Cubs Sign Ben Zobrist

SilenceS

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This reeks of Mark Derosa. Zobrist just parlayed a good team into a big contract.
 

chibears55

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I don't want to overreact.................Not liking these moves. This stinks of someone grabbing all of their old favs and tossing them together hoping to relive past glory. I can't recall that ever working out well for teams in any sport. Better to sell a year early than buy a year late. The Cubs are doing the exact wrong thing. If they don't win the WS this season or next......
Hmmm. Didn't someone just say that the other day

Lester, Ross, Lackey, Zobrist

Yep, i did
 

Mr. Cub

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I can't believe we traded Castro for 2 fucking scrubs. SCRUBS!

FIRE THEO!
 

chibears55

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Yes they got older but you all do realize the only guy they lost was Castro so far..

Not like they tore down what they built in their system. .
Those guys are all still there ..

Cubs are going for it now with the addition of Lackey and Zobrist

Zobrist is going to start everyday and mostly at 2B

All they need now is a CFer... im still hoping that go all the way in with this and it still Heyward

And again all the others are still there except for castro, so they basically traded Castro for Zobrist and a couple of minor leaguers. .
 

czman

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Yes they got older but you all do realize the only guy they lost was Castro so far..
No they didn't. They lost draft resources. They lost money they could have spent elsewhere. When you sign one guy, you don't sign someone else and that matters. It matters a lot. When you trade for one guy you don't trade for someone else.

I think there were much better moves out there and when all of the dust clears I suspect it will be obvious that there were.
 

chibears55

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No they didn't. They lost draft resources. They lost money they could have spent elsewhere. When you sign one guy, you don't sign someone else and that matters. It matters a lot. When you trade for one guy you don't trade for someone else.

I think there were much better moves out there and when all of the dust clears I suspect it will be obvious that there were.
Huh ?
 

CSF77

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6:55pm: Jon Heyman of CBS Sports tweets that Zobrist receives full no-trade protection in his first three years of the deal. The New York Post’s Ken Davidoff reports that Zobrist can block trades to eight clubs in the final year of his deal (links to Twitter). He also adds that Zobrist receives a $2MM signing bonus, $10MM in 2016, $16MM in both 2017 and 2018, then $12MM in 2019.
 

CSF77

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Defensive metrics were down on Zobrist this season, though one has to wonder whether or not knee surgery that he underwent early in the year sapped his range and led to the uncharacteristically low ratings placed upon his glove by Defensive Runs Saved and Ultimate Zone Rating. Zobrist has typically graded out as a well-above-average defender in the outfield corners and at second base, and he also comes with big league experience at shortstop, third base and first base. That defensive versatility is one of the reasons that he was such a hot commodity on this winter’s free-agent market, with upwards of a dozen clubs connected to him at various times.
 

chibears55

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@GDubCub: Zobrist salaries: $10m in '16, then $16m, $16m, $12m + $2m bonus on front end.
 

beckdawg

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Think people need to relax a bit. First of all, this doesn't really hurt the cubs long term as Torres or Happ likely is your 2B in 3-4 years anyways. As for Zobrist, he's a career .265/.355/.431 hitter who hit .276/.359/.450 last season. You're not buying his power or frankly his speed anymore. To me he's essentially a poor mans Fowler from 2015 with similar on base and slightly less power/speed. He's contact and walks and that's unlikely to decline much over the next couple of years. Would I take Fowler or him over the next 4 years? I'd probably go with Fowler but who knows what he gets. I mean if Zobrist is getting $14 mil/season you have to imagine Fowler's target is $20 mil or more per season. Additionally, from what I've read this move basically doesn't stop the cubs from a potential pursuit of Heyward. So, you're not losing much there either.

