Fangio vs. Pagano Defense

Les Grossman

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Good high level description of the different philosophies between the two. I think most knew this about what Pagano's defeense do, but the more interesting tidbit is how Fangio's defense is described and maybe not as "vanilla" as most people think.


"I think Fangio is the hardest coach in the NFL to play against, the hardest defensive play-caller. What he does that's so difficult, they play two-deep, zone looks. They matchup out of the zone so it's man-to-man principles in the zone. They have different match rules that we could get into, but we'll get caught in the weeds if we do," Benoit explained. "Suffice to say, it's hard to understand the match rules on the fly but it's two-deep zone looks. They're very blurry so you're not sure what kind of zone it is, because those safeties and linebackers move around just ever so much. And when you factor all that in and add in a Khalil Mack who's getting to the quarterback quickly, that's where you get the interceptions. The ball comes out off schedule for the offense against a blurry, unpredictable look.

"What Chuck Pagano does is try and overwhelm you with pressure. Instead of blurry zone coverage he plays man-to-man, because almost any blitz in the NFL or any blitz at any level has man-to-man principles behind it. It has to. And he's going to bring fast pressure to you. That's a very different style of approach. It's not going to create as many turnovers because man-to-man defenders don't get as many turnovers because their eyes are on the man and not the ball."

Problematic for this is the Bears corners being guys who thrive in zone perhaps more so than they do in man coverage.
"The other thing is, I think it's going to expose those Bears cornerbacks. Kyle Fuller is an excellent player and I think Prince Amukamara is a very good player in a matchup zone scheme where they have some help from the safety and they can keep their eyes on the quarterback more," Benoit continued. "I don't think they're pure man-to-man defenders downfield, though, and that system under Pagano is going to ask them to do that and they'll be good but not great at it."





https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-regression-and-here-are-all-the-reasons-why/
 

bearmick

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Fuller has always been a natural zone corner. I don't know why you'd change that just to blitz more when they really don't need to. I hope Pagano doesn't fuck with what they've been doing too much.
 

legendxofxlink

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Definitely right on Fuller unless he figured out how to turn his head, but Prince is good m2m. He played a lot of it last year.

I’m not sure how he is assuming Paganos play calling. He said he took a lot of ideas and what worked well from Fangio.

Anyway, Mel Tucker would have this defense in the top 10. Not much to worry about unless injuries pile up.
 

Midwaymonster75

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Problematic for this is the Bears corners being guys who thrive in zone perhaps more so than they do in man coverage.
"The other thing is, I think it's going to expose those Bears cornerbacks. Kyle Fuller is an excellent player and I think Prince Amukamara is a very good player in a matchup zone scheme where they have some help from the safety and they can keep their eyes on the quarterback more," Benoit continued. "I don't think they're pure man-to-man defenders downfield, though, and that system under Pagano is going to ask them to do that and they'll be good but not great at it."





https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-regression-and-here-are-all-the-reasons-why/

This has been a concern since I heard Pagano was the new DC. I really hope this isnt an issue.
 

Aquineas

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Good analysis. I don't disagree with the analysis about the differences in defensive coordinators. We'll see; everyone has opinions. I can't wait until the speculation is done and the playing begins.
 

botfly10

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I know this could turn out amazing

but I generally don't like the Pagano approach. I don't like the boom and bust tendency. I don't like the strain it put on the secondary and I don't like how many people have their back to the play.

We'll see how it unfolds, but I much prefer the Fangio approach
 

jive

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Fuller is more of an off-the-receiver zone CB, but Amukamara is able to play man and tends to play closer to the receiver anyway. Pagano has a decent history of developing DBs, so it's possible he might be able to develop a new dimension out of Fuller. Luckily, we have a guy with tremendous range and instinct in Eddie Jackson that will provide support over the top.
 

Payton!34

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I know this could turn out amazing

but I generally don't like the Pagano approach. I don't like the boom and bust tendency. I don't like the strain it put on the secondary and I don't like how many people have their back to the play.

We'll see how it unfolds, but I much prefer the Fangio approach



My problem with the constant blitzing is the vulnerability to the screen and run checkdowns not to mention mobile qb’s. The first pre season game, the panthers dropped off to rb’s almost all game and it worked almost every time! I just don’t think we need to blitz as much with our front seven! It’s boom or buts but then again it worked in 85 but today’s game has figured that out! I hope I’m wrong but it does worry me a little bit bc Fangio was so successful. I also believe corners are just as important as pass rushers bc they’re involved in every pass play in one way or another. If your corners lock their receivers down it makes the guys work up front that much more easy but same could be said for the other way around but looking at the effective rate at getting to qb’s is quite low.

The bears could literally walk down the field by dumping off to two different running backs pretty much all game or quick slants. The home runs are nice and need to be thrown effectively or not, it keeps the defense honest and that’s what these running backs are going to give the offense this year. I think you’ll see Trubisky have much more time and space to run for easy yards.

Here’s to hoping it goes well and maybe even get better with how young our players are! I think we are better with ha ha than Amos.

We do need to clean up the special teams coverage though. I think our return game will be very good if not special no pun intended.

