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Scoot26

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Enasic

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Now waiting for Zach's career ending injury

Zach’s a bit different. He had one ACL tear and came back fine. Athleticism was still there. Was able to play through discomfort last season, got scoped, and was fine.
 

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Zach’s a bit different. He had one ACL tear and came back fine. Athleticism was still there. Was able to play through discomfort last season, got scoped, and was fine.
Sure, but how many seasons does he have left before his knees betray him?

Javonte Green is also suffering from Lonzo Ball knees so his career is over too. At least he was paid pennies
 

Enasic

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Sure, but how many seasons does he have left before his knees betray him?

Javonte Green is also suffering from Lonzo Ball knees so his career is over too. At least he was paid pennies
Who knows…I wasn’t the biggest fan of maxing him out in the first place but I understand why AK did it. He could still trade him
 

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Who knows…I wasn’t the biggest fan of maxing him out in the first place but I understand why AK did it. He could still trade him
Sure he could, but he won't
 

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I could see Zach pushing for a trade and forcing his way out. Especially if there is a rift there with Billy.
That's fair enough. I imagine we'll hear his name every single trade deadline until his contract ends or he actually does leave
 

Enasic

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That's fair enough. I imagine we'll hear his name every single trade deadline until his contract ends or he actually does leave
Probably. I’m out on AKME, anyway. Every move/gamble they’ve made has failed miserably.
 

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Probably. I’m out on AKME, anyway. Every move/gamble they’ve made has failed miserably.
I give them credit for trying. If we still had GarPax I doubt the team would be in any better of a position. Murphy's Law has been in full effect, what can you do
 

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I give them credit for trying. If we still had GarPax I doubt the team would be in any better of a position. Murphy's Law has been in full effect, what can you do

I actually think the opposite. I don’t think Garpax would have traded WCJ and 2 1sts for Vuc and I don’t think Pat was a Garpax type of pick either. Garpax overall were historically good at drafting…some misses here and there, but good overall. Hate to beat a dead horse, but think Garpax likely would have drafted Halliburton. They desperately needed a PG and Pat was a late riser who didn’t even start at college. Def not a Garpax type of pick. Especially that high in the draft.

All this is speculation obviously, but theyd likely have a core of Halliburton, LaVine, wagner, WCJ and their first in 2023. Not sure if they would have signed BD or DeMar, but I’d gladly take that hypothetical team over this train wreck. Good on AK for trying….bad on them for epically failing
 

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I actually think the opposite. I don’t think Garpax would have traded WCJ and 2 1sts for Vuc and I don’t think Pat was a Garpax type of pick either. Garpax overall were historically good at drafting…some misses here and there, but good overall. Hate to beat a dead horse, but think Garpax likely would have drafted Halliburton. They desperately needed a PG and Pat was a late riser who didn’t even start at college. Def not a Garpax type of pick. Especially that high in the draft.

All this is speculation obviously, but theyd likely have a core of Halliburton, LaVine, wagner, WCJ and their first in 2023. Not sure if they would have signed BD or DeMar, but I’d gladly take that hypothetical team over this train wreck. Good on AK for trying….bad on them for epically failing
You might be right on Haliburton, who knows on Wagner. The pick quality in the 2021 draft drops considerably after Giddey at 6, depending on how you feel about Kuminga, and of course excluding Wagner himself. Wagner didn't have the best NCAA tournament run that GarPax seemed to look for in many of their picks (technically neither does Haliburton to my knowledge, as he was injured his sophomore year after February). Unless GarPax picks Wagner there, that's decent chance of a bust.

AK might luck into keeping the pick this year, maybe not. The damage is already done. I guess we can pine for the GarPax days of old and play the fantasy Bulls on 2k
 

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I actually think the opposite. I don’t think Garpax would have traded WCJ and 2 1sts for Vuc and I don’t think Pat was a Garpax type of pick either. Garpax overall were historically good at drafting…some misses here and there, but good overall. Hate to beat a dead horse, but think Garpax likely would have drafted Halliburton. They desperately needed a PG and Pat was a late riser who didn’t even start at college. Def not a Garpax type of pick. Especially that high in the draft.

All this is speculation obviously, but theyd likely have a core of Halliburton, LaVine, wagner, WCJ and their first in 2023. Not sure if they would have signed BD or DeMar, but I’d gladly take that hypothetical team over this train wreck. Good on AK for trying….bad on them for epically failing
I just don't see Gar taking Haliburton while having taken Coby White AS A POINT GUARD the year before. GarPax didn't do do overs instantly, they would have given Coby a couple of seasons to see if he could be the starting PG or not.

