Cubs Sign Ben Zobrist

[SilenceS]

First two years, primary spot is 2B and LF when Schwarber is C. After that becomes Util. Util can be an every day player with as many spots as he plays. All the pros love what the Cubs have done e, yet here you are joining in the wailing and gnashing of teeth. You forget intangibles, locker room, leadership, etc. You haven't addressed it, because you know Castro doesn't have that.

Isn't that why we have David Ross? You know the broken down catcher we need around to appease Lester? Yet again, I have the right to not like it. You seem to miss that point because it doesn't match your opinion. We will see who is right in the end


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[Rise]

How does that limit them? They literally signed Lackey for 2 years and 4 years on Zobrist is hardly franchise changing. I mean your post made it sound as though they'd dealt away a lot of their youth for a ride with crusty old vets. If Zobrist is shit, you still have Baez. If Baez is shit you still have Alcantara. If Alcantara is shit you still have a number of guys down the line. And all they've committed on the two is $30 mil. Would you have preferred Zimmermann at $22 mil/season and whatever you can get for $8 mil? You're sort of banking on them being bad when in Lackey's case he's coming off a pretty decent year and if you prorate Zobrist year over a full season it's not really bad either.

To me it comes down to the fact that there aren't a lot of lead off hitters out there. Last year one of the reasons they specifically traded for Fowler was to be that lead off hitter. Most of the comments at the time were lukewarm on Fowler. Only 46 players last season had an OBP over .350. The list of FA who meet that criteria are Jason Heyward and Ben Zobrist. If we expand it slightly you get Dexter Fowler(.346). If we expand it to names in trade talks it's Brett Gardner(.343), Ben Revere(.342), and Ender Inciarte(.338). That's the list. No one else as far as I'm aware is rumored to be on the market.

That doesn't leave you a lot of options. You can make an argument for anyone on that list I think and from the reports the cubs may still be after Heyward. But as for the others vs Zobrist, it basically comes down to cost in players or money in the case of Fowler. Fowler's going to get more money than Zobrist. It's just a matter of how much. And as for the trade candidates, I think if all went well Inciarte is a guy i would have liked to have had but he obviously was dealt away for Miller.

As for Lackey, I mean it seems pretty obvious this series of moves relied on that move being cheap. If you sign say Zimmermann for $22 mil/season Zobrist doesn't happen and you're probably having to trade for someone. And maybe Zobrist and Lackey just end up old and not useful but it's not always that simple. Zobrist in particular has a game that's decently well insulated from aging. If we compare Zobrist to say Ichiro, Zobrist walks a bit more but both are low k hitters without much power. Ichiro from 35-38 was 5.4 fWAR, 4.7 fWAR, 0 and 2.6. The 0 largely had to do with his defense falling off a cliff that year.

I get it, I just don't like it. I was hoping they would spend the money, more than 30 million and lock it down. Get the ace, get the leadoff, get the cf, and win the damn thing finally. I don't get why they are so cash strapped, especially with the new tv deal incoming.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Isn't that why we have David Ross? You know the broken down catcher we need around to appease Lester? Yet again, I have the right to not like it. You seem to miss that point because it doesn't match your opinion. We will see who is right in the end


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You quickly forgot I was a "Castro apologist" according to our favorite board Castro-hater. People here can complain that Theo is off his rocker, but what he has done doesn't really deviate from the plan and attempts to win a WS. You must not have caught on that Castro was never part of the core or you wouldn't be that shocked.

 

[SilenceS]

You quickly forgot I was a "Castro apologist" according to our favorite board Castro-hater. People here can complain that Theo is off his rocker, but what he has done doesn't really deviate from the plan and attempts to win a WS. You must not have caught on that Castro was never part of the core or you wouldn't be that shocked.

He was signed to be part of the core. They changed their plans when Russell got traded for. I'm not shocked he was traded. I'm shocked on what they got for him. He is a borderline starter/long reliever for an everyday starter


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[Parade_Rain]

He was signed to be part of the core. They changed their plans when Russell got traded for. I'm not shocked he was traded. I'm shocked on what they got for him. He is a borderline starter/long reliever for an everyday starter


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He was signed by Hendry. I don't recall Jedstein ever suggesting Castro was part of the core. Before all the players came up this year, Rizzo was even discussed on a much higher level.

 

[beckdawg]

I get it, I just don't like it. I was hoping they would spend the money, more than 30 million and lock it down. Get the ace, get the leadoff, get the cf, and win the damn thing finally. I don't get why they are so cash strapped, especially with the new tv deal incoming.