It’s all about balance.
 

xer0h0ur

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Whether Fuller was playing zone or man last season it still tallied up to the 3rd lowest passer rating against quarterbacks faced. I am especially not worried about it when the men in the trenches are killing the QB's timing. I'm not buying this storyline some media are pushing along about expected regression under Pagano. The fact is we have no idea what his approach is going to be given the roster he just inherited. Any DC worth their salt fits their scheme around the talent they have. I doubt Chuck is going to try to re-invent success.
 

jive

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My problem with the constant blitzing is the vulnerability to the screen and run checkdowns not to mention mobile qb’s. The first pre season game, the panthers dropped off to rb’s almost all game and it worked almost every time! I just don’t think we need to blitz as much with our front seven! It’s boom or buts but then again it worked in 85 but today’s game has figured that out! I hope I’m wrong but it does worry me a little bit bc Fangio was so successful. I also believe corners are just as important as pass rushers bc they’re involved in every pass play in one way or another. If your corners lock their receivers down it makes the guys work up front that much more easy but same could be said for the other way around but looking at the effective rate at getting to qb’s is quite low.
True, and it's also vulnerable to quick slants and hot routes. Let's hope that Pagano is able to make in-game adjustments if that happens.
 

jive

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I think the success of this new scheme will come down to Eddie Jackson and HCD. I'm not that concerned with Eddie Jackson because he is a beast. If HCD can return to Pro Bowl form, then we're set. If these guys can stop big plays, and limit the action in front of them, it will allow the rest of the guys to play riskier. Much of the success of Pagano's aggressive style in BAL was because of Ed Reed. His ability and range covered mistakes that were from aggressiveness. If a CB got burnt from playing too close, Reed would be there to bail him out even if he was 20 yards away. I think Jackson also has that type of range.

As far as HCD, I hope Pagano works wonders with him like he has with other DBs under his watch. He took late round DBs like Antoine Bethea and Dawan Landry and made them productive players. Mike Adams, a UDFA, became a Pro Bowl player under his watch. Clinton-Dix is probably the most athletic of the bunch, and I'm looking forward to what Pagano can do with him.
 

Starion

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I read this earlier too and agree that it raises an alarm.

I'm resting somewhat easy however knowing how successful Pagano was in BAL and that when he was killing it there, Pagano actually blitzed about the same if not a bit LESS THAN Fangio did!

Now the preseason will include way more blitzes than we'll probably see in real games b/c he's practicing and letting guys try this stuff out, while testing the backup CBs & Safeties (also LBs). So expect to see em get burnt a lot more in preseason but I'm hopeful this won't be a regular or predictable boom or bust scenario. I too was a fan of Fangio's disguising looks. We'll see!
 

Bearly

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There will be more big plays for and against the D. Hopefully the O puts teams in a hole sothe dogs can play. I don't prefer one style to the other as long as executed well. Pagano secondaries sacrifice the CBs a bit but are also friendly to the safeties so I wouldn't say it's unfriendly to the secondary with hurried throws etc.

We had a ball bounce our way turnover year in 2018 so I don't expect to match it but this D gets them with disruption. I'd have liked Fangio to be a little more aggressive at times and Pagano may be a bit overly so but we haven't seen what he can do with our specific personnel yet so I won't assume too much, except that he is generally more attacking, until a few games in.
 

DrGonzo

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I saw this article last night and it sounds legit on paper but I'm not going to worry yet.

"[Pagano's] not going to create as many turnovers because man-to-man defenders don't get as many turnovers because their eyes are on the man and not the ball" sounds like one of those truisms that makes perfect sense on paper but ultimately doesn't mean much irl.

Maybe Pagano will blitz less than in past years because he will get more pressure from the DL anyway, especially if dropping the OLBs into coverage less frequently. (I do hope he doesn't drop the corner blitzes Fangio used so effectively).

Maybe the new look D will lead the league in turnovers again and maybe it won't. My money is still on the Bears averaging more ppg whether they score off turnovers, by making kicks they would have missed last year, or by the offense scheme and personnel finally hitting their stride.

This might finally be a Bears offense that can win a game on its own like the one in Miami last year where the defense got pantsed.
 

Visionman

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So Pagano is going to take our elite defense, not care about players strengths or weaknesses, and just cram square pegs into round holes for the sake of running "his" defense?
 

Chicago4Life

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this is really a minor issue...pagano is not some young inexperienced guy who doesn't know what to do with a top tier defense like this. Also if i recall pagano and fangio were together in baltimore and even before pagano accepted the job he talked with fangio about it so i'm sure he has a good feel about what he can tinker with and what he can leave alone to an extent.
pagano is a players coach and so i'm sure he's putting his players in positions they feel comfortable with.
 

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I saw this article last night and it sounds legit on paper but I'm not going to worry yet.

"[Pagano's] not going to create as many turnovers because man-to-man defenders don't get as many turnovers because their eyes are on the man and not the ball" sounds like one of those truisms that makes perfect sense on paper but ultimately doesn't mean much irl.

Maybe Pagano will blitz less than in past years because he will get more pressure from the DL anyway, especially if dropping the OLBs into coverage less frequently. (I do hope he doesn't drop the corner blitzes Fangio used so effectively).

Maybe the new look D will lead the league in turnovers again and maybe it won't. My money is still on the Bears averaging more ppg whether they score off turnovers, by making kicks they would have missed last year, or by the offense scheme and personnel finally hitting their stride.

This might finally be a Bears offense that can win a game on its own like the one in Miami last year where the defense got pantsed.
It was easy to say we won't get as many turnovers as an aberration year. The D could be great and the writer could still claim victory. The idea that a pressure D is less likely to create turnovers is a silly one. They are also more likely to give up big plays but make them as well. It's more feast or famine with the balance being determined by the quality of personnel and coaching which of course is a big duh.
 

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