The 2020 Personnel Discussion: Offense

Chicagosports89

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2018
Posts:
14,259
Liked Posts:
20,392
So per laputan we should bring in the turnover king next year. Hell, why not? It worked when we brought cutler here. If he throws for lots of yards and tds surely the turnovers won’t matter. Maybe a new coach will fix him, he’s only had turnover issues with 3 different coaches.
 

WookieOnRitalin

Active member
Joined:
Mar 14, 2015
Posts:
322
Liked Posts:
276
Mitch is 25 and people are like give him 2 more years, maybe he'll become average.

Winston is 25 and currently on pace to become the 8th ever QB with 5000 passing yards in a season. He doesn't need to fix anything. Mitch's five 3 and outs a game turn the ball over more than 1 or 2 interceptions.

Production without wins is rather useless. For those who make the interceptions argument, you can see Eli and Favre for reference as INTs are not always the end all be all when it comes to overall value.

However, in Winston's case, his production has not truly translated to team success. It's a mixed bag. Combine that with his off the field issues since, I don't know, forever, then you get a sense of how risky he would be to pick up.

It's quite rare for any FA/Traded QB to bring a team a Super Bowl. You also do not see it translate to team success as most successful teams since the league went to 32 teams has been the result of developing a QB and never letting them leave (Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Wilson, Brady, Mannings).

81% of Superbowls in the last 16 years are won by QBs who were drafted by their team. The notable exceptions include Manning, Brees, and Foles.

If Wentz does not go down, you can argue that he likely also wins and makes the percentage even higher. The other two are GOATs.
 

Chicagosports89

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2018
Posts:
14,259
Liked Posts:
20,392
Mitch is 25 and people are like give him 2 more years, maybe he'll become average.

Winston is 25 and currently on pace to become the 8th ever QB with 5000 passing yards in a season. He doesn't need to fix anything. Mitch's five 3 and outs a game turn the ball over more than 1 or 2 interceptions.
Arians knows QBs, if he doesn’t want him back I’ll pass.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,795
Liked Posts:
37,725
The Ravens pass-blocking has gotten better as the season progresses. I've been watching their games and the Ravens pass-blocking was problematic. The key to their passing game has been play-action. Earlier I mentioned why the Ravens run blocking is so good. The Ravens commit to it, we don't

On str8 drop backs, the Ravens are still a little shaky, but improving ( based on what I've seen in their games). Ljack makes the pass blocking look better, with his ability to move around and extend plays when the protection breaks down. IMO.
If we just had Ljack we'd be a lot better, even with what we have now on "O". IMO.

You are arguing two different things.

1. Your original claim was about who had better personnel. It is 100% obvious to everyone that the Ravens OL is better. Committing to the run doesnt make the talent better. The Ravens OL actually has players that are better than the Bears so no it is not just about committment.

2. It is debatable if Jackson would succeed with us as Nagy shows limited ability with respect to how to use a mobile QB. Harbaugh built an O that suits Jackson. If Nagy tried to stick Jackson in his offense and make him a pocket passer like he tried with Trubs, it would likely fail.
 

run and shoot

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 28, 2013
Posts:
15,983
Liked Posts:
3,255
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
The Ravens pass-blocking has gotten better as the season progresses. I've been watching their games and the Ravens pass-blocking was problematic. The key to their passing game has been play-action. Earlier I mentioned why the Ravens run blocking is so good. The Ravens commit to it, we don't

On str8 drop backs, the Ravens are still a little shaky, but improving ( based on what I've seen in their games). Ljack makes the pass blocking look better, with his ability to move around and extend plays when the protection breaks down. IMO.
If we just had Ljack we'd be a lot better, even with what we have now on "O". IMO.


You are arguing two different things.

1. Your original claim was about who had better personnel. It is 100% obvious to everyone that the Ravens OL is better. Committing to the run doesnt make the talent better. The Ravens OL actually has players that are better than the Bears so no it is not just about committment.

2. It is debatable if Jackson would succeed with us as Nagy shows limited ability with respect to how to use a mobile QB. Harbaugh built an O that suits Jackson. If Nagy tried to stick Jackson in his offense and make him a pocket passer like he tried with Trubs, it would likely fail.


If u read my additional comments above, you'll find that I was purposely more specific, as to not be misinterpreted ,


Committing to the run doesnt make the talent better

My point is twofold. 1) if ya commit, at least to a balance between pass/run it helps the OL. 2) If ya run from under center it conditions & helps the OL to be more aggressive vs. always being in a "passive" pass blocking mode much of the time.
We are more committed to the pass. I've talked about this in other threads. People who have played football know this.

