Power vs Zone

WindyCity

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Are you really making a case for zone blocking being dead literally one day after the best zone running team in the NFL just won the NFC Championship game? Zone running is THE staple of Shanahan’s offense.

Both teams in the SB are primary zone teams.
 

WindyCity

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Zone= no pulling

Power= pulling

That is the simplest way to look at it.

Zone is mentally easier. It just requires the OL to count and get to their guys. It is harder for the RB because they have to pick the right hole.
 

modo

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Teams do not stick to one scheme 100% of the time...

In the case of the 2017 Bears they mostly did inside and outside zone which suited Howard...

In 2018 Nagy instituted more of a power scheme which sucked for Howard...later in the year the Bears started utilizing more of a zone scheme so the running game picked up.

Here is what Brian Baldinger said of the Bear run scheme in 2019


Brian Baldinger
@BaldyNFL


.@ChicagoBears take your run playbook and rip it up. This is a nonsense run game. College option crap with tight ends sealing the LOS with crap cut blocks. Pretend like Papa Bear Halas is watching and win the LOS. This run game will never win in the post season #BaldysBreakdowns

Here is another from Baldy on how the pre snap motion that Nagy loves actually fucked up the running play and caused an extra defender to enter the box...


 

BearDownZZ

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Like most things in football, terminology also gets mixed up. So when you say outside zone, most people are talking about 90's Bronco / Alex Gibbs scheme that SF runs. Its primarily a base run play ran from 1st and 10 and 2nd and mid. OL uses same technique then track to right or left and the RB reads the play side DT then decides to bounce, bang or bend.

Most teams use heavy power in short yardage and red zone. Its a lot harder to run a stretch play when the defense is compressed.

Base RPO is an inside zone looks more like power. Not tracking but technically they are just blocking a zone (who ever is lined up over them). Here is a great video with Doug Pederson showing EXACTLY what we do..the base RPO inside zone play.


The important thing is that this puts a lot of success on the QB reading it right, making the right - accurate throw or handing it off when he has numbers. Ask yourself if you think Trubisky ran this well?

The RPO inside zone has had top running offenses in the NFL with the Chiefs and Eagles. You can also run an RPO with an outside zone instead of an inside zone and the 49ers did it last week.
 

Chris Sojka

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?Your ignorant clumsy way of backtracking makes you look even more football Special person.

Your inability to read and remember anything past a month ago indicates youve syluffered to much head trauma.

Nothing of substance ever comes out of your mouth. You're just a huge pussy behind a keyboard.
 
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Chris Sojka

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What I am saying is the chiefs throw 70% of the time. How are the a "zone run team". They're awful at it.

Also the 49ers have a top 5 defense with a ton of young talent from bottoming out the last 3 years. They kept Joe Staley as their LT for 12 years and built a great offensive line all the way through. Kittle is also a total stud blocking TE. They run a FB. And pull guards to run the ball.

The zone run is literally just we are more athletic than the guy in front of us and the guy running the ball has better vision and athleticism than the would be tacklers. The reason this works is elite players not elite scheme.
 

WindyCity

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What I am saying is the chiefs throw 70% of the time. How are the a "zone run team". They're awful at it.

Also the 49ers have a top 5 defense with a ton of young talent from bottoming out the last 3 years. They kept Joe Staley as their LT for 12 years and built a great offensive line all the way through. Kittle is also a total stud blocking TE. They run a FB. And pull guards to run the ball.

The zone run is literally just we are more athletic than the guy in front of us and the guy running the ball has better vision and athleticism than the would be tacklers. The reason this works is elite players not elite scheme.

It is 100% the opposite.

It does not require OLmen to win 1 on 1 match ups o be successful. In a zone run your play side tackle can lose and the play can still be successful backside.

Zone runs are easier to execute and require less talent than power.


The 49ers like most teams run a combination of stuff. But a bulk of their run game is based on zone run concepts. Anyone who runs RPOs is running zone run.

Teams do it because it is easier to execute and you do not need big ass kickers on the line. Finding a guy who can square up Aaron Donald 1 on 1 is pretty hard.
 

WindyCity

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Outside zone should really be called sprint zone. All zone runs can conceivably go outside.

Sprint zone is where you sell out and even give up some ground to get to the outside shoulder of the defenders. The backside is often cut blocking, which takes away the cut back and forces the playside outside run.
 