Well truth be told I don't "love" Zobrist. I didn't like the idea last offseason of trading for him so signing him a year later doesn't thrill me. I just don't really see a ton of other options. I think it basically comes down to them needing that lead off hitter. And if rumors are also true on Heyward which also still makes sense, you rule out most of your OF options. So, Zobrist playing 2B makes sense and that in turn means you have to move Castro. Obviously not ideal but if they do get both Zobrist and Heyward and you put them in front of Schwarber, Bryant and Rizzo that is some serious on base. Schwarber was the worst last season at .355 and those 5 would basically be 5 of the top 43 players in terms of OBP.

It's obviously some what of a gamble more so with Zobrist than Lackey. I honestly think you would have a hard time arguing against Lackey for 2 years at $16 mil a pop. Even if he's some what bad he's probably going to give you 200 innings which likely means he's 1-1.5 fWAR. With Zobrist, you're talking about a guy who historically has been a pretty elite 2B defender and who is one of the better lead off hitters in baseball. If those things continue he's a steal. If his defense falls off he's probably fairly priced. If both his defense and his hitting fall off your over paying. But like I said, I think he's a some what safe bet to not be horrible as a hitter thru 38.

As for why they are cash strapped, I could really go into it but the sale of the team really fucked some things up not to mention that splitting the tv deal between WGN and CSN sorta fucks with the ability to get that tv money they want. And while it is eventually coming the CSN portion isn't free until 2019. So, that sort of plays into this. That's 3 years away which is essentially when those two contracts come off the books. Also, don't forget the cubs have dumped a fair chunk into international free agents thus far. Think they are over $10 mil and have been linked to 5-6 cubans who are still available.

 

[Rise]

Well truth be told I don't "love" Zobrist. I didn't like the idea last offseason of trading for him so signing him a year later doesn't thrill me. I just don't really see a ton of other options. I think it basically comes down to them needing that lead off hitter. And if rumors are also true on Heyward which also still makes sense, you rule out most of your OF options. So, Zobrist playing 2B makes sense and that in turn means you have to move Castro. Obviously not ideal but if they do get both Zobrist and Heyward and you put them in front of Schwarber, Bryant and Rizzo that is some serious on base. Schwarber was the worst last season at .355 and those 5 would basically be 5 of the top 43 players in terms of OBP.

It's obviously some what of a gamble more so with Zobrist than Lackey. I honestly think you would have a hard time arguing against Lackey for 2 years at $16 mil a pop. Even if he's some what bad he's probably going to give you 200 innings which likely means he's 1-1.5 fWAR. With Zobrist, you're talking about a guy who historically has been a pretty elite 2B defender and who is one of the better lead off hitters in baseball. If those things continue he's a steal. If his defense falls off he's probably fairly priced. If both his defense and his hitting fall off your over paying. But like I said, I think he's a some what safe bet to not be horrible as a hitter thru 38.

As for why they are cash strapped, I could really go into it but the sale of the team really fucked some things up not to mention that splitting the tv deal between WGN and CSN sorta fucks with the ability to get that tv money they want. And while it is eventually coming the CSN portion isn't free until 2019. So, that sort of plays into this. That's 3 years away which is essentially when those two contracts come off the books. Also, don't forget the cubs have dumped a fair chunk into international free agents thus far. Think they are over $10 mil and have been linked to 5-6 cubans who are still available.

If we get Heyward I'll be much happier. Still want that ace but I don't see it happening. I knew the tv money was something like 2019 but was hoping they had enough to do more now. Maybe they still do? I feel a little better now I was writing off Hayward but I now have hope!

 

[Ari Bear]

Emotion has nothing to do with signing a 35 year old player to 4 year deal. He parlayed a good team into a big contract. Period. He never gets that contract if he stays on the A's


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I'm sure a lot had to do with his long history with Maddon.

 

[beckdawg]

If we get Heyward I'll be much happier. Still want that ace but I don't see it happening. I knew the tv money was something like 2019 but was hoping they had enough to do more now. Maybe they still do? I feel a little better now I was writing off Hayward but I now have hope!

From what I've read the Zobrist thing doesn't stop them from going after Heyward. Essentially, trading Zobrist for Castro is just ~$4 mil season more for your 2B assuming the cubs wouldn't have picked up Castro's option in 2020. I believe it was Levine who was reporting the cubs were at $161 over 7 years on their offer for Price. So, by not signing Price they essentially turned that one player into Lackey($16 mil/season) and Zobrist($4 mil over Castro) and still have around $3 mil to play with. Presumably they had set aside some amount of money for a CF even with Price in the fold. Hard to say how much that is. However, you have to imagine $15 mil is a ball park start on anyone in FA they might be looking at. So, the additional $3 mil puts you at $18 mil/season and some are pegging Heyward at 10 years $200 mil.

Theo also said they might play a similar move of sign and trade which presumably seems to point to Heyward as CF is really their only option not tackled and he fits so many of the criteria they talked about going into the offseason. Supposedly Cahill wanted another shot to start and Warren looks like he might be a decent #5 type if given the chance. So, you realistically could try to deal Hammel for something and run with those two. Hammel at $9 mil looks pretty cheap in this FA market. Outside of Heyward, I'm just not really sure where you go. Zobrist as your lead off guy sort of makes Fowler unnecessary though I suppose you could still argue for Zobrist in the 2 hole or someone like Jackson/Span as your 7th/8th hitter.

