Fox wanted Watson. Mahomes was Pace's No 2 QB.

WestCoastBearsFan

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If roquan continues to play like trash, he absolutely will not be on the roster. Fuller and whitehair will also be 30. Leno could be gone if his descent continues. And in not sure he's good enough to be considered the core anyway. Plus, like I've said, there will end up being major roster turnover in that many years, and your core isn't much to build around because the bears fucked up that draft so bad.

And no, 7 to 4 isn't a major jump. It's not subjective in the slightest. Like I've said, Marino has been given his due. He hasn't been slighted all that much.
So you named 4 of them and none of them are “30+” in 3 years, and only 2 of them “could be gone” according to you. Never mind the fact that Roquan will not be gone in 3 years because it makes no sense to cut somebody on a rookie deal, especially a first round pick. You also keep saying there will be roster turnover but don’t provide specifics.
 

playthrough2001

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K.....

I'm just saying some of you need to get off the ledge.
Yep, the histrionics around here are a little much. If Eddy makes that kick and they don’t rough the punter in London, the team really wouldn’t be any better but the emotional state of some posters would be completely different.

Last year everyone was awesome but the kicker. This year everyone and everything sucks and needs to be burned to the ground. I hope none of these guys are actual decision makers where they work or have anything to do with managing people.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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Yep, the histrionics around here are a little much. If Eddy makes that kick and they don’t rough the punter in London, the team really wouldn’t be any better but the emotional state of some posters would be completely different.

Last year everyone was awesome but the kicker. This year everyone and everything sucks and needs to be burned to the ground. I hope none of these guys are actual decision makers where they work or have anything to do with managing people.
Meh, maybe I'm doing the thing I'm railing against, but I think Parkey's miss gave a lot of cover for Nagy and Fangio in that playoff game. Don't get me wrong: Fuck Cody Parkey. I just think he provided a nice distraction for an awful game plan on offense, and two second half TDs the defense gave up.
 

WindyCity

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Yep, the histrionics around here are a little much. If Eddy makes that kick and they don’t rough the punter in London, the team really wouldn’t be any better but the emotional state of some posters would be completely different.

Last year everyone was awesome but the kicker. This year everyone and everything sucks and needs to be burned to the ground. I hope none of these guys are actual decision makers where they work or have anything to do with managing people.
I think there is a differences between guys who are playing bad and guys who are bad.

Playing Bad

Leno, Daniels, Massie, Floyd

Bad

Mitch, Shaheen
 

WindyCity

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Yep, the histrionics around here are a little much. If Eddy makes that kick and they don’t rough the punter in London, the team really wouldn’t be any better but the emotional state of some posters would be completely different.

Last year everyone was awesome but the kicker. This year everyone and everything sucks and needs to be burned to the ground. I hope none of these guys are actual decision makers where they work or have anything to do with managing people.
I disagree to a point. The flaws and limitations of this team are pretty apparent.

Even if the Bears were 5-4 or even 6-3, you aren’t going anywhere with an offense this bad and a QB having a historic bad season.
 

WindyCity

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How awesome would it be if Pace got reverse Foxed?

Nagy completely shuts him out of the QB evaluation process and then surprises him with who he wants on draft day.
 

playthrough2001

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I think there is a differences between guys who are playing bad and guys who are bad.

Playing Bad

Leno, Daniels, Massie, Floyd

Bad

Mitch, Shaheen
This isn’t verbatim but wasn’t it just yesterday or the day before that you said Mitch played better and even though you were doubtful you would give his play further consideration?

Maybe he does suck but burying this guy at this point of his career is just foolish. I guess I’ve learned from things I’ve witnessed in past.

He needs to develop a consistent level of play with a much higher floor but anyone that suggests he hasn’t at times flashed top tier skills is just being disingenuous.

He’s never been my guy but I’ll certainly defend him because the groupthink and hate for him is off the charts.
 

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ijustposthere

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So you named 4 of them and none of them are “30+” in 3 years, and only 2 of them “could be gone” according to you. Never mind the fact that Roquan will not be gone in 3 years because it makes no sense to cut somebody on a rookie deal, especially a first round pick. You also keep saying there will be roster turnover but don’t provide specifics.
LOL, your core was completely grasping at straws. Robinson, yeah, hopefully he doesn't bolt after his contract is up next year. Montgomery, definitely. Goldman, probably. Leno, Jackson, Fuller, Mack, Whitehair, all at least 30 by that time (30 is included in 30+ in case you were struggling with that). Who knows if they'll still be playing at a high level, especially Fuller & Jackson. You can already see the age in Amukamara, and he's only 30. Smith, maybe. Isn't Kwiatkowski already taking snaps from him? The rest you included haven't proven to be core players, which makes it laughable. And I see there's no QB on your list. Your grasping at OLman and WRs that have proven nothing to bolster to the offensive list.