Also, Haliburton was projected in mock drafts from 6-9, yet fell to 12 for some reason. So numerous GMs passed on him for some reason, and while Williams was reaching at 4, per the mock drafts at the time, no one picked from 4-10 has really differentiated themselves in the NBA thus far. They're all mediocre or outright terrible.

The 19-20 Bulls were quite lacking at SF. I also think they were sour on Lauri at this point. So drafting a PF was another option. WCJ was injured more often than healthy (this still rings true). Just as good of a chance they end up with Okoro or Toppin. Deni Avdija was also usually in the Bulls pick range at #4 in mock drafts.

Given all the hindsight, Haliburton would have been nice to have. But 11 GMs passed him up for a reason, no reason to think the Bulls would be the exception.

GarPax would have definitely not traded WCJ and two 1sts for Vuc. When GarPax made trades, it was usually salary dumps. GarPax also had their noses so stuck up their asses, they likely retain Jim Boylen.

Without making the Vuc trade, there is zero guarantee they are in a draft position to take Franz Wagner. I don't even know if GarPax would want Franz Wagner. They were 19-25 prior to the Vuc trade and finished 31-41. Their winning % is basically the same, so perhaps they do finish the same place. But if they had won just one more game they would have had the 10th pick. Without changing the team, it's hard to say how the Bulls end up finishing that season. If they kept the current coach and players, they could theoretically do worse and have a higher pick. Which, hey they possibly had a better player than Franz Wagner.

For all the drafting one says GarPax were good at, it's more of a what have you done for me lately?

Wendell Carter Jr and Coby White were GarPax's two lotto picks. The last one prior to that was Derrick Rose. Also Paxson basically controlled all GM functions prior to 2009, so if we're remembering the 04-08 period, then Paxson gets credit for that alone. That was also simply a different time.

Bulls had a late hit with Jimmy Butler, but that's really it. There are some good role players who had moments, like Portis and Taj, but for every one of those there's Marquis Teague, trading for Doug McDermott, Denzel Valentine, Chandler Hutchinson.

In 2018, they were projected to take one of the Bridges, so it was a bit of a surprise when they took WCJ. Of course with hindsight, its good they didn't take Miles Bridges, but dude developed better than WCJ has. Mikal Bridges has been a slow developer, but he's looking good now.

2019, there wasn't really much else to take around their pick.

All in all, while I'm not happy with the state of the team and it's clear AK's moves haven't worked out, he extended a coach not really working out for some reason, and the team doesn't have much to look forward to short of pulling off some good trades, I am glad that GarPax no longer run this team and I want absolutely nothing to do with them. Going into 19-20, I was absolutely done with that team. I was on strike from the Bulls until they fired GarPax. I didn't watch a game or even pay much attention to them. I was so happy when the national media trashed the Bulls franchise and their management during All-Star weekend as I thought it may lead to firings at the end of the season. It did.
 

Enasic

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The fact that we’re even entertaining the idea that things might have been better under Garpax just illustrate how much of a failure AK has been
 

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The fact that we’re even entertaining the idea that things might have been better under Garpax just illustrate how much of a failure AK has been
I'm not entertaining it. I think things would be just as bad if not worse.

I am willing to give AK this off-season to do something. So we'll see what happens. If just brings the band back, well yeah, AK is basically GarPax.
 

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The fact that we’re even entertaining the idea that things might have been better under Garpax just illustrate how much of a failure AK has been
I wouldn't say I'm really entertaining it either. I wouldn't trust GarPax to draft Haliburton or Wagner, let alone both. The team would still be bad, just a different sort of bad
 

Enasic

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Fair enough. Let’s see what AK does
 

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I'm not entertaining it. I think things would be just as bad if not worse.

I am willing to give AK this off-season to do something. So we'll see what happens. If just brings the band back, well yeah, AK is basically GarPax.

And that'll make me think that it's really either Reindorf driving things, or he hires guys that basically think the same.
 

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And that'll make me think that it's really either Reindorf driving things, or he hires guys that basically think the same.
Very well could be. And its been said its Michael running the show now and not Jerry, which would mean Michael is just the same as his father and we're not getting a Bill Wirtz to Rocky Wirtz kind of situation.

Suppose we'll know for sure whenever Jerry actually passes.

In terms of this front office though. It is possible for both to be absolutely bad, and this is what it is. If the Bulls continue to be bad, we'll see how much loyalty remains a factor in Reinsdorf keeping AK around. As we all know, AK is only his third GM in nearly 40 years.
 
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