).

It seems that there is a higher percentage of black men who play in the NFL who come from these backgrounds vs their white counterparts. In so doing, there is a stark difference in backgrounds and general relationship building.

Most people tend to spend time with people who are at similar stages of life with similar values for how they approach life and what is important.

Circling back to the NFL, I have a higher belief that teams value results and intelligence. They operate on those levels. All candidates should believe that when looking for a job that these teams will be evaluating based on those levels. I see a greater issue with nepotism than racism in the NFL. It's a buddy system, rather than a racist institution. The problem with the buddy system is that it highlights one unalienable fact.

Groups will select relationships based on general group preferences. In most ethnic scenarios, this plays out as people of similar cultures, ethnicities, etc spending more time together than those who are not of the same ethnitcities, culture, etc.

This has led, to this point, more positions being held by whites due to this concept of preference within racial or ethnic groups. It's not racism necessarily which I believe is an OVERT act and not a collateral one. A white manager of a company may not have a single black employee or may not have a single black friend. Does this make this individual racist? Of course not. Without understanding circumstances, it's difficult to classify situations as racist or not without a notion of intent. This is why I do not buy the racism argument in the NFL since I do not believe there is an "intent" to this current situation.

My general thought is just patience. Eventually the talent will come in and it will be very overwhelming.

Let's take our open Offensive Coordinator position as an example.

Sounds like a great position to put a minority in correct? We need more minorities in OC positions if we expect them to get hired as HCs correct?

I do not remember any real enthusiasm for any OC candidates of color amongst the board. Why? Most of the candidates desired were white. Why? Does this make the Bears, Eberflus, racist? Was it part of the great conspiracy of keeping black coaches out of good positions?

Of course not. It just meant that the current available talent that was hottest was just of a certain ethnic persuasion at this time. As time marches on and blacks become more integrates into coaching trees, there will be greater available candidates.

This just seems like an exercise in patience. We need to see more black OCs be successful and once they are, they will likely get jobs.

As I have said in previous threads, I do not know why Bieniemy does not have a job. Something is just weird there that must be evident when he interviews. From my vantage point, he probably should have been hired somewhere, but I am not in those rooms. Leftwich I understand. He needs to prove it without Brady.

I do not think there is a conspiracy. I also was not overwhelmed by the list of black coaching candidates this cycle nor was most of the board.

This is a thoughtful, thorough, and mostly accurate assessment of the entire situation in the NFL.

I bet a lot of CCS is going to hate it.

remydat · Feb 10, 2022

WookieOnRitalin said:
I hear your frustration.

My general view is that you are constantly balancing forces of nature and culture. Tribalism is a powerful driving force in relationship building. Where I see a lot of issues between blacks and whites is finding a way to approach differences in backgrounds and culture. It takes a consorted effort on both sides to make an effort to achieve understanding.

Look at it from a religious perspective. A Christian would have to go to significant lengths to build relationships with Muslims or vice versa. The ease of relationship building tends to move in the path of ease towards who is the more dominating representative within the scenario. Say a Muslim in the rural south versus a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The dominating party would have a traditional advantage where the other party would have a more difficult time assimilating into cultures where the power distribution is centered around those who hold a fundamental difference in cultural belief/practice.

In the NFL, whites hold the power so it makes them the giving party where the blacks lack power so it makes them the earning party. So this is why I hold the belief that the pathways for each being different because it would stand to reason that the pathways for coaching/promotion for whites would be easier considering that racial group has more established power within the NFL.

To me, this centers around cultural differences between blacks and whites where there seems to be stark differences in culture between both. Some of it is sourced around several factors. There are likely more black players who do not finish their college degrees comparatively to their white counterparts. This could influence the candidates who want to get into coaching and aptitude for doing so.

Blacks still represent the lowest percentage of high school graduates and yes, I would agree that a reason for that is also due to poverty.

There's a moment where Cuba Gooding Jr. and James Marshall are having a conversation after Marshall helped Gooding escape from a gang fight in the 1990 film, Gladiator. Cuba Gooding did not understand why a whitey like James Marshall would want to help a black kid like him. Then while looking at his hand Gooding remarks, "I thought poverty was a black disease," to which Marshall replies, "Not just..."