And we're talking a MINIMUM of three years, which is a long time in football. Most likely, since the Bears whiffed so bad in that 2017 draft, it would take longer. Unless they somehow find a QB in that time. People aren't going to forget that. The Cubs won the WS in 2016, but people didn't forget the failures prior just because of the one win. I really don't know how to explain it to you any simpler. The only way that draft will be forgiven is if Trubisky flips the switch, Mahomes/Watson completely flop as well, or the Bears become a dynasty almost immediately after Mitch is gone. That's it. Other than that, it's a draft that, even with your 3 year time frame (which remember is a MINIMUM), set the franchise back at least 5-6 years.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

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LOL, your core was completely grasping at straws. Robinson, yeah, hopefully he doesn't bolt after his contract is up next year. Montgomery, definitely. Goldman, probably. Leno, Jackson, Fuller, Mack, Whitehair, all at least 30 by that time (30 is included in 30+ in case you were struggling with that). Who knows if they'll still be playing at a high level, especially Fuller & Jackson. You can already see the age in Amukamara, and he's only 30. Smith, maybe. Isn't Kwiatkowski already taking snaps from him? The rest you included haven't proven to be core players, which makes it laughable. And I see there's no QB on your list. Your grasping at OLman and WRs that have proven nothing to bolster to the offensive list.

And we're talking a MINIMUM of three years, which is a long time in football. Most likely, since the Bears whiffed so bad in that 2017 draft, it would take longer. Unless they somehow find a QB in that time. People aren't going to forget that. The Cubs won the WS in 2016, but people didn't forget the failures prior just because of the one win. I really don't know how to explain it to you any simpler. The only way that draft will be forgiven is if Trubisky flips the switch, Mahomes/Watson completely flop as well, or the Bears become a dynasty almost immediately after Mitch is gone. That's it. Other than that, it's a draft that, even with your 3 year time frame (which remember is a MINIMUM), set the franchise back at least 5-6 years.
First of all, 30+ does not include 30, but whatever floats your boat I guess. Where the fuck have you seen Kwit taking snaps from Roquan? You gonna back that up with facts or anything? And who specifically haven't proven to be core players? Daniels is also 22, and will more than likely be around for 3 years just like Roquan. RRH and Nichols are both starters and have been talked about as guys who could be getting an extension. And no shit there is no QB on this list, the premise of this discussion was young players that are part of the core under contract and to show that "everything else [other than QB, OL, TE] is solid... or solid enough that a decent QB could win with". Prince has also been solid for us so I do not see why you bring him up in a negative light. Also I said, "potentially" in regards to Bars, and even acknowledged that Ridley and Wimms have not proven enough to be considered core players but please continue to show me the straws I am grasping at.
 

ijustposthere

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First of all, 30+ does not include 30, but whatever floats your boat I guess. Where the fuck have you seen Kwit taking snaps from Roquan? You gonna back that up with facts or anything? And who specifically haven't proven to be core players? Daniels is also 22, and will more than likely be around for 3 years just like Roquan. RRH and Nichols are both starters and have been talked about as guys who could be getting an extension. And no shit there is no QB on this list, the premise of this discussion was young players that are part of the core under contract and to show that "everything else [other than QB, OL, TE] is solid... or solid enough that a decent QB could win with". Prince has also been solid for us so I do not see why you bring him up in a negative light. Also I said, "potentially" in regards to Bars, and even acknowledged that Ridley and Wimms have not proven enough to be considered core players but please continue to show me the straws I am grasping at.
Lol @ 30+ not including 30. It's literally the first number in the sequence. Do you think Disney+ doesn't include Disney? RRH and Nichols haven't proven to be anything worth building around yet. They're complimentary, not the core. Daniels has proven nothing, another reach by you. Roquan has been non-existent since missing the Vikings game. Plus I was asking about kwiatkoski taking some of his snaps, if I knew for sure it wouldn't have been in the form of a question. Perhaps it was to give Smith a breather and I just happened to notice it.

Adding potentially core players was you trying your best to add guys into your argument. That's literally grasping at straws. Those guys have gotten no playing time to even be considered.

