Football topic thread

Bort

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Pagano's defenses with the Colts were terrible. Then as soon as Pagano leaves, the defense improves from 30th to 10th.

Pagano was really good as a DC with the Ravens. That 2011 Ravens defense was the best in the NFL.

Also, those Colts defenses under Pagano didn't have the talent to be very good.

As far as the improvement in 2018, the Colts added a ton of talent to that defense in 2018, most notably drafting Darius Leonard, who was a first team all-pro as a rookie, and signing Denico Autry as a free agent, who had his best season in 2018 with 9 sacks. Anthony Walker also went from being a rookie who only started 2 games in 2017 to being one of the better middle linebackers in the AFC in 2018. I also think Matt Eberflus is a better defensive coordinator than Ted Monachino, which made a difference.

There was a lot going on there with those Colts defenses that had nothing to do with Pagano's coaching.
 

Dragon Slayer

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Consider me crazy, but I think even Mel Tucker could have had decent numbers with this defense.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Pagano was really good as a DC with the Ravens. That 2011 Ravens defense was the best in the NFL.

Also, those Colts defenses under Pagano didn't have the talent to be very good.

As far as the improvement in 2018, the Colts added a ton of talent to that defense in 2018, most notably drafting Darius Leonard, who was a first team all-pro as a rookie, and signing Denico Autry as a free agent, who had his best season in 2018 with 9 sacks. Anthony Walker also went from being a rookie who only started 2 games in 2017 to being one of the better middle linebackers in the AFC in 2018. I also think Matt Eberflus is a better defensive coordinator than Ted Monachino, which made a difference.

There was a lot going on there with those Colts defenses that had nothing to do with Pagano's coaching.

Pagano only spent 1 year as DC with the Ravens. In 2010, the Ravens were 3rd in points allowed. In 2011 with Pagano as their new DC, they were 3rd in points allowed.

As for the Colts, Pagano was HC for 6 years...thats far too long a time to offer up the "didn't have the talent to be very good" excuse. The fact that Pagano couldn't construct a defense that was better than 30th in the NFL in years 5 and 6 is frightening. The fact that the Colts defense got immensely better after he left is even a bigger red flag.
 

Bort

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Pagano only spent 1 year as DC with the Ravens. In 2010, the Ravens were 3rd in points allowed. In 2011 with Pagano as their new DC, they were 3rd in points allowed.

As for the Colts, Pagano was HC for 6 years...thats far too long a time to offer up the "didn't have the talent to be very good" excuse. The fact that Pagano couldn't construct a defense that was better than 30th in the NFL in years 5 and 6 is frightening. The fact that the Colts defense got immensely better after he left is even a bigger red flag.

As for the Colts, Pagano wasn't the GM, so he's not responsible for the lack of talent on the team. Pagano had basically nothing to work with his first 3 years when he literally only had one defensive player who made a probowl on his roster. Also, the one year they actually had a pretty talented healthy defense (his fifth year in 2014, contrary to your version of events), their defensive was good.

As for the Ravens, total yards allowed and total points allowed are stats for amateurs. Advanced stats and efficiency stats give you a much better picture of how good a defense actually is, and if you look at the advanced stats, they were much better under Pagano in 2011.

My personal favorite advanced stat is PFR's Expected Points Contributed by All Defense. The difference there is glaring:

2010: 58.34 (7th in the NFL)
2011: 133.31 (1st in the NFL by a huge margin)
2012: -10.19 (12th in the NFL)

There are others, too. Yards allowed per defensive play improved under Pagano then regressed when he left.

Same with opponent QB rating:

2010: 76.4 (5th in the NFL)
2011: 68.8 (1st in the NFL)
2012: 80.6 (11th in the NFL)

Same with yards/points allowed per defensive possession:

2010: 27.2/1.46 yards/points per defensive possession
2011: 24.5/1.27 yards/points per defensive possession
2012: 29.0/1.67 yards/points per defensive possession

I could go on and on and on, but the Ravens defensive was overall much better in every defensive efficiency stat under Pagano than they were the year before him or after him.
 