I find that line so simple in perspective. It is insight how poverty can have a lot of negative consequence and that it can impact many different people.

Those who rise out of it tend to place a higher priority on getting their children educated and through college. This is clearly demonstrated in immigrant behavior, but seems to fall behind in the black community. I have read on this over the years with many confounding factors including poverty, single parent households, gang violence, and poor educational facilities (either in terms of access like busing or just the facilities not having a good tax base to pay for good instructors, materials, etc).

It seems that there is a higher percentage of black men who play in the NFL who come from these backgrounds vs their white counterparts. In so doing, there is a stark difference in backgrounds and general relationship building.

Most people tend to spend time with people who are at similar stages of life with similar values for how they approach life and what is important.

Circling back to the NFL, I have a higher belief that teams value results and intelligence. They operate on those levels. All candidates should believe that when looking for a job that these teams will be evaluating based on those levels. I see a greater issue with nepotism than racism in the NFL. It's a buddy system, rather than a racist institution. The problem with the buddy system is that it highlights one unalienable fact.

Groups will select relationships based on general group preferences. In most ethnic scenarios, this plays out as people of similar cultures, ethnicities, etc spending more time together than those who are not of the same ethnitcities, culture, etc.

This has led, to this point, more positions being held by whites due to this concept of preference within racial or ethnic groups. It's not racism necessarily which I believe is an OVERT act and not a collateral one. A white manager of a company may not have a single black employee or may not have a single black friend. Does this make this individual racist? Of course not. Without understanding circumstances, it's difficult to classify situations as racist or not without a notion of intent. This is why I do not buy the racism argument in the NFL since I do not believe there is an "intent" to this current situation.

My general thought is just patience. Eventually the talent will come in and it will be very overwhelming.

Let's take our open Offensive Coordinator position as an example.

Sounds like a great position to put a minority in correct? We need more minorities in OC positions if we expect them to get hired as HCs correct?

I do not remember any real enthusiasm for any OC candidates of color amongst the board. Why? Most of the candidates desired were white. Why? Does this make the Bears, Eberflus, racist? Was it part of the great conspiracy of keeping black coaches out of good positions?

Of course not. It just meant that the current available talent that was hottest was just of a certain ethnic persuasion at this time. As time marches on and blacks become more integrates into coaching trees, there will be greater available candidates.

This just seems like an exercise in patience. We need to see more black OCs be successful and once they are, they will likely get jobs.

As I have said in previous threads, I do not know why Bieniemy does not have a job. Something is just weird there that must be evident when he interviews. From my vantage point, he probably should have been hired somewhere, but I am not in those rooms. Leftwich I understand. He needs to prove it without Brady.

I do not think there is a conspiracy. I also was not overwhelmed by the list of black coaching candidates this cycle nor was most of the board.

While I agree with this, I would point out this is sort of the difference between institutional racism and individual racism. You are correct that nepotism is a huge issue in the NFL but because most of the decision makers are white that also means nepotism is going to favor white candidates. Over the breadth of an institution like the NFL, that is how you get institutional racism even if the individual decision makers were not intending to be racist. It is not the result of individual racists but the overall structure of the decision makers in the NFL means that over time minorities are disadvantage relative to the majority.

The other benefit of being part of the majority is as a minority candidate you will be forced to have to build relationships with the majority to survive in such a world and so even when nepotism kicks in, it is more likely that a minority candidate will have more majority relationships and hence the nepotism of the minority will still likely include a decent amount of the majority. By contrast you can be a member of the majority and not necessarily have to build a lot of minority relationships and still get thru life.

I think the other thing hidden just below the surface in your post is the types of minority candidates that appeal to the majority. You can be an asshole like Bellichek or even Josh McDaniels and continue to get opportunities. However, I think Flores is correct in that if you are too aggressive or have an edge as a black man, you get the Angry Black Man label. I can think of any number of white coaches who have asshole personalities but when you look around at the black guys that get opportunities Flores is in the minority. It is the soft spoken "nice negroes" to be frank like Art Shell, or Lovie Smith, or Jim Caldwell, or Mike Tomlin. There is still a huge level of discomfort when a black man is too abrasive or too confrontational or whatever you want to call it relative to white men. A black Bill Bellichek would rarely get a 2nd chance. He would have been labeled as too difficult to work with and passed over.

pseudonym · Feb 10, 2022

remydat said:
No. A lack of imagination from NFL teams that are heavily skewed to the offensive side of the ball when it comes to HC and also them funneling minorities to the defensive side of the ball.