Chris Sojka

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It is 100% the opposite.

It does not require OLmen to win 1 on 1 match ups o be successful. In a zone run your play side tackle can lose and the play can still be successful backside.

Zone runs are easier to execute and require less talent than power.


The 49ers like most teams run a combination of stuff. But a bulk of their run game is based on zone run concepts. Anyone who runs RPOs is running zone run.

Teams do it because it is easier to execute and you do not need big ass kickers on the line. Finding a guy who can square up Aaron Donald 1 on 1 is pretty hard.

Really? Tell that to Charles Leno and whoever our RT was this year after Bobbie Massie.

Doesn't have to win, but also has to win enough that the option is there to kick it outside at some point.

The more you dominate at the line the more the zone run options there are and the wider the holes. If you get blown off the line "C" is gone, "B" gets attacked by the linebacker and "A" is dependent on how well your guards and center hold up.

Losing at the LOS does matter otherwise the Bears wouldn't have been one of the worst run offenses in the league.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Your inability to read and remember anything past a month ago indicates youve syluffered to much head trauma.

Nothing of substance ever comes out of your mouth. You're just a huge pussy behind a keyboard.
It's as if you're addressing yourself but targeting me. Not only have you shown an inability to comprehend posts from others but now you seem unable to remember or comprehend your own posts. Little girls no more about footbal than you.

I've seen many stupid posts in these forii, but saying "Every play is technically a zone run that doesnt go right." is about the dumbest football related one I've seen. Congrats on your ignorance and outright stupidity.
 

HearshotKDS

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Lol, another gem from mister “give Kwit a 6 year contract”. Reading Sojka posts is the ccs equivalent of asking Fergie to sing the national anthem, if you’re not ready for a shit show then you’re going to have a bad time.
 

Chris Sojka

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It's as if you're addressing yourself but targeting me. Not only have you shown an inability to comprehend posts from others but now you seem unable to remember or comprehend your own posts. Little girls no more about footbal than you.

I've seen many stupid posts in these forii, but saying "Every play is technically a zone run that doesnt go right." is about the dumbest football related one I've seen. Congrats on your ignorance and outright stupidity.

So if the pulling guard fails to execute and everyone just blocks the guy in front of them and instead of hitting the intended hole it resembles a zone run where he options for a different path its still a power run?

Im just saying most plays dont go 100% as intended from an offensive standpoint. So therefore if a RB options out of the hole what do you call that. Because its no longer a power run. And if hes picking a hole it resembles very much the idea of zone running even if its unintended.
 

Chris Sojka

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It's as if you're addressing yourself but targeting me. Not only have you shown an inability to comprehend posts from others but now you seem unable to remember or comprehend your own posts. Little girls no more about footbal than you.

I've seen many stupid posts in these forii, but saying "Every play is technically a zone run that doesnt go right." is about the dumbest football related one I've seen. Congrats on your ignorance and outright stupidity.

Did you just write all that? This is an exagerated way of accusing me of saying "i know you are but what am i?

Spartan you fat pussy. You still havent contributed anything. You are a bitch and consistently chime in with zero contribution to the OP.

Notice windy engaged the discussion and there is an actual conversation. You're just a fat blabbering loser flexing keyboard muscles.
 

Warrior Spirit

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So if the pulling guard fails to execute and everyone just blocks the guy in front of them and instead of hitting the intended hole it resembles a zone run where he options for a different path its still a power run?

Im just saying most plays dont go 100% as intended from an offensive standpoint. So therefore if a RB options out of the hole what do you call that. Because its no longer a power run. And if hes picking a hole it resembles very much the idea of zone running even if its unintended.
You don't have as much success as Niners have running the ball if every play "doesn't go right". It's predicated on mostly all things going right. Every player has a blocking assignment. They even go into most downs with 2 plays called. Garropolo then calls the more advantageous play based on his pre-snap read of the defense.

And in coming out with a thread declaring the zone run dead, a wiser person would have expected the obvious backlash right after Shanahan's Niners ran right through GB at will. Not concerned about your inane baby-like insults. It just seems a difficult task to explain the simplest things to you so here's a video showing what's going on with the Niners' run game.

Kyle Shanahan's Zone Run Rips the NFL to Shreds
 

SlickWilly

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Did you just write all that? This is an exagerated way of accusing me of saying "i know you are but what am i?