It all sounds good in theory but in practice who the hell knows. I don't think anyone had Zobrist connected with the cubs early on.

 

[SilenceS]

He was signed by Hendry. I don't recall Jedstein ever suggesting Castro was part of the core. Before all the players came up this year, Rizzo was even discussed on a much higher level.

What? They signed him to the 60 million dollar contract. Hendry was long gone. They said numerous times him and Rizzo was the core going forward. They also said they would not give no trade clauses. That didn't happen as well

 

[SilenceS]

He was signed by Hendry. I don't recall Jedstein ever suggesting Castro was part of the core. Before all the players came up this year, Rizzo was even discussed on a much higher level.

What? They signed him to the 60 million dollar contract. Hendry was long gone. They said numerous times him and Rizzo was the core going forward. They also said they would not give no trade clauses. That didn't happen as well

 

[Boobaby1]

What? They signed him to the 60 million dollar contract. Hendry was long gone. They said numerous times him and Rizzo was the core going forward. They also said they would not give no trade clauses. That didn't happen as well

Bottom line is the Cubs filled three voids so far. A middle of the order pitcher with a solid ERA, a bullpen man with a very good ERA that can also start, and a guy that plays multiple positions with a career .355OBP, who will probably lead-off, or at worst bat 2nd.

I doubt seriously that the Cubs are done, and after 97 wins, a little tweaking of the line-up was needed. Plus, they haven't changed much of last years starters.

The front office told everyone what they were targeting, and now, an outfielder and hopefully a young starter are what's left to fill.

I don't know why everyone is so shocked?

 

[85Bears]

i hope we get swept by the dbags and castro hits a walk off hr in game 7 of the world series.

wtf?

 

[JimJohnson]

Why do people keep assuming that just because Cahill wants a shot at the starting rotation that he will get that? This isn't high school ball where kids get to pick and choose their positions. This is the fucking MLB. Cahill will do whatever the fuck Maddon tells him to.

 

[85Bears]

Why do people keep assuming that just because Cahill wants a shot at the starting rotation that he will get that? This isn't high school ball where kids get to pick and choose their positions. This is the fucking MLB. Cahill will do whatever the fuck Maddon tells him to.

If our starting 5 are plagued by injury, he WILL get a shot at the starting rotation. That's the whole point in signing him. He can eat innings, and if the big arms start to go south he can start. Obviously we don't WANT to be in a situation where he has to be one of the starters, but it's an insurance policy...

 

[JimJohnson]

If our starting 5 are plagued by injury, he WILL get a shot at the starting rotation. That's the whole point in signing him. He can eat innings, and if the big arms start to go south he can start. Obviously we don't WANT to be in a situation where he has to be one of the starters, but it's an insurance policy...

If there is an injury then of course he can fill in.

 

[Parade_Rain]

What? They signed him to the 60 million dollar contract. Hendry was long gone. They said numerous times him and Rizzo was the core going forward. They also said they would not give no trade clauses. That didn't happen as well

You'll notice Zobrist actually hit the Mets' pitching.

 

[chibears55]

Why do people keep assuming that just because Cahill wants a shot at the starting rotation that he will get that? This isn't high school ball where kids get to pick and choose their positions. This is the fucking MLB. Cahill will do whatever the fuck Maddon tells him to.

Im guessing that what they told him before he agreed to sign

Epstein said he is going to be stretched out in ST
So, my guess is he going to get stretched out in beginning of season in minors, then start a few games and then be called up

 

[JimJohnson]

Im guessing that what they told him before he agreed to sign

Epstein said he is going to be stretched out in ST
So, my guess is he going to get stretched out in beginning of season in minors, then start a few games and then be called up

A team has 5 starters. Right now we have Arrieta, Lester, Lackey, Hamel, Hendricks, and now Cahill? My math might be off but that's 6 guys. So unless Epstein plans to trade Hamel and doesn't plan on trading for a young TOR, then I don't see how Cahill cracks the rotation.

 

[chibears55]

A team has 5 starters. Right now we have Arrieta, Lester, Lackey, Hamel, Hendricks, and now Cahill? My math might be off but that's 6 guys. So unless Epstein plans to trade Hamel and doesn't plan on trading for a young TOR, then I don't see how Cahill cracks the rotation.

Anything can happen during a long season. ..

I said he was going to get stretched out in ST and minors at beginning of season. .

when he ready, there lots of ways he can end up in the rotation

Injuries, Hammel or Hendricks can suck, Hammel or Hendricks can get traded before deadline. ..

He was signed as depth, not sure why your against it