You would be right if it was proven that Offensive HCs perform better but not sure that is correct. So part of the problem is NFL teams have an incorrect notion as to what you need to be a successful head coach.

Yep. A lot of people (white owners) used to say that a Black man couldn't be quarterback. They weren't smart enough. Over time that have proved to be wrong, of course. Took time, and somebody taking a shot on a Black QB.

This was in 1969, fifty years ago, in my lifetime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/11/12/eldridge-dickey-black-quarterback-nfl/

Here is a nice list. Interesting they have Kaep #10, and yet nobody would give him a job.

The 10 Best Black Quarterbacks of All Time

In the minds of most people, the NFL's great quarterbacks look like Tom Brady & Joe Montana but Black quaterbacks have revolutionized the game as well.

www.complex.com

Warren Moon did a lot for Black QBs. The first Black QB to be inducted into the HOF. It'll take time. But hopefully we'll get there. Look at the love for Mahomes, Wilson, Cam (in the day), etc.

pseudonym · Feb 10, 2022

remydat said:
While I agree with this, I would point out this is sort of the difference between institutional racism and individual racism. You are correct that nepotism is a huge issue in the NFL but because most of the decision makers are white that also means nepotism is going to favor white candidates. Over the breadth of an institution like the NFL, that is how you get institutional racism even if the individual decision makers were not intending to be racist. It is not the result of individual racists but the overall structure of the decision makers in the NFL means that over time minorities are disadvantage relative to the majority.

The other benefit of being part of the majority is as a minority candidate you will be forced to have to build relationships with the majority to survive in such a world and so even when nepotism kicks in, it is more likely that a minority candidate will have more majority relationships and hence the nepotism of the minority will still likely include a decent amount of the majority. By contrast you can be a member of the majority and not necessarily have to build a lot of minority relationships and still get thru life.

I think the other thing hidden just below the surface in your post is the types of minority candidates that appeal to the majority. You can be an asshole like Bellichek or even Josh McDaniels and continue to get opportunities. However, I think Flores is correct in that if you are too aggressive or have an edge as a black man, you get the Angry Black Man label. I can think of any number of white coaches who have asshole personalities but when you look around at the black guys that get opportunities Flores is in the minority. It is the soft spoken "nice negroes" to be frank like Art Shell, or Lovie Smith, or Jim Caldwell, or Mike Tomlin. There is still a huge level of discomfort when a black man is too abrasive or too confrontational or whatever you want to call it relative to white men. A black Bill Bellichek would rarely get a 2nd chance. He would have been labeled as too difficult to work with and passed over.

Amen, especially your last point, as we're seeing with Flores.

Mighty Joe Young · Feb 10, 2022

WookieOnRitalin said:
I hear your frustration.

My general view is that you are constantly balancing forces of nature and culture. Tribalism is a powerful driving force in relationship building. Where I see a lot of issues between blacks and whites is finding a way to approach differences in backgrounds and culture. It takes a consorted effort on both sides to make an effort to achieve understanding.

Look at it from a religious perspective. A Christian would have to go to significant lengths to build relationships with Muslims or vice versa. The ease of relationship building tends to move in the path of ease towards who is the more dominating representative within the scenario. Say a Muslim in the rural south versus a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The dominating party would have a traditional advantage where the other party would have a more difficult time assimilating into cultures where the power distribution is centered around those who hold a fundamental difference in cultural belief/practice.

In the NFL, whites hold the power so it makes them the giving party where the blacks lack power so it makes them the earning party. So this is why I hold the belief that the pathways for each being different because it would stand to reason that the pathways for coaching/promotion for whites would be easier considering that racial group has more established power within the NFL.

To me, this centers around cultural differences between blacks and whites where there seems to be stark differences in culture between both. Some of it is sourced around several factors. There are likely more black players who do not finish their college degrees comparatively to their white counterparts. This could influence the candidates who want to get into coaching and aptitude for doing so.

