David Montgomery

[Broc]

the exchange between @MontanaXXIII and anyone in this thread is pretty entertaining.

It's the same dude who said like 3 weeks ago that Anthony Miller needs to be CUT. Now he's saying that Jordan Howard was never as good as Montgomery is.

Just went back and read it.. good stuff ?.

We got some real gems on this board. ?

 

[wazzupi]

1. They compare on the same basis. So if one only includes YAC past LoS then it would do so for both in which case Howard still remains a yard better.

2. You 2nd question is irrelevant because I compared Howard 2018 and Monty 2019 playing behind the Bears line. Further, Howard got less help from the OL as his yards before contact was lower than Monty as it was 0.96 vs 1.27. So Howard gained more yards after contact despite getting hit before Monty on average.

3. The purpose of a carry is to gain yards. Doesn't matter if you go north and south or if you go east and west. The point is if Monty's breaking tackles was actually effective his YAC would be higher than Howards. Instead he is breaking tackles but really going nowhere.

That's not how that works. If a defender isnt able to get past the los on more occasions they'll always have a lower yac most broken tackles occur when a player is able to reach a certain speed only a rare few can break a tackle or gain yac at a standstill or if they're moving slow.

Howard goes through contact and what I mean is he is like a wrecking ball if he doesn't see a huge hooe he'll try to slam full speed through it.Montgomery tried to avoid it all together and slip through a crack Montgomery is a finesse back yet still has enough power to break the tackle or drag defenders for extra yardage.

This years oline vs last years is drastically different in terms of performance and

 

[wazzupi]

the exchange between @MontanaXXIII and anyone in this thread is pretty entertaining.

It's the same dude who said like 3 weeks ago that Anthony Miller needs to be CUT. Now he's saying that Jordan Howard was never as good as Montgomery is.

Problem with Miller is drops and he goes rogue on his routes.

 

[HeHateMe]

Problem with Miller is drops and he goes rogue o his routes.

That can be fixed with coaching, not with cutting.

Thanks.

 

[wazzupi]

That can be fixed with coaching, not with cutting.

Thanks.

I never said cut him. So I agree

 

[HeHateMe]

I never said cut him. So I agree

Cool


Thanks.

XD

 

[coolio]

I don’t understand why Nagy kept checking on Kareem hunt instead of signing him. Atleast we could have gotten a comp pick out of it. Kareem Hunt is a difference maker.

 

[BearFanJohn]

Didn’t love the pick b/c I think Howard was just as good. Montgomery wasn’t more efficient or productive than Howard. So if he was drafted to “fit” the offense better than Howard, the pick was probably a waste. None of this is a slight toward Howard or Montgomery. But the pick, as it appears to be now, is a bit of a head scratcher.

The only caveat is that the o-line was worse with Montgomery this year. And Nagy’s play calling was also suspect. So, I think the jury is still out to a degree.

 

[Broc]

Not sure how expressing the truth is hate. The OL gives him more than they gave Howard and he is producing less. That is just what the data says. Yes he makes guys miss and fights hard but since he has zero explosion it has the effect of running in quicksand.

In the end, once the OL improves he I expect his numbers will look better but he has not flashed anything that would suggest he should be extended beyond this initial contract.

Didn't mean to imply it was just you expressing hate, but rather like I said to HHM I meant more generally..

I quoted you mainly to disagree with your assessment of Monty. In my opinion he's had enough flash plays to show he'll be a serviceable RB for us, he just hasn't had the opportunities to have more of them because the OL sucks so bad.

Also lets not act like Howard was some amazingly explosive talent. He was pretty pedestrian in terms of explosion/speed and had zero shake to speak of. He had good vision though and was dependable. Don't get me wrong he was certainly serviceable for us but let's not go overboard just because you're not a fan of Monty.

 

[EDPeezy]

They would actually compliment each other pretty well

At least better than Montgomery and Cohen.

 

[sevvy]

I honestly can't evaluate Montgomery considering we hand him the ball and expect him to gain yards running behind 5 folding chairs.

 

[EDPeezy]

I’m tired of reading that

You can see what he is. It doesn’t take Paul Brown to see what he is at this point, There’s enough of a sample to see what Montgomery is. He’s not explosive. He’s a dancer. He doesn’t hit the hole. Has decent hands. He’s slippery, but his lack of explosion sort of counters his ability to break tackles. constantly shifting and not necessarily moving forward.

