Cubs Sign Ben Zobrist

chibears55

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Are you sitting in the Winter meetings? If you aren't in the negotiations, thinking there were better moves out there is pie in the sky nonsense.
So do some here think Epstein / Hoyer turned down better trade options and chose the Yankees?

Yankees also took on the ramainder of contract, which maybe other interested teams didn't offer..
Which they needed to happen

Also

If Zobrist had signed with the Cardinals or Mets and made them better, nobody would of been pissed ?

Unless im wrong, the only NL teams that has improved their roster over 2015 are the Cubs and Dbacks
 

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So do some here think Epstein / Hoyer turned down better trade options and chose the Yankees?

Yankees also took on the ramainder of contract, which maybe other interested teams didn't offer..
Which they needed to happen

Also

If Zobrist had signed with the Cardinals or Mets and made them better, nobody would of been pissed ?

Unless im wrong, the only NL teams that has improved their roster over 2015 are the Cubs and Dbacks
That's how I see it. Now I do like what Atlanta got in return for Miller. Did the Dodgers get better? Nope. SF? Nope. So AZ is more competitive now and the West will be tougher.

What the Cubs gained was a WS winning presence and leadership that Castro could not match.
 

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And as many people that disliked Castro here, I am happy for him going to the Yankees. He is in a good spot and the Yankees will be ready to compete against while he is still in his 20's. I wish him the best.
 

SilenceS

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So emotional.

Emotion has nothing to do with signing a 35 year old player to 4 year deal. He parlayed a good team into a big contract. Period. He never gets that contract if he stays on the A's


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You realize the cubs have a top 30 or so SS prospect who's probably 2-3 years away right? They also have Happ who's been working at 2B in instructs and was the #8 pick in the draft. This literally does nothing to stop them long term because unless Castro seriously turned things around he wasn't really in their long term plans anyways. And that says nothing of Baez who others here love way more than I do as a 2B option.

You realize I said I didn't care about dumping Castro right? My issue is using the money on old players on their absolute last legs.
 

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Emotion has nothing to do with signing a 35 year old player to 4 year deal. He parlayed a good team into a big contract. Period. He never gets that contract if he stays on the A's


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Since he got traded to the Royals, you're being irrational bringing up the A's. Castro was not a leader. This team needs more than Rizzo and a once every 5 days catcher. Ben is a great team player with WS experience. And a switch hitter. It was a good signing and trade. Castro is going to a good situation for him, too.


Oh, and, did you see how well he did in the WS? That's money.
 

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yeah, i don't care too about Castro, just don't like who we signed
 

beckdawg

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So do some here think Epstein / Hoyer turned down better trade options and chose the Yankees?

Yankees also took on the ramainder of contract, which maybe other interested teams didn't offer..
Which they needed to happen

Also

If Zobrist had signed with the Cardinals or Mets and made them better, nobody would of been pissed ?

Unless im wrong, the only NL teams that has improved their roster over 2015 are the Cubs and Dbacks

What's interesting to me is seemed like so many wanted to sign Zobrist prior to 2015 season. I don't remember specific names but seemed like the prevailing thought at the time was most were in favor of it. Now it happens and it's a shit show of complaints. Like to me the only two areas of possible complaint are that Zobrist might end up being too old and that the back half of his 4 years might be really ugly though I've obviously argued I think he'll be ok.

And the other area is Castro return. I mean I'm not sure what people were expecting to get if he was traded. However, if there is anything to trust this front office with it's evaluating pitchers. They've missed on what Veras, Jackson and dude they got for Zambrano who's name escapes me. On the other hand, they've built a top 5 bullpen out of nothing, they found Arrieta for pennies, they made productive starters out of Hammel, Maholm and Feldman and turned Shark into a good enough pitcher to net Russell. Warren has obvious questions but there's upside there.
 