Spartan you fat pussy. You still havent contributed anything. You are a bitch and consistently chime in with zero contribution to the OP.

Notice windy engaged the discussion and there is an actual conversation. You're just a fat blabbering loser flexing keyboard muscles.

You just described the fucking Special person to a T!
 

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Looking at San Francisco run looked very straight forward power run. Im not saying zone run dosen't have its place with mobile QBs. But the 3rd and short TD looked like a pure power run. Baltimore's run game outside of Jackson didn't hit many home runs. And when Jackson is running he is either scrambling or following a lead blocker. The Tennessee Titans put that tape on and did a little homework and the rest is history. Their gameplan was simple. Dont cross the LOS and let him beat you through the air.

The zone run seems to be more of a test, than actually taking shots at them. 49ers also passed the ball 9 times. They have a very run diverse offense but also a run first offense. Simply put i dont think it can be your identity. Also Green Bay has the worst run defense in the league by far.

Zone running didn't just make a comeback. Dont know wtf this writer is saying. Its been around for a long time and teams have run it a ton in the last decade. Just because QBs like Brady didn't doesnt mean it hasnt been tried with a bunch of different QBs and offenses. We have a ton of mobile QBs and it might suit the entire offense better to zone read and zone run but for the most part it's still a gimmicky style.

If you can run the ball 50 times a game and score 35 points it says more about personnel and coaching than simply scheme. Do you really believe the zone run can work without a stacked offensive line, the best blocking TE in Kittle. 3 RBs splitting carries and WRs who are willing blockers for 50 plays a game?

Im not saying it won't work anywhere or not at all. I'm saying you have to build an entire offense to run it and stick to running the ball while mixing the run design to keep defenses honest.
Wait a second.....are you making an argument about something when you’re not even 100% sure what you’re seeing?
 

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This is what pissed me off when Fangio got here. He was some great coach, great ideas, had a roster full of 4-3 guys. Instead of doing something like the great Buddy Ryan would do, and create a 4-6 defense, or something that would allow the players to use their attributes, they end up having defensive ends drop weight to try to play linebacker, or linebackers add weight to move inside, instead of allowing them to do what they did best, even if it meant doing something completely different.
I dont know about our line, we have gone thru some series with Howard last year where they just run power and he marched right down the field. We had a good rushing attack once this year, 160 something yards, none from mitch, and they never went back to it again.
I am not sure our line knows what they are good at anymore.
All I know is James Daniels did not have one bad snap this year, and he even got bumped back over. The only thing whitehair got back was getting mitch in the run first mentality because he did not know where the ball would be snapped
 

Chris Sojka

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You don't have as much success as Niners have running the ball if every play "doesn't go right". It's predicated on mostly all things going right. Every player has a blocking assignment. They even go into most downs with 2 plays called. Garropolo then calls the more advantageous play based on his pre-snap read of the defense.

And in coming out with a thread declaring the zone run dead, a wiser person would have expected the obvious backlash right after Shanahan's Niners ran right through GB at will. Not concerned about your inane baby-like insults. It just seems a difficult task to explain the simplest things to you so here's a video showing what's going on with the Niners' run game.

Kyle Shanahan's Zone Run Rips the NFL to Shreds

Again. Thats the 49ers. A team who had drafted top players in the last 7 drafts. They are going to perhaps win a superbowl but it will likely be all on their great defense. Running the ball is a luxury granted to you by either points or great defense. Him running his 49ers zone run doesn't matter. They win on paper all day as far as olines go.

The nutriding of a crap scheme from a team that was mocked as the misfit all year suddenly gets praise. Does anyone here stick to their guns.
 
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Bearly

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You don't have as much success as Niners have running the ball if every play "doesn't go right". It's predicated on mostly all things going right. Every player has a blocking assignment. They even go into most downs with 2 plays called. Garropolo then calls the more advantageous play based on his pre-snap read of the defense.

And in coming out with a thread declaring the zone run dead, a wiser person would have expected the obvious backlash right after Shanahan's Niners ran right through GB at will. Not concerned about your inane baby-like insults. It just seems a difficult task to explain the simplest things to you so here's a video showing what's going on with the Niners' run game.

Kyle Shanahan's Zone Run Rips the NFL to Shreds
Mixing metaphors much?
 

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