Gleyber Torres

anotheridiot

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For this trade, it absolutely is. The Cubs went out and got a really good closer that was a reason why they won the World Series. Torres doesn't help them win it in 2016..
Absolutely not, but would he have helped over the past two years is the whole question, well over the past two years and next 4 or however much more control he had.
Theo had a great one and let him slip away.
This is really no different than the Soler deal, other than Soler is a DH, it is different if the guy he got dealt for is still here helping.
 

CSF77

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Absolutely not, but would he have helped over the past two years is the whole question, well over the past two years and next 4 or however much more control he had.
Theo had a great one and let him slip away.
This is really no different than the Soler deal, other than Soler is a DH, it is different if the guy he got dealt for is still here helping.
If it was a different situation I doubt that Theo trades away Gleybar. But at the time he had Russell at SS playing at a top level and Baez doing everything.

You really can't go into this 20/20. At the time yes. They needed the monkey off their back and that is what it cost.

I doubt they will do that again after off loading their farm. They fell in love with their guys and cast off a bunch of players. Not they have to rebuild a depleted system.
 

CSF77

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Absolutely not, but would he have helped over the past two years is the whole question, well over the past two years and next 4 or however much more control he had.
Theo had a great one and let him slip away.
This is really no different than the Soler deal, other than Soler is a DH, it is different if the guy he got dealt for is still here helping.
If it was a different situation I doubt that Theo trades away Gleybar. But at the time he had Russell at SS playing at a top level and Baez doing everything.

You really can't go into this 20/20. At the time yes. They needed the monkey off their back and that is what it cost.

I doubt they will do that again after off loading their farm. They fell in love with their guys and cast off a bunch of players. Now they have to rebuild a depleted syste
 

anotheridiot

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If it was a different situation I doubt that Theo trades away Gleybar. But at the time he had Russell at SS playing at a top level and Baez doing everything.

You really can't go into this 20/20. At the time yes. They needed the monkey off their back and that is what it cost.

I doubt they will do that again after off loading their farm. They fell in love with their guys and cast off a bunch of players. Now they have to rebuild a depleted syste
It is the off season of a dissapointing year, all we have left is hindsight
 

zack54attack

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2016 was 3 years ago. Nobody cares anymore.

The last 2 years sucked and we are probably not going to win anytime soon. So I guess make sure to enjoy that too.
Lmao. Flags fly forever, my friend. If the past 2 years sucked, that still doesn't make the WS not count. Keep Trollin'
 

zack54attack

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The Cubs weren't going into that second half and postseason with Hector Rondon as their closer. Absolutely not.
 

fatbeard

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If it was a different situation I doubt that Theo trades away Gleybar. But at the time he had Russell at SS playing at a top level and Baez doing everything.
Well, yeah. Doesn't it go without saying that if Epstein knew Russell would turn into a wife-beating shitbird with a bat that never develops he would've done things a bit differently?
 

JP Hochbaum

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The issue isn't the trade, at the time we had redundancies in our system and he was blocked by Russell and Baez.

The issue is that Russell turned into a psychopath. Had Russell just been a .280 hitter with 20 homers and 90 rbis every year, no one would give a damn about Torres.
 

zack54attack

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The issue isn't the trade, at the time we had redundancies in our system and he was blocked by Russell and Baez.

The issue is that Russell turned into a psychopath. Had Russell just been a .280 hitter with 20 homers and 90 rbis every year, no one would give a damn about Torres.
Good point. But that's "FUTURE MVP!" Addison Russell to you!
 

JP Hochbaum

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There is also no way of telling what would have happened had we kept Torres. There is a chance Theo could have seen Russel as better than Baez and decided Baez was the guy to trade and off load him in 2017 to get Quintana. OR that we wouldn't have traded Torres for another arm.

IT is incredibly stupid to play the what if game.
 

anotheridiot

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The Cubs weren't going into that second half and postseason with Hector Rondon as their closer. Absolutely not.
18 saves first half.

47K;s, 5BB, 8 earned runs, 18 saves, 4 blown saves in 38 appearances before Champan got here.

Extrapolate that to a pretty decent year.
 

zack54attack

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18 saves first half.

47K;s, 5BB, 8 earned runs, 18 saves, 4 blown saves in 38 appearances before Champan got here.

Extrapolate that to a pretty decent year.
And was bad in the final two months.

August/Sept — 9 2/3 innings.

August - 15.43 ERA (four earned runs in 2 1/3 innings)

Then had the triceps injury.
 

fatbeard

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18 saves first half.

