Cubs showing interest in Merrifield

[beckdawg]

Dylan Cease is a pitcher they developed. Kyle Hendricks was in A+ IIRC when they traded for him. I get really frustrated when people talk about the cubs farm system because they generally don't have a firm grasp on it. The cubs certainly have work to do with their pitching development. They are by no means LA or NYY. But to sit here and talk like they are the worst in the league at it or even in the bottom 1/4 of the league is a fundamental misunderstanding of development.

Simply put the cubs haven't invested nearly as much in terms of high picks as a lot of other teams. And up until recently they haven't really spent big in IFA there either. Fact of the matter is if you're picked outside the top 75 or so picks in a given draft your odds of making the majors are pretty low. This isn't the NFL where you can build your team with 3rd/4th/5th round picks.

So, when you're starting with a low ceiling player it's difficult to make much more out of them. And because they knew they were taking that sort of approach in terms of picks and IFAs they also didn't really gamble much on higher upside arms. As an example here, 2012-2015 they weren't drafting guys like Riley Thompson who's a name that will start perking on lists soon. They were drafting safer pitchers without great stuff. Best way I can think to describe it is they were trying to find the next Hendricks more so than the next deGrom or some other starter who if you nail the pick has crazy stuff.

All that being said, people need to pay more attention because the arms that are currently in the system are far more interesting than previous years. Marquez in particular could be really good if all things work out and as mentioned Thompson looks like a steal in the 11th round.

Point here is that cubs are a lot better at development than people realize. I mean look at Bote as just an example of a hitter they plucked out of no where. As someone who actually follows a lot of the minor league stuff I'd put them on the fringe of the top 1/4 of all teams and it may be higher than that given their recent success with pitchers in the past 2 drafts. It also doesn't help that they gutted a lot of their system to win the past 4 years.

 

[anotheridiot]

Without giving up gleybor for a “big name(Chapman),” the cubs don’t win the World Series in 2016. Would it be great to still have gleybor? Sure...but that’s not reality. They don’t have a WS banner hanging without making that tough decision. Theo isn’t good at developing...that’s why there have been literally 0 pitchers developed, and you can argue the development of many of the position players has been underwhelming as well.

It was the other 10 guys Theo drafted and developed that won the world series. Why does everyone just go to Chapman doing it himself? So with Gleybor adding runs to your roster in 2017 and 2018 they dont win? Dont win two world series looking for a three peat? They were favorites both years......without chapman. I remember Chapman throwing the pitches that got driven over the wall to tie the game. He was no doubt more effective in getting them to the playoffs than what he did in the playoffs. You might as well say that Kimbrel was the reason Boston won when he got lit up in the playoffs.

You got one title, not multiple titles, and the guys that are not here searching blindly for it are Gleybor, Eloy, and Cease.

So now we have an opportunity to add a developed starting 2Bman, finally have a spot for a starting pitcher, be it Alzolay, Mills, Rhea, and the blind fans looking to nut want names.

 

[anotheridiot]

Dylan Cease is a pitcher they developed. Kyle Hendricks was in A+ IIRC when they traded for him. I get really frustrated when people talk about the cubs farm system because they generally don't have a firm grasp on it. The cubs certainly have work to do with their pitching development. They are by no means LA or NYY. But to sit here and talk like they are the worst in the league at it or even in the bottom 1/4 of the league is a fundamental misunderstanding of development.

Simply put the cubs haven't invested nearly as much in terms of high picks as a lot of other teams. And up until recently they haven't really spent big in IFA there either. Fact of the matter is if you're picked outside the top 75 or so picks in a given draft your odds of making the majors are pretty low. This isn't the NFL where you can build your team with 3rd/4th/5th round picks.

So, when you're starting with a low ceiling player it's difficult to make much more out of them. And because they knew they were taking that sort of approach in terms of picks and IFAs they also didn't really gamble much on higher upside arms. As an example here, 2012-2015 they weren't drafting guys like Riley Thompson who's a name that will start perking on lists soon. They were drafting safer pitchers without great stuff. Best way I can think to describe it is they were trying to find the next Hendricks more so than the next deGrom or some other starter who if you nail the pick has crazy stuff.

All that being said, people need to pay more attention because the arms that are currently in the system are far more interesting than previous years. Marquez in particular could be really good if all things work out and as mentioned Thompson looks like a steal in the 11th round.

Point here is that cubs are a lot better at development than people realize. I mean look at Bote as just an example of a hitter they plucked out of no where. As someone who actually follows a lot of the minor league stuff I'd put them on the fringe of the top 1/4 of all teams and it may be higher than that given their recent success with pitchers in the past 2 drafts. It also doesn't help that they gutted a lot of their system to win the past 4 years.

And none of them will help this team if they get blocked on the roster by the big name 20 and 30 million dollar names. To me this is why we need to see Mills, Rea, Alzolay have a shot to earn a spot, so when Q is gone, Lester is gone, there is a shot to replace them with the system when all of Bryant Baez, Schwarber and Rizzo are in the 20 million range with Heyward.