You keep thinking minor upgrades at a couple positions from this current team will have the bears competing three years from now, and I keep explaining to you that it doesn't work like that. And yeah, prince has been decent, but he's showing his age. My point is he's only 30, and a few of those guys on your list aren't guaranteed to be playing at the same high level in three years when they hit that age, especially the dbs.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

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Lol @ 30+ not including 30. It's literally the first number in the sequence. Do you think Disney+ doesn't include Disney? RRH and Nichols haven't proven to be anything worth building around yet. They're complimentary, not the core. Daniels has proven nothing, another reach by you. Roquan has been non-existent since missing the Vikings game. Plus I was asking about kwiatkoski taking some of his snaps, if I knew for sure it wouldn't have been in the form of a question. Perhaps it was to give Smith a breather and I just happened to notice it.

Adding potentially core players was you trying your best to add guys into your argument. That's literally grasping at straws. Those guys have gotten no playing time to even be considered.

You keep thinking minor upgrades at a couple positions from this current team will have the bears competing three years from now, and I keep explaining to you that it doesn't work like that. And yeah, prince has been decent, but he's showing his age. My point is he's only 30, and a few of those guys on your list aren't guaranteed to be playing at the same high level in three years when they hit that age, especially the dbs.
Well if you want to get technical about it there are other forms of Disney other than Disney+. For example the Disney channel. If Disney+ does not include everything Disney channel has produced than it does not necessarily include “Disney”.

Maybe you should check the stats but Roquan lead the team with 11 tackles against Detroit. Hardly “invisible” IMHO. And no, it’s not grasping at straws I included them there to show that they *potentially* have more core pieces waiting in the wings. If you think I put them there to “add guys into my argument” well I can’t really do anything else to convince you other wise so that’s a lost cause.

James Daniels is again 22 years old. I don’t know what else to tell you dude. You don’t draft a guy at 21 years old to not have him part of the core. Now he may not develop and take himself out of the core but right now, moving forward, James Daniels is a building block for the offensive line. That’s a core piece.
 

ijustposthere

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Well if you want to get technical about it there are other forms of Disney other than Disney+. For example the Disney channel. If Disney+ does not include everything Disney channel has produced than it does not necessarily include “Disney”.

Maybe you should check the stats but Roquan lead the team with 11 tackles against Detroit. Hardly “invisible” IMHO. And no, it’s not grasping at straws I included them there to show that they *potentially* have more core pieces waiting in the wings. If you think I put them there to “add guys into my argument” well I can’t really do anything else to convince you other wise so that’s a lost cause.

James Daniels is again 22 years old. I don’t know what else to tell you dude. You don’t draft a guy at 21 years old to not have him part of the core. Now he may not develop and take himself out of the core but right now, moving forward, James Daniels is a building block for the offensive line. That’s a core piece.
LMAO, just stop already. The only one that has the power to make anyone forget about the horrendous 2017 draft is trubisky. The bears winning a hypothetical super bowl with your hypothetical core that only needs a qb/te/ol isn't changing that narrative as long as Watson and Mahomes are terrorizing the league.
 

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This isn’t verbatim but wasn’t it just yesterday or the day before that you said Mitch played better and even though you were doubtful you would give his play further consideration?

Maybe he does suck but burying this guy at this point of his career is just foolish. I guess I’ve learned from things I’ve witnessed in past.

He needs to develop a consistent level of play with a much higher floor but anyone that suggests he hasn’t at times flashed top tier skills is just being disingenuous.

He’s never been my guy but I’ll certainly defend him because the groupthink and hate for him is off the charts.
He was better. But I doubt it lasts. But keep in mind his better was to play at what I would consider to be league averageish. I am willing to give him 7 more games, but unless he goes crazy that won't really change my opinion of the pick and Pace.

Have you learned from the past?

My experiences in the past is that bad QBs very rarely, if ever, magically become better or more consistent. They stay bad with the odd flash of something more. Rex never really improved, Orton stayed the same, Jay never got more consistent or disciplined.

The evidence points us towards bust, so that is how we operate until he is replaced or magically is touched by the hand of QB Jesus and improves.
 

WindyCity

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I am convinced that WindyCity is a psychopath, or a bot, or a Canadian sleeper cell. When pressed, he will say whatever the Canadian Football League tells him to say, and like it. That's how we ended up with Trestman. He loooved Trestman.
Marc Trestman was a really nice guy. Of all the CFL coaches who cut me he was the best.

The difference is in the CFL everyone is so replaceable and makes so little money that the locker room is easy to control.
 
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