Now, if you want to talk about trading Castro low I think that's a valid point. However, one could argue this might not be trading low. Full disclosure, I would have kept Castro and maybe moved him at the deadline hopefully after he rebounded. However, to play devils advocate here, Castro hit .245/.284/.347 in 2013 and hit .265/.296/.375 last season. He moved off SS where his contract was a good value and over to 2B where he's not as valuable. He makes $7.9 mil next season, $9.9 mil the following, $10.9 mil, $11.9 mil, and finally $16 mil/$1 mil buy out. The question becomes, what does he give you? $8 mil/season is worth roughly 1 fWAR. If Castro is if he's 2011/12/14 Castro that's a steal. If he's 13/15 Castro... not so much. Streamer pegs him at 1.4 fWAR next season which pretty much hedges the difference between 2014/15. For the sake of argument, let's call him 2 fWAR. At that price he's an ok buy but I don't think you consider him a huge steal. Additionally, if you are talking about any other 2 fWAR player on a 97 win team that's going to be the first name people talk about replacing.

Now, to be fair, Zobrist was also a 2.1 fWAR player last season. However, he only played in 126 games. And the 3 seasons prior to last he was 5.8, 5.0, and 5.5. And the thing is, it's not like Zobrist relied on huge power/speed numbers to get there. If we exclude the 5.8 year where he hit 20 HRs and stole 14 bases, the other two he was a 12/11 and 10/10 combo. From a hitting perspective he's just a bit below average power/speed and great on base. His defense was also pretty good those years but down some what at 2B last year. Without digging into the why my guess is injuries played a role.

Either way, I mean I get it if people dislike trading Castro but I also think some have team colored glasses for him. If you're willing to buy 2014 Castro, you should be able to buy 80% of 2014 Zobrist which is likely a 3-4 fWAR player over the next 2-3 years. Castro's best season was 3.1. And more to the point, whatever Castro is in 2016, he's not a lead off hitter. Whatever the cubs could have done required getting one. So, you're essentially talking Span or Fowler for CF in FA. Not sure anyone else works there. If you're asking me Span or Zobrist likely at similar prices I'm taking Zobrist. I already mentioned Fowler vs Zobrist. And lastly, think it's worth noting that having a couple of vets around the club house isn't a bad thing. They lost one in Fowler to FA. Zobrist is a winner and by all indications a great teammate. That doesn't go onto a scorecard but if you listen to anything that Rizzo and Bryant said during the season it was that Ross who as a player was kind of shit kept the club house loose and likely made everyone else play better. Obviously that has some value and given Ross likely retires after next season having some additional leaders around isn't a bad thing.
 

Ari Bear

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Wow we give them Castro and we get a average relief pitcher in return. Don't we have several of those already?
 

Rise

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I'm not happy. Such a Chicago sports thing to do to sign extremely old players. We spent all these years to build a young team and now we are going to rely on Grandpas.

I'm actually on with basically dumping Castro but the guys we chose to sign makes no sense to me. Father time is undefeated.

Finally why do we need to be so cheap? Cubs make a ton of money, spend on quality for once and win the damn thing.
 

beckdawg

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I'm not happy. Such a Chicago sports thing to do to sign extremely old players. We spent all these years to build a young team and now we are going to rely on Grandpas.

I'm actually on with basically dumping Castro but the guys we chose to sign makes no sense to me. Father time is undefeated.

Finally why do we need to be so cheap? Cubs make a ton of money, spend on quality for once and win the damn thing.
You realize the cubs have a top 30 or so SS prospect who's probably 2-3 years away right? They also have Happ who's been working at 2B in instructs and was the #8 pick in the draft. This literally does nothing to stop them long term because unless Castro seriously turned things around he wasn't really in their long term plans anyways. And that says nothing of Baez who others here love way more than I do as a 2B option.
 

Parade_Rain

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No they didn't. They lost draft resources. They lost money they could have spent elsewhere. When you sign one guy, you don't sign someone else and that matters. It matters a lot. When you trade for one guy you don't trade for someone else.

I think there were much better moves out there and when all of the dust clears I suspect it will be obvious that there were.
Are you sitting in the Winter meetings? If you aren't in the negotiations, thinking there were better moves out there is pie in the sky nonsense.
 
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