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So big picture with the resources spent...
We could have tried going into post season battle the next couple of years with TOR Price and Baez at 2nd.
Or Lackey and Zobrist at 2nd and Baez as super bench guy.
Interesting choice.
 

SilenceS

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Since he got traded to the Royals, you're being irrational bringing up the A's. Castro was not a leader. This team needs more than Rizzo and a once every 5 days catcher. Ben is a great team player with WS experience. And a switch hitter. It was a good signing and trade. Castro is going to a good situation for him, too.


Oh, and, did you see how well he did in the WS? That's money.

I also know when players are going to regress. You pay for future performance not past. This was a move to please Maddon. Irrational bringing up the A's? Ummm, he played for them last year. It would be irrational if he did not. He did and if he had stayed on the A's he doesn't sniff this contract. You just added more money, got older, and the return was minimal. Its ok not to agree with the FO. Time will tell but I will go on record and say these two moves will not be in the Cubs favor.
 

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So big picture with the resources spent...
We could have tried going into post season battle the next couple of years with TOR Price and Baez at 2nd.
Or Lackey and Zobrist at 2nd and Baez as super bench guy.
Interesting choice.

I'd have preferred Price and Baez. Especially considered how deep our farm system still is. Give me the ace pitcher for multiple years.

Its like they are acting like we won half our games and are in desperate need of vets to mentor the young players. We won 97 games! We don't need has beens we need an ace and experience.
 

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I also know when players are going to regress. You pay for future performance not past. This was a move to please Maddon. Irrational bringing up the A's? Ummm, he played for them last year. It would be irrational if he did not. He did and if he had stayed on the A's he doesn't sniff this contract. You just added more money, got older, and the return was minimal. Its ok not to agree with the FO. Time will tell but I will go on record and say these two moves will not be in the Cubs favor.
LOL. Please explain what positions Castro plays that Zobrist can't. Oops. Zobrist plays even more. Happ was drafted out of college. He's close to MLB within 2 years. Zobrist' primary years of starting are the next two.

What leadership did Castro provide next to Rizzo? He didnt. If you want a WS ring, quit bitching and understand they got a guy who takes advanced bats, doesn't strike out much and leads by example.
 

SilenceS

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LOL. Please explain what positions Castro plays that Zobrist can't. Oops. Zobrist plays even more. Happ was drafted out of college. He's close to MLB within 2 years. Zobrist' primary years of starting are the next two.

What leadership did Castro provide next to Rizzo? He didnt. If you want a WS ring, quit bitching and understand they got a guy who takes advanced bats, doesn't strike out much and leads by example.

What does any of that have to do with my post?
 

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What does any of that have to do with my post?
You said it was a move to please Maddon. You are bringing up the A's even though Zobrist was a KEY player for the Royals in their WS run. Your post isn't very good.
 

SilenceS

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LOL. Please explain what positions Castro plays that Zobrist can't. Oops. Zobrist plays even more. Happ was drafted out of college. He's close to MLB within 2 years. Zobrist' primary years of starting are the next two.

What leadership did Castro provide next to Rizzo? He didnt. If you want a WS ring, quit bitching and understand they got a guy who takes advanced bats, doesn't strike out much and leads by example.

Let me get back to this, so you are telling me you are ok with paying a guy 28 million for two years you don't think he will start? What if the Cubs don't win the series? What if they get cash strapped? He has a no trade clause which Theo adamantly said he would not give players. Do you know Zobrist had a negative defensive WAR last year? Do you know they don't plan on moving him around much and plan on starting him to second? Do you know his games played and numbers have declined every year for the past 3 years? Do you know the latin players have said Castro was a leader of them? What if Zobrist doesn't put the Cubs over the top? What if he plays a 100 games a year for the next 4? You pencil in Happ? Well, Im glad after 200 at bats which wasn't real good get penciled in two years? In the end, I don't like either move. Its my right. Its ok for people to disagree with the FO. You seem to not care for that.
 