Low end starter. And that may be generous.

I was actually fed up with Cohen up until the last month or so. He’s turned it on though and is accepting he’s gonna have to take contact. And not just constantly running toward the sideline. He’s manned up. I’ll give him credit. A month ago I was done with him.

monty I’ve never been neccesarily upset with the way I was Cohen. I knew Cohen could be better than what he was. He was just being too soft and trying to save himself. I’m not sure Montgomery is really anything more than what he’s shown. He can produce with pieces around him. He’s definitely not a top end back though.

 

[dennehy]

For me, unless you have a top 5 RB like Barkley or AP, the best way to go is to draft mid round guys who fit your system and just use them through their rookie contract. If you get lucky and hit a home run, great. But put the resources into OL. A good OL makes all but the worst RB look alright, and a bad OL makes all but the best backs look like shit.

Howard is a good one cut, outside zone back. He doesn't really fit Nagy's system, they weren't going to keep him past this year anyway (rookie deal up) and they got a 5th rounder for him, much more than they'd get from any comp pick formula because he's unlikely to get a lucrative contract. Monty was a bit disappointing this year but he was also part of an epic systemic fail that flowed through the whole offense.

 

[remydat]

That's not how that works. If a defender isnt able to get past the los on more occasions they'll always have a lower yac most broken tackles occur when a player is able to reach a certain speed only a rare few can break a tackle or gain yac at a standstill or if they're moving slow.

Howard goes through contact and what I mean is he is like a wrecking ball if he doesn't see a huge hooe he'll try to slam full speed through it.Montgomery tried to avoid it all together and slip through a crack Montgomery is a finesse back yet still has enough power to break the tackle or drag defenders for extra yardage.

This years oline vs last years is drastically different in terms of performance and

Once again the data doesn't prove this. Howard had 0.96 yards before contact last year. Monty has 1.23 this year. So the data says Howard was getting hit more behind the LoS than Monty.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it true. Howard was stuffed at the line more than Monty. He just did a better job of turning it into positive yards.

 

[remydat]

Didn't mean to imply it was just you expressing hate, but rather like I said to HHM I meant more generally..

I quoted you mainly to disagree with your assessment of Monty. In my opinion he's had enough flash plays to show he'll be a serviceable RB for us, he just hasn't had the opportunities to have more of them because the OL sucks so bad.

Also lets not act like Howard was some amazingly explosive talent. He was pretty pedestrian in terms of explosion/speed and had zero shake to speak of. He had good vision though and was dependable. Don't get me wrong he was certainly serviceable for us but let's not go overboard just because you're not a fan of Monty.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I said he is just a guy and nothing special. That isn't all that different than you saying he is serviceable. My point is I have seen nothing that suggests he will last beyond his first contract which again is what you do with serviceable backs. You let them play out their contracts and then they become too expensive relative to their talent level so you replace them with a cheaper option. Rinse and repeat.

Also, I have not said anything about Howard beyond the fact that the numbers state he was better last year than Monty this year despite having comparable or worse blocking. So not sure what exactly I said that is going overboard.

Also it is wrong to say I am not a fan of Monty. I neither like or dislike him. I am simply saying the numbers are what they are. I have no reason to hate him nor do I have a reason to pretend like he was better than Howard when statistically speaking he isn't. I am simply commenting on what he has done which is not personal.

 

[FrankieLyrical]

This may be a super casual take, but I'd like for him to just hit the hole sometimes. I love that he can be elusive, but he seems to cut as soon as he gets the ball handed to him.

 

[remydat]

No you are correct. More dancing with the stars than NFL running back. He cuts with little to no explosion or forward acceleration. So he is side stepping or moving laterally. So Monty cuts east or west and then only after the cut does he look to go north.

Howard by contrast was the classic one cut runner. He had no moves but what he did well was his cuts were diagonal ie he was moving forward as well as to the left or right so while not the fastest his natural momentum was north north west or north north east.

 

[dabears70]

LOL. Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me.

I mean if you consider telling the truth arrogance then okay.

 

[dabears70]

Follow up question:

Can a RB ever be good without a good Oline? Or do 100% of good NFL running backs also have a good Oline?

Hell yes, some of the great ones were still great with bad o-lines but i don't think anyone is saying Monty is the next great one. Barry Sanders didn't have many good o-lines.

 

[coolio]

Howard, Alshon, just one more offensive piece we should just give the Eagles then we'll officially be their farm system.