What if I told You the Bears D-line is the 9th best in the NFL?

Anytime45

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9th in Run Stop Win Rate, 21st in Pass Rush Win Rate

Never mind that they're
25th in rushing Y/A
32nd in TDs
30th in yards
32nd in first downs

Some nerd from ESPN says they developed revolutionary new metrics so we should totally not believe anything we see.

Discuss.
 

ZenBear34

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As I already explained, this metric speaks only to the player on the d-line being in the right position, not that they actually make a play. It also doesn't take into account the rest of the defense, just the d-line. So all the metric says is that the d-line is good at beating run blocks. That in no way contradicts the other stats you showed.

The o-line metrics speak specifically to the o-line and wether or not they do their job.
 
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mecha

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As I already explained, this metric speaks only to the player on the d-line being in the right position, not that they actually make a play. It also doesn't take into account the rest of the defense, just the d-line. So all the metric says is that the d-line is good at beating run blocks. That in no way contradicts the other stats you showed.

The o-line metrics speak specifically to the o-line and wether or not they do their job.
spoilers: you will lose this battle
 

mecha

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Some people are so far behind in the race they think they're actually winning.
I have no beef with you, but I disagree with what it is that you believe on this matter. the Bears offensive line has a major talent deficiency. they are not good. their performance is masked by the fact Fields is able to do shit on his own.
 

ZenBear34

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I have no beef with you, but I disagree with what it is that you believe on this matter. the Bears offensive line has a major talent deficiency. they are not good. their performance is masked by the fact Fields is able to do shit on his own.

I have no beef with anyone. I'm just sharing opinions.

I personally believe that Justin Fields is a double edged sword when it comes to this kind of thing. Yes, he does amazing things that covers for some deficiencies around him. But I also think he does things that make the players around him look worse, particularly the o-line. He is not a quick diagnosing get the ball out quarterback, which is the name of the game. He would make a lot of o-lines look worse than they are. He's a very aggressive quarterback, when it works it's great. But there's a cost to that style, and a reason NFL offenses want QBs who get the ball out.

I believe Fields is a good quarterback who is doing truly unique things. He is not good at all by the current standards of the NFL passing game, though he is clearly improving in that regard. NFL offenses are built to get the ball out. Justin Fields is different. As he continues to improve as a passer and diagnosing defenses and getting the ball out and puts that together with his natural talent, aggressiveness and play making ability, he will be an elite NFL quarterback. I wholeheartedly believe that.

But in taking in the whole season, he bears some responsibility, just as gets credit for the incredible things he does. If that makes sense. My point is simply the o-line isn't as far away as most fans think. The receivers suck though.
 

Anytime45

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Some people are so far behind in the race they think they're actually winning.
Funny, that kind of sounds like these fraud analytics that are being posted.

Person clearly behind in the race is actually winning.
 

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As I already explained, this metric speaks only to the player on the d-line being in the right position, not that they actually make a play. It also doesn't take into account the rest of the defense, just the d-line. So all the metric says is that the d-line is good at beating run blocks. That in no way contradicts the other stats you showed.

The o-line metrics speak specifically to the o-line and wether or not they do their job.

So what does it mean? Seems like a stupid thing to post .
 

ZenBear34

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So what does it mean? Seems like a stupid thing to post .

What does what mean? It's a metric which shows how individual and groups fair either blocking or beating blocks.

I like it for o-line. I don't think it's infallible or gospel, but it's an interesting way to break down lineman.

For defense, it's seems less useful imo, because, as I said, it only says wether a player beat a block, not that they actually made a play. Beating a block is only part of playing defensive line, whereas as making a block is 100% of offensive line.

But I find it interesting enough to go back and watch. It's possible the defensive line isn't as bad against the run as they look. It says they're bad at winning in beating pass rush blocks, which matches what everyone sees.
 

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I have no beef with anyone. I'm just sharing opinions.

I personally believe that Justin Fields is a double edged sword when it comes to this kind of thing. Yes, he does amazing things that covers for some deficiencies around him. But I also think he does things that make the players around him look worse, particularly the o-line. He is not a quick diagnosing get the ball out quarterback, which is the name of the game. He would make a lot of o-lines look worse than they are. He's a very aggressive quarterback, when it works it's great. But there's a cost to that style, and a reason NFL offenses want QBs who get the ball out.

I believe Fields is a good quarterback who is doing truly unique things. He is not good at all by the current standards of the NFL passing game, though he is clearly improving in that regard. NFL offenses are built to get the ball out. Justin Fields is different. As he continues to improve as a passer and diagnosing defenses and getting the ball out and puts that together with his natural talent, aggressiveness and play making ability, he will be an elite NFL quarterback. I wholeheartedly believe that.

But in taking in the whole season, he bears some responsibility, just as gets credit for the incredible things he does. If that makes sense. My point is simply the o-line isn't as far away as most fans think. The receivers suck though.
Trevor got the ball out fast and the O-Line looked even worse. How do you explain that away with taking shots at Fields...who you totally think is good, but yet he's the problem?
 

