Final Trubisky discussion Podcast covers it all. - Good comments below too

Starion

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https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2...-patrick-mahomes-deshaun-watson-matt-nagy-nfl

Solid listen. Some good points and objective thoughts on Mitch...draft, year 1, year 2, comparables to the others in his draft.

Interesting points on how critical CHI media / fans are. Also realistic valuation of him now & expectations.

Good discussion on the trade up but mostly on value; not so much on the need to trade up or the win vs fleece with Lynch & 49ers. That's in the comments of the article below the podcast.
 

Bearly

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The thing is that no one knows but that narrative is equally viable to one where Pace played himself. Never understood why it was an issue. Pace got the potential franchise QB he wanted after discovering how difficult it was to move up for Wentz or Mariota. I suspect the shock of him drafting a QB at 2 after paying a guy $18m may be part of it. Seems he was an at all costs deception plus he thought he'd get the better part of a year of play from him while a raw Mitch got training.
 

Black Rainbow

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The thing is that no one knows but that narrative is equally viable to one where Pace played himself. Never understood why it was an issue. Pace got the potential franchise QB he wanted after discovering how difficult it was to move up for Wentz or Mariota. I suspect the shock of him drafting a QB at 2 after paying a guy $18m may be part of it. Seems he was an at all costs deception plus he thought he'd get the better part of a year of play from him while a raw Mitch got training.

Or he coulda stayed put and drafted Mahomes...lol.
 

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Or he coulda stayed put and drafted Mahomes...lol.
Back to that, LOL. Sure and you can pick those lottery #s after the drawing too. 1-2% of this board wanted Mahomes before another QB. I was just happy Pace drafted the guy he wanted and it could have been any of the top 3 though Watson was my personal 3rd choice. He took the guy projected in the top 10 and did what he needed to assure that.
 
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dbldrew

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Or he coulda stayed put and drafted Mahomes...lol.
true, but with fox/loggins completely predictable O with shit WR combined with Mahomes very aggressive gunslinger play style, it would of been a complete shit show filled with INTs and most fans would of written him off and called pace an idiot for not drafting Watson or Mitch lol
 

Toast88

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I know people are sick of this conversation, and the talking points have been repeated time and time again. But I actually find the Trubisky draft conversation to be pretty fascinating.

Essentially, we’re using hindsight to justify or denigrate things that we’ll never know were true or not. There’s something kind of beautifully fatalistic about that.

I mean, the meat of it is, which of the players picked will work out? If the Bears’ pick works out more than the 9ers picks, it was justified. If Trubisky ends up being a solid 10+ year pro, it was justified.

Ah, but it’s not so simple, is it? Not when you could’ve had the eventual MVP QB. But what would’ve happened had they done that? And let’s say the Bears stood pat at 3 and still got Trubisky—I fully believe he’d have less pressure on him right now, despite the fact that he still would’ve been a friggin top 3 pick in the draft!

That’s crazy that one spot and a couple of picks to the 9ers can have that much effect.

Those are all exhausted points that have been repeated and repeated, but I actually really like the point brought up by the commenter, which is less discussed—What if the 49ers were going to themselves pick Trubisky?

I have no idea whether there’s merit to that, but I love the argument because, if true, Lynch’s own inexperience and inability to add 2+2 would’ve ironically contributed to him being crowned king of the 2017 Draft. The idiot savant! Love it!! And based on what we know about his reaction afterward, we know that this is absolutely plausible!

Lynch’s decision in that moment could’ve altered the lives of so many people that night, it’s crazy. Consider:

Despite a fawning Washington Post story that tries to re-write history, I know for a stone-cold fact that Trubisky was the #1 QB on the Chiefs’ board. Then-pro-player-personnel-head Brett Veach did indeed love Mahomes, but he was still the little brother in the room, and GM Dorsey, Reid and owner Clark Hunt liked Trubisky. Once Trubisky was off the board, the Chiefs still had a guy they really liked (Mahomes) available. Veach was thrilled. They traded up ahead of the QB-needy teams to get him. The rest is history.

If Lynch drafts Trubisky, or trades that pick to some non-Bears team who does, the Bears potentially draft Watson—I fully believe the Chargers or Cardinals or someone else see the run on QBs and go ahead and get Mahomes in the top 10, not even affording Kansas City a shot at him.

Trubisky ends up in Cleveland or San Francisco.

Watson ends up in Chicago.

Mahomes ends up in LA or Arizona.

Knowing he’s still got time with Alex Smith, Andy Reid waits until the following year to get his QB, or the Chiefs trade for Jimmy Garoppalo.

Think how many people’s lives change with that Lynch/Pace decision potentially. How many GMs’ fates change. Also think about how the national narrative around these young QBs changes.

I know such is the nature of drafts, but I find the thought exercise fascinating. And the above is absolutely incredibly plausible if the Bears don’t trade up.
 