Briggs is GOAT

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Trubisky - MVP
Mack - DPOY
Bears - Superbowl
@msadows - salty about the non football discussion
 

Rory Sparrow

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As for the Colts, Pagano wasn't the GM, so he's not responsible for the lack of talent on the team. Pagano had basically nothing to work with his first 3 years when he literally only had one defensive player who made a probowl on his roster. Also, the one year they actually had a pretty talented healthy defense (his fifth year in 2014, contrary to your version of events), their defensive was good.

I was responding to the comment that Pagano's "production speaks for itself". It doesn't. 1 good year in 6 doesn't "speak for itself", especially when the defense is worse at the end of Pagano's tenure than what it was when he started.

As for the Ravens, total yards allowed and total points allowed are stats for amateurs. Advanced stats and efficiency stats give you a much better picture of how good a defense actually is, and if you look at the advanced stats, they were much better under Pagano in 2011.

Cool. Still one season as a DC.

My personal favorite advanced stat is PFR's Expected Points Contributed by All Defense. The difference there is glaring:

2010: 58.34 (7th in the NFL)
2011: 133.31 (1st in the NFL by a huge margin)
2012: -10.19 (12th in the NFL)

I tend to only use stats where I know what is being calculated. Otherwise its just QBR gobblygook to me. Cool that the Ravens were 133.31 in 2011. Good to know.

There are others, too. Yards allowed per defensive play improved under Pagano then regressed when he left.

Same with opponent QB rating:

2010: 76.4 (5th in the NFL)
2011: 68.8 (1st in the NFL)
2012: 80.6 (11th in the NFL)

Same with yards/points allowed per defensive possession:

2010: 27.2/1.46 yards/points per defensive possession
2011: 24.5/1.27 yards/points per defensive possession
2012: 29.0/1.67 yards/points per defensive possession

I could go on and on and on, but the Ravens defensive was overall much better in every defensive efficiency stat under Pagano than they were the year before him or after him.

Cool. Ravens improved with new players at 3 of the 4 DB positions in 2011. Ed Reed was the lone holdover.

So, you've done a fine job of covering that one season Pagano was DC for the Ravens when he inherited the #3 defense. What about those 6 more recent years with the Colts?
 

BaBaBlacksheep

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It is almost the start of football season and instead of feeding the trolls I thought we should have a nice football topic thread for stuff people want to say about the bears, so here ya go.

Topic of this post is about the fact the bears dont have a plan at kicker yet and it's almost that time of year where u really want one of those.

Some ppl thought that Robbie Gould would be signed by now but that hasnt happened

Some people dont care because they think trubs will make the kicker position moot

I think Pace needs to get his chit 2gether

Go get a kicker PACE!

Bears clearly DO have a plan at kicker. It may not work out.... but it's a plan.
 

Bort

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I was responding to the comment that Pagano's "production speaks for itself". It doesn't. 1 good year in 6 doesn't "speak for itself", especially when the defense is worse at the end of Pagano's tenure than what it was when he started.



Cool. Still one season as a DC.



I tend to only use stats where I know what is being calculated. Otherwise its just QBR gobblygook to me. Cool that the Ravens were 133.31 in 2011. Good to know.



Cool. Ravens improved with new players at 3 of the 4 DB positions in 2011. Ed Reed was the lone holdover.

So, you've done a fine job of covering that one season Pagano was DC for the Ravens when he inherited the #3 defense. What about those 6 more recent years with the Colts?

What's the point of bothering to substantively respond to you if you're just going to hand-wave away all of the statistical evidence that the Ravens defense was much better with Pagano as DC?

And as far as the Colts, I was responding to your comments about Pagano's defenses with the Colts being 30th in the NFL in his fifth and sixth seasons as coach. By what statistical measure was the Colts defense 30th in the NFL in 2015?
 

BaBaBlacksheep

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I think there's enough with Pagano that the people who default negative can find plenty to be concerned about, and the people that default positive can be positive. I'll just wait and see.
 

BearFanJohn

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Bears have a great roster that will once again be undone by a mediocre/bad QB. Even more, they could have had a future HOFer in Watson or Mahomes. Oh well. Same CHIT different year.