 

[SilenceS]

It was the other 10 guys Theo drafted and developed that won the world series. Why does everyone just go to Chapman doing it himself? So with Gleybor adding runs to your roster in 2017 and 2018 they dont win? Dont win two world series looking for a three peat? They were favorites both years......without chapman. I remember Chapman throwing the pitches that got driven over the wall to tie the game. He was no doubt more effective in getting them to the playoffs than what he did in the playoffs. You might as well say that Kimbrel was the reason Boston won when he got lit up in the playoffs.

You got one title, not multiple titles, and the guys that are not here searching blindly for it are Gleybor, Eloy, and Cease.

So now we have an opportunity to add a developed starting 2Bman, finally have a spot for a starting pitcher, be it Alzolay, Mills, Rhea, and the blind fans looking to nut want names.

None of this is coherent or even resemble a rational thought to real life

 

[anotheridiot]

Non of this is coherent or even resemble a rational thought to real life

Maybe you should resign from being a moderator then , since this is so difficult to comprehend.

 

[knoxville7]

It was the other 10 guys Theo drafted and developed that won the world series. Why does everyone just go to Chapman doing it himself? So with Gleybor adding runs to your roster in 2017 and 2018 they dont win? Dont win two world series looking for a three peat? They were favorites both years......without chapman. I remember Chapman throwing the pitches that got driven over the wall to tie the game. He was no doubt more effective in getting them to the playoffs than what he did in the playoffs. You might as well say that Kimbrel was the reason Boston won when he got lit up in the playoffs.

You got one title, not multiple titles, and the guys that are not here searching blindly for it are Gleybor, Eloy, and Cease.

So now we have an opportunity to add a developed starting 2Bman, finally have a spot for a starting pitcher, be it Alzolay, Mills, Rhea, and the blind fans looking to nut want names.

Chapman threw 15 and 2/3 innings in the postseason and struck out 21 batters. Cubs played 17 games...cubs won 11 of those games. So Chapman avg over an inning per win(as he is a closer he came in with the lead or the game tied). That’s after th cubs worked him to death after the deadline to get to the postseason...so yes, it’s fair to question whether the cubs could win the World Series that year without him. Chapman didn’t get lit up like your horrible analogy to kimbrel when Boston won it. You’re just grasping at straws that aren’t even there.

Drafting top 10 prospects doesn’t equate to developing them. Top 10 prospects are generally the ones that will be at least decent no matter how good of a job you do at development. It’s the guys that get drafted after that first round that can show actual development, or turning those top 10 picks into perennial all stars. Where is this amazing development that Theo has shown? I’ve seen regression in every cubs hitter not named baez(not drafted by Theo) and Rizzo. If you want to look at an organization that develops players at a high level, look at the cardinals as much as it pains me to say it. Theo spots talent, he doesn’t develop it. And to beck who wants to rely on cease and Hendricks as cases of development...Hendricks is another case of Theo simply spotting talent. And cease? Why would we even bother mentioning that as development? He’s with the white Sox getting developed there

 

[Omeletpants]

None of this is coherent or even resemble a rational thought to real life

This isnt going to help you in the CCS Mod Power Rankings

 

[anotheridiot]

Chapman threw 15 and 2/3 innings in the postseason and struck out 21 batters. Cubs played 17 games...cubs won 11 of those games. So Chapman avg over an inning per win(as he is a closer he came in with the lead or the game tied). That’s after th cubs worked him to death after the deadline to get to the postseason...so yes, it’s fair to question whether the cubs could win the World Series that year without him. Chapman didn’t get lit up like your horrible analogy to kimbrel when Boston won it. You’re just grasping at straws that aren’t even there.

Drafting top 10 prospects doesn’t equate to developing them. Top 10 prospects are generally the ones that will be at least decent no matter how good of a job you do at development. It’s the guys that get drafted after that first round that can show actual development, or turning those top 10 picks into perennial all stars. Where is this amazing development that Theo has shown? I’ve seen regression in every cubs hitter not named baez(not drafted by Theo) and Rizzo. If you want to look at an organization that develops players at a high level, look at the cardinals as much as it pains me to say it. Theo spots talent, he doesn’t develop it. And to beck who wants to rely on cease and Hendricks as cases of development...Hendricks is another case of Theo simply spotting talent. And cease? Why would we even bother mentioning that as development? He’s with the white Sox getting developed there

I am grasping at straws and you put the entire world series title on the fact Chapman was here, not Bryant, Rizzo, Fowler, Heyward, Ross, Schwarber, Hendricks, Russell, Almora, Soler, Scuzzy, Rondon, Grimm, CJ, Jake, had nothing to do with it. None of those players Theo drafted or rejuvenated had anything to do with it?