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You said it was a move to please Maddon. You are bringing up the A's even though Zobrist was a KEY player for the Royals in their WS run. Your post isn't very good.

He played for the fucking A's last year!!!!!! What do you not get how it is relevant? Are you saying he is a lock because he had a good stretch with the Royals? Holy shit!
 

beckdawg

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You realize I said I didn't care about dumping Castro right? My issue is using the money on old players on their absolute last legs.

How does that limit them? They literally signed Lackey for 2 years and 4 years on Zobrist is hardly franchise changing. I mean your post made it sound as though they'd dealt away a lot of their youth for a ride with crusty old vets. If Zobrist is shit, you still have Baez. If Baez is shit you still have Alcantara. If Alcantara is shit you still have a number of guys down the line. And all they've committed on the two is $30 mil. Would you have preferred Zimmermann at $22 mil/season and whatever you can get for $8 mil? You're sort of banking on them being bad when in Lackey's case he's coming off a pretty decent year and if you prorate Zobrist year over a full season it's not really bad either.

To me it comes down to the fact that there aren't a lot of lead off hitters out there. Last year one of the reasons they specifically traded for Fowler was to be that lead off hitter. Most of the comments at the time were lukewarm on Fowler. Only 46 players last season had an OBP over .350. The list of FA who meet that criteria are Jason Heyward and Ben Zobrist. If we expand it slightly you get Dexter Fowler(.346). If we expand it to names in trade talks it's Brett Gardner(.343), Ben Revere(.342), and Ender Inciarte(.338). That's the list. No one else as far as I'm aware is rumored to be on the market.

That doesn't leave you a lot of options. You can make an argument for anyone on that list I think and from the reports the cubs may still be after Heyward. But as for the others vs Zobrist, it basically comes down to cost in players or money in the case of Fowler. Fowler's going to get more money than Zobrist. It's just a matter of how much. And as for the trade candidates, I think if all went well Inciarte is a guy i would have liked to have had but he obviously was dealt away for Miller.

As for Lackey, I mean it seems pretty obvious this series of moves relied on that move being cheap. If you sign say Zimmermann for $22 mil/season Zobrist doesn't happen and you're probably having to trade for someone. And maybe Zobrist and Lackey just end up old and not useful but it's not always that simple. Zobrist in particular has a game that's decently well insulated from aging. If we compare Zobrist to say Ichiro, Zobrist walks a bit more but both are low k hitters without much power. Ichiro from 35-38 was 5.4 fWAR, 4.7 fWAR, 0 and 2.6. The 0 largely had to do with his defense falling off a cliff that year.
 

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Let me get back to this, so you are telling me you are ok with paying a guy 28 million for two years you don't think he will start? What if the Cubs don't win the series? What if they get cash strapped? He has a no trade clause which Theo adamantly said he would not give players. Do you know Zobrist had a negative defensive WAR last year? Do you know they don't plan on moving him around much and plan on starting him to second? Do you know his games played and numbers have declined every year for the past 3 years? Do you know the latin players have said Castro was a leader of them? What if Zobrist doesn't put the Cubs over the top? What if he plays a 100 games a year for the next 4? You pencil in Happ? Well, Im glad after 200 at bats which wasn't real good get penciled in two years? In the end, I don't like either move. Its my right. Its ok for people to disagree with the FO. You seem to not care for that.
First two years, primary spot is 2B and LF when Schwarber is C. After that becomes Util. Util can be an every day player with as many spots as he plays. All the pros love what the Cubs have done e, yet here you are joining in the wailing and gnashing of teeth. You forget intangibles, locker room, leadership, etc. You haven't addressed it, because you know Castro doesn't have that.
 

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He played for the fucking A's last year!!!!!! What do you not get how it is relevant? Are you saying he is a lock because he had a good stretch with the Royals? Holy shit!
He got traded from the A's. Holy shit!!!!
 

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