Blacks still represent the lowest percentage of high school graduates and yes, I would agree that a reason for that is also due to poverty.

There's a moment where Cuba Gooding Jr. and James Marshall are having a conversation after Marshall helped Gooding escape from a gang fight in the 1990 film, Gladiator. Cuba Gooding did not understand why a whitey like James Marshall would want to help a black kid like him. Then while looking at his hand Gooding remarks, "I thought poverty was a black disease," to which Marshall replies, "Not just..."

I find that line so simple in perspective. It is insight how poverty can have a lot of negative consequence and that it can impact many different people.

Those who rise out of it tend to place a higher priority on getting their children educated and through college. This is clearly demonstrated in immigrant behavior, but seems to fall behind in the black community. I have read on this over the years with many confounding factors including poverty, single parent households, gang violence, and poor educational facilities (either in terms of access like busing or just the facilities not having a good tax base to pay for good instructors, materials, etc).

It seems that there is a higher percentage of black men who play in the NFL who come from these backgrounds vs their white counterparts. In so doing, there is a stark difference in backgrounds and general relationship building.

Most people tend to spend time with people who are at similar stages of life with similar values for how they approach life and what is important.

Circling back to the NFL, I have a higher belief that teams value results and intelligence. They operate on those levels. All candidates should believe that when looking for a job that these teams will be evaluating based on those levels. I see a greater issue with nepotism than racism in the NFL. It's a buddy system, rather than a racist institution. The problem with the buddy system is that it highlights one unalienable fact.

Groups will select relationships based on general group preferences. In most ethnic scenarios, this plays out as people of similar cultures, ethnicities, etc spending more time together than those who are not of the same ethnitcities, culture, etc.

This has led, to this point, more positions being held by whites due to this concept of preference within racial or ethnic groups. It's not racism necessarily which I believe is an OVERT act and not a collateral one. A white manager of a company may not have a single black employee or may not have a single black friend. Does this make this individual racist? Of course not. Without understanding circumstances, it's difficult to classify situations as racist or not without a notion of intent. This is why I do not buy the racism argument in the NFL since I do not believe there is an "intent" to this current situation.

My general thought is just patience. Eventually the talent will come in and it will be very overwhelming.

Let's take our open Offensive Coordinator position as an example.

Sounds like a great position to put a minority in correct? We need more minorities in OC positions if we expect them to get hired as HCs correct?

I do not remember any real enthusiasm for any OC candidates of color amongst the board. Why? Most of the candidates desired were white. Why? Does this make the Bears, Eberflus, racist? Was it part of the great conspiracy of keeping black coaches out of good positions?

Of course not. It just meant that the current available talent that was hottest was just of a certain ethnic persuasion at this time. As time marches on and blacks become more integrates into coaching trees, there will be greater available candidates.

This just seems like an exercise in patience. We need to see more black OCs be successful and once they are, they will likely get jobs.

As I have said in previous threads, I do not know why Bieniemy does not have a job. Something is just weird there that must be evident when he interviews. From my vantage point, he probably should have been hired somewhere, but I am not in those rooms. Leftwich I understand. He needs to prove it without Brady.

I do not think there is a conspiracy. I also was not overwhelmed by the list of black coaching candidates this cycle nor was most of the board.

A couple of notes to help fill this stuff in - Bieniemy has been on HC interviews before (just not this cycle), and the word is that he interviews very poorly. I don't think he even put his name out there this hiring cycle. Its that simple for him.

With regards to your "Sounds like a great position to put a minority in correct? We need more minorities in OC positions if we expect them to get hired as HCs correct?" comment - I ask anyone to look at Lovie Smith from 2007-2009. He let go of or fired a bunch of coaches, and brought in a bunch of black college coaches who never coached in the NFL to give them a chance. To man, they all failed and the Bears really fell off in terms of how well-coached they were. Now, this had nothing to do with the color of the skin of the coaches Lovie brought in, but had everything to do with their qualifications. In the chase for the next hottest thing, people forget that experience matters in the NFL, and bringing in unqualified black coaches to positions where they are clearly over their head will have the reverse of the intended effect, and could ruin it for future black coaches who ARE qualified. Its why fixing the issue CANNOT be a quota thing.