You want to go back to his playoff dominance?
First two post season games, saves, Third game, blown save, Fourth game Save, Fifth game, Blew the save, TEAM CAME BACK and won anyway. Those were the first 5 games, til game 1 of the dodger series, before Maddon turned his arm to rubber? Do we need to keep going? There was one more save til the end, no more during the dodger series, not til game 5 of the world series, We all know he blew the save in game 7. Two of the other games he threw in, the lead was bigger so he could not even qualify for the save, and you give no credit to the other 24 guys that showed up. Of those 24, how many were Theo developed players?

I had no problem with Chapman, other than not resigning him after they gave up so much. But apparently what he showed was not enough for Theo to want to keep him the term he was looking for.

 

[knoxville7]

I am grasping at straws and you put the entire world series title on the fact Chapman was here, not Bryant, Rizzo, Fowler, Heyward, Ross, Schwarber, Hendricks, Russell, Almora, Soler, Scuzzy, Rondon, Grimm, CJ, Jake, had nothing to do with it. None of those players Theo drafted or rejuvenated had anything to do with it?

You want to go back to his playoff dominance?
First two post season games, saves, Third game, blown save, Fourth game Save, Fifth game, Blew the save, TEAM CAME BACK and won anyway. Those were the first 5 games, til game 1 of the dodger series, before Maddon turned his arm to rubber? Do we need to keep going? There was one more save til the end, no more during the dodger series, not til game 5 of the world series, We all know he blew the save in game 7. Two of the other games he threw in, the lead was bigger so he could not even qualify for the save, and you give no credit to the other 24 guys that showed up. Of those 24, how many were Theo developed players?

I had no problem with Chapman, other than not resigning him after they gave up so much. But apparently what he showed was not enough for Theo to want to keep him the term he was looking for.

I never once said none of the other 24 guys contributed...you are grasping at larger and larger straws now. Who else in the bullpen did joe truly trust in high leverage situations? All I said was that without Chapman, it’s fair to question whether or not the cubs win the WS. Of course you can say the cubs may not of won it without Rizzo, Bryant, etc...but they were already on the roster. Chapman was an addition mid season that changed the potential of the roster. I’m sorry that you cannot grasp that concept

 

[anotheridiot]

I never once said none of the other 24 guys contributed...you are grasping at larger and larger straws now. Who else in the bullpen did joe truly trust in high leverage situations? All I said was that without Chapman, it’s fair to question whether or not the cubs win the WS. Of course you can say the cubs may not of won it without Rizzo, Bryant, etc...but they were already on the roster. Chapman was an addition mid season that changed the potential of the roster. I’m sorry that you cannot grasp that concept

They were drafted and chosen by Theo that way. Rizzo by the Red sox, moved to San Diego when Hoyer went there to keep him in that fold, then here. I am sorry you missed Rendon with 18 saves, before Chapman got here.

You keep saying I am grasping at straws, but nobody says, the cubs would not have won the world series if Rizzo was not here, if Bryant was not here, if Schwarber did not return, because of Russells stellar shortstop play, Contrares, Zobrist, Hendricks. Its always because of Chapman. Its fine, you keep going back to it because its all you got.

Theo is a developer of talent. He clearly blows goats making trades and choosing free agents.

That is all, let him get back to that, and doing that returns with Nico Hoerner, a player somehow, The Three Amigos got with the 25th pick and stop spending the ricketts money.

 

[knoxville7]

They were drafted and chosen by Theo that way. Rizzo by the Red sox, moved to San Diego when Hoyer went there to keep him in that fold, then here. I am sorry you missed Rendon with 18 saves, before Chapman got here.

You keep saying I am grasping at straws, but nobody says, the cubs would not have won the world series if Rizzo was not here, if Bryant was not here, if Schwarber did not return, because of Russells stellar shortstop play, Contrares, Zobrist, Hendricks. Its always because of Chapman. Its fine, you keep going back to it because its all you got.

Theo is a developer of talent. He clearly blows goats making trades and choosing free agents.

That is all, let him get back to that, and doing that returns with Nico Hoerner, a player somehow, The Three Amigos got with the 25th pick and stop spending the ricketts money.

No, you’re missing the point. The roster already had those guys to start the season. Chapman was the mid season addition that put the cubs over the top. Chapman was the piece that was a mid season decision to bring in...the other guys were not. You aren’t able to understand that, so I’ll move on.

 

[SilenceS]

No, you’re missing the point. The roster already had those guys to start the season. Chapman was the mid season addition that put the cubs over the top. Chapman was the piece that was a mid season decision to bring in...the other guys were not. You aren’t able to understand that, so I’ll move on.

He isnt missing the point. He is ignoring it. There is no point in debating with him because none of it makes sense.

 

[CSF77]

He isnt missing the point. He is ignoring it. There is no point in debating with him because none of it makes sense.

Sounds like a Trump supporter.

 

[Castor76]

Sounds like a Trump supporter.

Or a Schiff witness

 

[CSF77]

Or a Schiff witness

Case in point.

I'll leave this one alone. Napalm went out in nam.

 

[Omeletpants]

Or a Schiff witness

LOLOLOLOLOLOO

Scam