You could be right, I guess, but suspect you are being negative to either troll or you are just “that fan”. I will be the first to say if Mitch isn’t in the top 10 he was a wasted pick. On the other hand, at this point in the year I sense a much more positive outlook among most fans. That said, you Mahomes - Watson schtick sort of gives your trolling away.
 

CRM 114

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You could be right, I guess, but suspect you are being negative to either troll or you are just “that fan”. I will be the first to say if Mitch isn’t in the top 10 he was a wasted pick. On the other hand, at this point in the year I sense a much more positive outlook among most fans. That said, you Mahomes - Watson schtick sort of gives your trolling away.

How is saying that a mediocre QB will hold back a great roster trolling?
 

BearFanJohn

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I dont know if it is trolling but going out of your way to mention it in damn near every post is at worst annoying...Hey, guess what. We all know how you feel. Thanks for the input again and again and again and again and again.

The HoF Mahomes & Watson is a give away. Such early proclamations, especially Watson with bad knees, is telling. Just another way to dig at MT, who does not deserve it-yet. Or dig at Pace. Or just the Bears in general. Lacks perspective and likely understanding. But that is o.k., too.
 

CRM 114

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I dont know if it is trolling but going out of your way to mention it in damn near every post is at worst annoying...Hey, guess what. We all know how you feel. Thanks for the input again and again and again and again and again.
The HoF Mahomes & Watson is a give away. Such early proclamations, especially Watson with bad knees, is telling. Just another way to dig at MT, who does not deserve it-yet. Or dig at Pace. Or just the Bears in general. Lacks perspective and likely understanding. But that is o.k., too.

Sorry you two find the truth so annoying. I’ll let you two live in a fantasy world while I live in reality.

Thanks
 

Leon Sandcastle

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Sorry you two find the truth so annoying. I’ll let you two live in a fantasy world while I live in reality.

Thanks
giphy.gif
 

baredown

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Topic of the post is the Bears 2019 health.

Being far and away the healthiest team in the NFL last year was certainly quite the boon for the Bears. You hear quite often that "availability is a major factor of success in the NFL" - and for good reason, it's true. You can't be a superstar from the sideline, that's obvious. It will be interesting to see how the bears fare in the health department this season. I think it's safe to assume they won't be the healthiest team 2 years in a row.. so much of that comes down to luck and happenstance, chances are we sustain injuries to key players this season, which is an issue the 2018 bears didn't have to deal with.

Does anyone have any idea what this team looks like without, say, Mack?
Slightly amended topic for this post: Who can the Bears absolutely not lose due to injury or whatever, and still make a serious run at SB54? There'd be a fairly long list of players that would be painful to lose, but I think the list of players essential to a Bears SuperBowl run turns out to be pretty short. My list is three:

1] Trubisky - 2 words: Chase Daniel
2] Mack - 3 words: Khalil <bleeping> Mack
3] Fuller - the only shutdown corner at a position that's not deep, and with a new DC that's likely to blitz more

That's it. Thought about Jackson, Hicks, and Roquan, but decided the Bears could still contend for the SB if they lost any one of them for the year. Note the object here isn't to make a list of players you'd hate to lose, but rather the shortest list possible that the Bears simply can not afford to lose...
 

TheWinman

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It is almost the start of football season and instead of feeding the trolls I thought we should have a nice football topic thread for stuff people want to say about the bears, so here ya go.

Topic of this post is about the fact the bears dont have a plan at kicker yet and it's almost that time of year where u really want one of those.

Some ppl thought that Robbie Gould would be signed by now but that hasnt happened

Some people dont care because they think trubs will make the kicker position moot

I think Pace needs to get his chit 2gether

Go get a kicker PACE!
yes, kicker is the biggest worry by far for this team. I don't see a solution either. We will pick someone off the scrap heap and unless we get lucky, we will lose a game or two because of the kicker .
 

TheWinman

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  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
Bears have a great roster that will once again be undone by a mediocre/bad QB. Even more, they could have had a future HOFer in Watson or Mahomes. Oh well. Same CHIT different year.
I read the post first before seeing the author. It was not hard to predict it was you. lol You will be eating your words
 

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