I think if people are impatient with the time it takes for these processes, the NFL should institute a program for minorities that allows coaches (like the ones Lovie hired), to apprentice to an NFL team (and NFL footing the bill) as assistants to the positional coaches - this gets them into those coaching trees, and by being assistants and getting a chance to work with the team, it allows them to build relationships with the coaches on that team, and by "earning their spot", a team can then opt to hire one of those coaches when a positional coach position opens up. You can even incentivize it somehow, by making it so that hires coming out of that program grant an extra draft pick at the back of the 5th or 6th round.

This way, the better candidates can rise naturally, but there is also some encouragement for teams in the form of draft compensation to hire from this pool of talent.

Just an idea on how to accelerate the process.

Mighty Joe Young · Feb 10, 2022

wickerkat said:
Yep. A lot of people (white owners) used to say that a Black man couldn't be quarterback. They weren't smart enough. Over time that have proved to be wrong, of course. Took time, and somebody taking a shot on a Black QB.

This was in 1969, fifty years ago, in my lifetime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/11/12/eldridge-dickey-black-quarterback-nfl/

Here is a nice list. Interesting they have Kaep #10, and yet nobody would give him a job.

The 10 Best Black Quarterbacks of All Time

In the minds of most people, the NFL's great quarterbacks look like Tom Brady & Joe Montana but Black quaterbacks have revolutionized the game as well.

www.complex.com

Warren Moon did a lot for Black QBs. The first Black QB to be inducted into the HOF. It'll take time. But hopefully we'll get there. Look at the love for Mahomes, Wilson, Cam (in the day), etc.

Honestly? Kind of tired of the Kaep stuff. By the time he was out of the league, he had already started to suck for one or two years, I believe, even taking the rest of it out of it.

I do agree with the rest, and Warren Moon for sure was a trail blazer.

Mighty Joe Young · Feb 10, 2022

remydat said:
While I agree with this, I would point out this is sort of the difference between institutional racism and individual racism. You are correct that nepotism is a huge issue in the NFL but because most of the decision makers are white that also means nepotism is going to favor white candidates. Over the breadth of an institution like the NFL, that is how you get institutional racism even if the individual decision makers were not intending to be racist. It is not the result of individual racists but the overall structure of the decision makers in the NFL means that over time minorities are disadvantage relative to the majority.

The other benefit of being part of the majority is as a minority candidate you will be forced to have to build relationships with the majority to survive in such a world and so even when nepotism kicks in, it is more likely that a minority candidate will have more majority relationships and hence the nepotism of the minority will still likely include a decent amount of the majority. By contrast you can be a member of the majority and not necessarily have to build a lot of minority relationships and still get thru life.

I think the other thing hidden just below the surface in your post is the types of minority candidates that appeal to the majority. You can be an asshole like Bellichek or even Josh McDaniels and continue to get opportunities. However, I think Flores is correct in that if you are too aggressive or have an edge as a black man, you get the Angry Black Man label. I can think of any number of white coaches who have asshole personalities but when you look around at the black guys that get opportunities Flores is in the minority. It is the soft spoken "nice negroes" to be frank like Art Shell, or Lovie Smith, or Jim Caldwell, or Mike Tomlin. There is still a huge level of discomfort when a black man is too abrasive or too confrontational or whatever you want to call it relative to white men. A black Bill Bellichek would rarely get a 2nd chance. He would have been labeled as too difficult to work with and passed over.

Honestly? I think there is a segment of the population that decided to call things that weren't actually racist but other problems "institutional racism", not because its actually racism, but more for political reasons.

And I hate that because when politics gets involved, that means they are going to royally fuck up the solution by solving the wrong problems, because they almost always eventually believe their own bullshit, and conflated their pretend issue with the real issue, so they don't even know what's real any more - thus can't solve a real issue because of their flawed perception.

People need to stop politicizing everything and making everything about black vs white. Its an old tried and true tactic to keep us at each others throats while the politicians laugh their way to the bank fucking over both sides in the name of "diversity".