Right its not just about commitment to the run, but it greatly helps the OL to get in the habit of running at the DL and developing aggressive "run nature". Hope that makes sense.
------

On LJack, he has a burning desire to prove people wrong about him "not being a good passing Qb". It's what 'fuels him'.
So thats why I said he'd find success here cuz he wants to prove people wrong, improve as a Qb and he wants a SB win.
IMO opinion.....I don't think Nagy would effect LJack's burning desire to win it all. Another Qb had that attitude with the Bears, his name..........Jim McMahon.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,795
Liked Posts:
37,725
The Ravens have better players on the OL. Go look up their OL history and ours. They are better. Committing to the run isnt changing that. If both teams commit to run equally then Ravens still vastly superior.

Burning desire doesnt mean shit if the coaching sucks. You just finish saying team doesnt commit to run but you think Nagy is going to commit to a running QB. Makes no sense.
 

pseudonym

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jan 11, 2014
Posts:
6,598
Liked Posts:
4,011
Location:
Chicago
You keep referencing fantasy leagues when discussing Burton. Literally nobody cares about his fantasy stats or the fact he isn’t owned in leagues because he is out for the year. Bringing fantasy discussion into talk of an actual players value shows a fundamental lack of grasp on reality

The statistics are still important. You do realize fantasy points have to do with receptions, yardages, and touchdowns? Last I checked those same stats were important to evaluating players in general? JFC. I can quote NFL stats if it would make you feel better. I just had those handy. Maybe when nobody wants to own a player or start him in fantasy, you might get an additional sense of his value. Which is next to nothing, right now.
 

Chicagosports89

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2018
Posts:
14,259
Liked Posts:
20,392
The statistics are still important. You do realize fantasy points have to do with receptions, yardages, and touchdowns? Last I checked those same stats were important to evaluating players in general? JFC. I can quote NFL stats if it would make you feel better. I just had those handy. Maybe when nobody wants to own a player or start him in fantasy, you might get an additional sense of his value. Which is next to nothing, right now.
You do realize he’s been out most of the season right? Of course his numbers are bad
 

WindyCity

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
Posts:
30,816
Liked Posts:
35,721
Ravens OL

LT: 1st round pick best pass protector in football
LG: 4th round
C: Stud
RG: HOF
RT: 3rd round Stud

They just have better players.
 

DeerBrinker34

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 22, 2019
Posts:
1,436
Liked Posts:
1,673
TE - Pace should go after a veteran who can contribute right away. I like Ebron but I do believe he's had or is having surgery on both of his ailing ankles. I guess if his medical checks out alright then a 1 year deal wouldn't hurt. I also like Lance Kendricks and Tyler Eifert on short term deals.

OL - I think Pace has to add a veteran at RG and draft someone as well to compete for the job. Let's not forget that the Bears won't have a ton of wiggle room when it comes to the salary cap so Pace will need to get creative. Maybe sign a guy like Joe Haeg of the Colts who has starting experience, but has been mainly in a reserve role. OT is going to be the toughest position to figure out. The Bears cannot cut Massie until after the 2020 season or he would count $10.8 million in Dead Cap Money. Cutting Leno would count over $7 million towards dead cap space in 2020 and almost $6 million in 2021. Chicago may be stuck with both for at least 1 more season. What they should do is hit the draft hard for upgrades at both LT and RT and let them compete.

CB - Chicago could look to the draft or add a veteran on a short term deal. Better depth is a must either way.

OLB - Pace has a ton of money invested at the position already, so the draft is most-likely where he will look for pass rushers.

SS - Scrap Ha Ha and look at someone like Karl Joseph, the enforcer type who prefers to play down in the box.

WR - Generally speaking, WRs can take quite a while to develop in the NFL. Chicago is already waiting for Miller, Wims and Ridley to take that next step, but I dont think they can wait much longer. Bring in a vet like Nelson Agholor for example on a prove it type deal and let them all compete for playing time. Allen Robinson will also need to be paid very soon, so keep that in mind.

QB - There's really no way in hell that Pace is going to fix this problem over night. They'll most-likely pick up Trubisky's 5th year option and give him yet another season to start unchallenged, but they really have to add competition and it needs to come from a veteran. Chase Daniel has served his purpose and he's not challenging anyone for a starting job like ever. Sign a Keenum or Dalton or whatever, just get someone who can push Trubisky for the job. Nothing wrong with competition, especially at the most important position on the football field.
 

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
I would absolutely love to bring Matt Breida here in free agency.