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What does what mean? It's a metric which shows how individual and groups fair either blocking or beating blocks.

I like it for o-line. I don't think it's infallible or gospel, but it's an interesting way to break down lineman.

For defense, it's seems less useful imo, because, as I said, it only says wether a player beat a block, not that they actually made a play. Beating a block is only part of playing defensive line, whereas as making a block is 100% of offensive line.

But I find it interesting enough to go back and watch. It's possible the defensive line isn't as bad against the run as they look. It says they're bad at winning in beating pass rush blocks, which matches what everyone sees.

It's a stupid metric. The Bears D line is trash and the O line is a dumpster. So inserting any metric that may state otherwise is stupid.
If you were tasked with changing these lines for the better, would you bring up this bullshit metric and say to the brass " maybe they aren't as bad as we think?"
So I ask, what's it mean? Why post this? The lines are hot garbage, trash, dookie .
 

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I have no beef with anyone. I'm just sharing opinions.

I personally believe that Justin Fields is a double edged sword when it comes to this kind of thing. Yes, he does amazing things that covers for some deficiencies around him. But I also think he does things that make the players around him look worse, particularly the o-line. He is not a quick diagnosing get the ball out quarterback, which is the name of the game. He would make a lot of o-lines look worse than they are. He's a very aggressive quarterback, when it works it's great. But there's a cost to that style, and a reason NFL offenses want QBs who get the ball out.

I believe Fields is a good quarterback who is doing truly unique things. He is not good at all by the current standards of the NFL passing game, though he is clearly improving in that regard. NFL offenses are built to get the ball out. Justin Fields is different. As he continues to improve as a passer and diagnosing defenses and getting the ball out and puts that together with his natural talent, aggressiveness and play making ability, he will be an elite NFL quarterback. I wholeheartedly believe that.

But in taking in the whole season, he bears some responsibility, just as gets credit for the incredible things he does. If that makes sense. My point is simply the o-line isn't as far away as most fans think. The receivers suck though.
I think that it is very far off in terms of pass protection and the ability handle blitzes. Mustipher is AWFUL. Right tackle is BAD and so is right guard. The ability of Fields to get out of trouble masks the over-all weakness of the offensive line.
 

ZenBear34

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Trevor got the ball out fast and the O-Line looked even worse. How do you explain that away with taking shots at Fields...who you totally think is good, but yet he's the problem?

Is it possible that Fields, who is still developing, is incredibly good at some things, but not good at others? Why does everything have to be binary. It's not: Fields is good=o-line is terrible, or Fields is bad=o-line is great.

And also, the problem with what? The offense has been good! Fields has shown huge improvement over the course of the season. He still has areas he can-and I believe will-improve at. God this place. It's like you're all incapable of holding a complex thought in your heads.

I don't get you people. So defensive. So close minded.

I'll try to say it again. Justin Fields is very good. He's absolutely exceptional at some things. He's still got a ways to go at others. The offensive line, while much maligned, is not as bad as people think. The receivers suck. None of this should be difficult to understand.
 

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I think that it is very far off in terms of pass protection and the ability handle blitzes. Mustipher is AWFUL. Right tackle is BAD and so is right guard. The ability of Fields to get out of trouble masks the over-all weakness of the offensive line.

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Is it possible that Fields, who is still developing, is incredibly good at some things, but not good at others? Why does everything have to be binary. It's not: Fields is good=o-line is terrible, or Fields is bad=o-line is great.

And also, the problem with what? The offense has been good! Fields has shown huge improvement over the course of the season. He still has areas he can-and I believe will-improve at. God this place. It's like you're all incapable of holding a complex thought in your heads.

I don't get you people. So defensive. So close minded.

I'll try to say it again. Justin Fields is very good. He's absolutely exceptional at some things. He's still got a ways to go at others. The offensive line, while much maligned, is not as bad as people think. The receivers suck. None of this should be difficult to understand.


Exactly what are you saying though?
 

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Statistics should be indicative of what they are measuring; when a statistic is so far removed from what is observed it doesn’t really pass muster.

Someone being in the right spot to make a run block doesn’t mean anything if they don’t actually execute; if anything this stat is a positive indication for the coaching staff not the actual play of talent on the field.
 

remydat

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9th in Run Stop Win Rate, 21st in Pass Rush Win Rate

Never mind that they're
25th in rushing Y/A
32nd in TDs
30th in yards
32nd in first downs

Some nerd from ESPN says they developed revolutionary new metrics so we should totally not believe anything we see.

Discuss.

The stat is limited. All it does is tell you whether a defender beat his block for example. It doesn't tell you if he did so by leaving his gap for example. The Bears play a one gap scheme so gap integrity is more important than simply beating your block one on one as if you beat him by abandoning your gap then you leave the D exposed. It also doesn't take into account whether the LBs maintained their gap integrity. As for pass rush, beating your blocker one on one doesn't really matter if you can't finish the play off and the Bears have not finished well in the pass rush at all.

In short, the metric doesn't really tell you anything in isolation. You would need to look at that and then also look at other data and the other data tells us the Bears D line ultimately isn't very good.
 

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