47K;s, 5BB, 8 earned runs, 18 saves, 4 blown saves in 38 appearances before Champan got here.

Extrapolate that to a pretty decent year.
This revisionist history is not going to convince anyone.

You're just flat wrong.
 

Castor76

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Dodgers are going to dominate the NL for the next 5 years. And they will almost certainly win one or more in that window. As I said, the playoffs are basically a coin flip. The goal is to get into the playoffs as often as possible and hope the stars align during one or more of those years. Look at the Nats this season. They certainly didn't go all-in for this run. Pitching and hitting just came together at the right time. They've had a lot of playoff appearances and it's finally hitting for them.

It's a lot of fun to have October baseball to look forward nearly every year. Cubs fans missed out this year and the future looks bleak.
It's done them wonders the previous 5. And there's no such thing as set up for the next 5 years now in baseball. The Cubs are not losing any significant players to FA. Maybe the Cubs go back to drawing board. Maybe they re-load.
 

anotheridiot

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And was bad in the final two months.

August/Sept — 9 2/3 innings.

August - 15.43 ERA (four earned runs in 2 1/3 innings)

Then had the triceps injury.
Right, he put up decent numbers, got told fuck you, you are not good enough anymore, what exactly do you expect players to do? What is the difference that replacing a decent pitcher with sitting Almora or Bote after a walk off hit?

Most of you fail to realize, these guys are still people with real people feelings. You get told you are not good enough, it ends up changing the approach.
 

fatbeard

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It's done them wonders the previous 5. And there's no such thing as set up for the next 5 years now in baseball. The Cubs are not losing any significant players to FA. Maybe the Cubs go back to drawing board. Maybe they re-load.
Epstein was pretty clear in his press conference that they aren't going to blow everything up and start over, but that this offseason is definitely a transition point and there will be real change across the organization. I think we'll see efforts to extend Baez and Bryant, and they'll trade whoever they can't make a deal with (probably Bryant), most likely in return for an infusion of young talent in the rotation. Quintana also makes a lot of sense as a potential trade since he's cheap and in his final year.
 

Steve_A

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Well, yeah. Doesn't it go without saying that if Epstein knew Russell would turn into a wife-beating shitbird with a bat that never develops he would've done things a bit differently?
The issue isn't the trade, at the time we had redundancies in our system and he was blocked by Russell and Baez.

The issue is that Russell turned into a psychopath. Had Russell just been a .280 hitter with 20 homers and 90 rbis every year, no one would give a damn about Torres.
Good point. But that's "FUTURE MVP!" Addison Russell to you!
Russell was a great example of not always does top prospects pan out.

One other trade I really feel stunk bad was the Yelich for Brinston and a few others btw.
 

CSF77

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Russell was a great example of not always does top prospects pan out.

One other trade I really feel stunk bad was the Yelich for Brinston and a few others btw.
Russell is only 25 YO. Book is not done with him.

There is a need for a UI even if Nico is the starting 2B. Russell is removed from the douchery a bit now so teams are going to be looking at his on the field value vs his off the field drama.

But right now Theo should hold on to him and use him for bait. Ademan should be in AA-AAA Short AAA ready to take over as main UI. Then it makes sense to use him for a trade chip.

Cutting him is just a payroll savings and they will end up using that freed up resource for garbage anyways. They always do this and nothing ever changes.
 

SilenceS

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Russell is only 25 YO. Book is not done with him.

There is a need for a UI even if Nico is the starting 2B. Russell is removed from the douchery a bit now so teams are going to be looking at his on the field value vs his off the field drama.

But right now Theo should hold on to him and use him for bait. Ademan should be in AA-AAA Short AAA ready to take over as main UI. Then it makes sense to use him for a trade chip.

Cutting him is just a payroll savings and they will end up using that freed up resource for garbage anyways. They always do this and nothing ever changes.
Russell was worse defensively at SS and 2nd base then any time of his career. His bat was terrible and he is looking at over 4.5 million dollars in arbitration. The Cubs need to cut ties and move on.

No one is trading for him.
 

CSF77

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Russell was worse defensively at SS and 2nd base then any time of his career. His bat was terrible and he is looking at over 4.5 million dollars in arbitration. The Cubs need to cut ties and move on.

No one is trading for him.

And what will they do with that savings?

2/1/19Chicago Cubs signed free agent RHP Tony Barnette.


12/23/18Chicago Cubs signed free agent RHP Kendall Graveman.
12/18/18Chicago Cubs signed free agent 2B Daniel Descalso.


 
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