Let DMont and Breida be your Thunder and Lightning and relegate Cohen to a specialist role.
 

pseudonym

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jan 11, 2014
Posts:
6,598
Liked Posts:
4,011
Location:
Chicago
Lol that’s not true. Per your evaluation tool, Burton was the number 6 TE in football last year.

Shaheen is complete trash though

Yeah, #9 TE in my league that year, so you have a point.
 

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
Updated "realistic" wish list additions - Assuming Trubisky has to be the starter next season.

OC - Pat Shurmur EDIT: I am going to change this to Marty Mornhinweg but would be happy with Shurmur also.

QB -Case Keenum

RB - Matt Breida

TE - Cut Adam Shaheen and Ben Braunecker. Sign Levine Toilolo (blocking TE) and Charles Clay.

OL - Ronald Leary (RG) and Alex Leatherwood (2nd round pick).
 
Last edited:

bamainatlanta

You wake him up, you keep him up
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Aug 10, 2013
Posts:
33,612
Liked Posts:
33,540
Location:
Cumming
Leno - 70 and 44
Lucas - 68 and 55
Massie - 67 and 57
Whitehair - 63 and 58
Daniels - 68 and 62
Coward - 41 and 59

Damn those are some awful numbers. Honestly surprised to see them that high though
 

bamainatlanta

You wake him up, you keep him up
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Aug 10, 2013
Posts:
33,612
Liked Posts:
33,540
Location:
Cumming
TE - Pace should go after a veteran who can contribute right away. I like Ebron but I do believe he's had or is having surgery on both of his ailing ankles. I guess if his medical checks out alright then a 1 year deal wouldn't hurt. I also like Lance Kendricks and Tyler Eifert on short term deals.

OL - I think Pace has to add a veteran at RG and draft someone as well to compete for the job. Let's not forget that the Bears won't have a ton of wiggle room when it comes to the salary cap so Pace will need to get creative. Maybe sign a guy like Joe Haeg of the Colts who has starting experience, but has been mainly in a reserve role. OT is going to be the toughest position to figure out. The Bears cannot cut Massie until after the 2020 season or he would count $10.8 million in Dead Cap Money. Cutting Leno would count over $7 million towards dead cap space in 2020 and almost $6 million in 2021. Chicago may be stuck with both for at least 1 more season. What they should do is hit the draft hard for upgrades at both LT and RT and let them compete.

CB - Chicago could look to the draft or add a veteran on a short term deal. Better depth is a must either way.

OLB - Pace has a ton of money invested at the position already, so the draft is most-likely where he will look for pass rushers.

SS - Scrap Ha Ha and look at someone like Karl Joseph, the enforcer type who prefers to play down in the box.

WR - Generally speaking, WRs can take quite a while to develop in the NFL. Chicago is already waiting for Miller, Wims and Ridley to take that next step, but I dont think they can wait much longer. Bring in a vet like Nelson Agholor for example on a prove it type deal and let them all compete for playing time. Allen Robinson will also need to be paid very soon, so keep that in mind.

QB - There's really no way in hell that Pace is going to fix this problem over night. They'll most-likely pick up Trubisky's 5th year option and give him yet another season to start unchallenged, but they really have to add competition and it needs to come from a veteran. Chase Daniel has served his purpose and he's not challenging anyone for a starting job like ever. Sign a Keenum or Dalton or whatever, just get someone who can push Trubisky for the job. Nothing wrong with competition, especially at the most important position on the football field.

Agholor is garbage. No
 

bears26

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 29, 2012
Posts:
23,220
Liked Posts:
26,993
My favorite teams
  1. New York Mets
  1. Houston Rockets
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Oklahoma Sooners
Updated "realistic" wish list additions - Assuming Trubisky has to be the starter next season.

OC - Pat Shurmur EDIT: I am going to change this to Marty Mornhinweg but would be happy with Shurmur also.

QB -Case Keenum

RB - Matt Breida

TE - Cut Adam Shaheen and Ben Braunecker. Sign Levine Toilolo (blocking TE) and Charles Clay.

OL - Ronald Leary (RG) and Alex Leatherwood (2nd round pick).
No way, Bears would suck even more with that list (talking about the players). I do like Breida, however backup RBs can be found late in the draft.
 

PolarBear

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 8, 2013
Posts:
4,711
Liked Posts:
2,811
No way, Bears would suck even more with that list (talking about the players). I do like Breida, however backup RBs can be found late in the draft.

How exactly?

Keenum > Daniel

Breida > Cohen as an option at RB

Clay and Toilolo > Shaheen and Braunecker

Leary is 10x better than Long and Leatherwood is a great tackle prospect.
 

Top