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Bearly

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true, but with fox/loggins completely predictable O with shit WR combined with Mahomes very aggressive gunslinger play style, it would of been a complete shit show filled with INTs and most fans would of written him off and called pace an idiot for not drafting Watson or Mitch lol
I don't think that would have mattered a year later but having the shit show plus Glennon did make it less apparent that we were going for that very early QB.
 

Toast88

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That and NO ONE offered to trade up to 3 for him. Too bad halfempty isn't a GM. Even, now brilliant, KC were willing to roll the dice for another 8 picks.

Agree with you overall—If GMs truly knew Mahomes was going to be the best, he would’ve been #1. He sure as hell wouldn’t have made it to #10. A while ago, I compiled the mock drafts of ALL the major sports networks and websites from pre-draft. They showed overwhelmingly that Trubisky would be the first QB off the board, although *some* did have Watson as that guy. No one had Mahomes first off the board. Hindsight is 20/20. I still maintain that the things that currently make him great (vision and deciphering defenses mid-play) could not been seen on his college tape—they just weren’t there, because of the offense. Doesn’t mean they weren’t there inside his head, but there’s nothing on tape.

But KC stood pat not because they were rolling the dice, but because they didn’t have enough to trade up higher than 10. They went into the draft hoping there wouldn’t be a top 10 run on QBs because they knew they couldn’t compete to get them then.

Remember that KC gave up TWO firsts and a third to move up from #27 to #10. That was their top-out—they couldn’t reasonably get closer
 

Rory Sparrow

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but I actually really like the point brought up by the commenter, which is less discussed—What if the 49ers were going to themselves pick Trubisky?

I guess its amazing to think that a topic has been discussed to death...someone even more stupid comes along and can add their two cents to the conversation.

I'm not sure if I've ever read anything so stupid, so illogical, so antithetical to reality. It would be like watching the 99th documentary on the Sam Bowie/Michael Jordan draft, and the 'commenter' says "What if the Blazers were going to themselves pick Jordan?"
 

Toast88

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I guess its amazing to think that a topic has been discussed to death...someone even more stupid comes along and can add their two cents to the conversation.

I'm not sure if I've ever read anything so stupid, so illogical, so antithetical to reality. It would be like watching the 99th documentary on the Sam Bowie/Michael Jordan draft, and the 'commenter' says "What if the Blazers were going to themselves pick Jordan?"

It’s a thought exercise, something people on message boards often do for fun. Don’t like it, no one forced you to click on the thread and reply.

Let people like things.
 

Rory Sparrow

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A pretty good comment IMO that's often overrun by typical meatball narrative...

View attachment 2490

I love the conclusion of "49ers got played...they had to use a 2nd round pick to acquire their franchise QB while the Bears franchise QB cost them the #2 overall pick, 2 3rd round picks (Alvin Kamara!) and a 4th round pick."

Groundbreaking analysis!

I don't get any of this. Lynch/Niners are inconsequential to the analysis...the only question is would some other NFL team have jumped in line in front of Pace/Bears to acquire Trubisky had the Bears stood pat. My guess is probably not, but I can't say that with certainty. I'm not sure how Lynch "lost" the trade...he only had to move down 1 spot and received a multitude of picks for doing so.
 

Rory Sparrow

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It’s a thought exercise, something people on message boards often do for fun. Don’t like it, no one forced you to click on the thread and reply.

Let people like things.

It seems like the complete lack of thought is the issue here.

If the Bears’ pick works out more than the 9ers picks, it was justified.

I don't understand the logic here. Lynch's drafts have been pretty unremarkable. How is that a point of comparison for what Pace did...trading up a boatload of picks to grab the 1st QB in the draft? The Trubisky-Mahomes comparison is more relevant than the Pace picks vs. Lynch picks analysis. Pace moved up to get the best QB, and he chose the wrong one. The fact that Lynch decided to draft Solomon Thomas doesn't make Pace's QB choice appear better by comparison.
 
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Toast88

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It seems like the complete lack of thought is the issue here.



I don't understand the logic here. Lynch's drafts have been pretty unremarkable. How is that a point of comparison for what Pace did...trading up a boatload of picks to grab the 1st QB in the draft? The Trubisky-Mahomes comparison is more relevant than the Pace picks vs. Lynch picks analysis. Pace moved up to get the best QB, and he chose the wrong one. The fact that Lynch decided to draft Solomon Thomas doesn't make Pace's QB choice appear better by comparison.

Look at my sentence immediately afterward. I basically summarize exactly what you just said:

“Ah, but it’s not so simple, is it? Not when you could’ve had the eventual MVP QB.”
 

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Funny how not 1 of us could ever be a general manager of an NFL team but we all act like we are one.
Well, It is a message board and GMs rarely do I told you so's, especially when they didn't tell you in the 1st place.
 

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I'll just put this here...


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#49ers had their last practice of training camp in Santa Clara. Jimmy Garoppolo at one point threw interceptions on five straight attempts. Five straight. In order: Jaquiski Tartt, Tavarius Moore, Richard Sherman, Ahkello Witherspoon, and Moore again.
 

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