Is the Andy Reid offensive system extremely overrated?

Klotty23

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Isn’t this thread about Andy Reid’s offenses being overrated or not?

Wins and losses are irrelevant to the question posed.

he’s produced a ton of really good offenses so I would have to declare his offensive prowess as legit.

The stats say that he is but is it all him, no but a huge part of it and everyone on this board would take him as an offensive coordinator over what we have or have had in a second!
 

ijustposthere

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this

Reid puts together great teams, gets good production from the offense, can't run a D for shit nor find someone who can. Inverse Lovie.
Um, Jim Johnson? Sean McDermott? Todd Bowles? His Philly D's were pretty good, and he's had a top 12 defense eleven times. Top 10 nine times. Lovie Smith had an offense ranked in the top 22 TWICE. Andy Reid's problem is in-game management, and that's why his teams always fuck up at some point in the playoffs. And no, his offenses aren't overrated.
 
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Pegger

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To seriously answer the question, here's what the tree looks like:



That's not too bad. Obviously some failures, but as head coaches both Harbaugh and Pederson have won a SB. Add in that Rivera has done a lot, McDermott has been extremely solid for a complete rebuild and Nagy has some early success and that onto itself would put his coaching tree above a more accomplished coach like Bill Belichick.

To focus on his offense for a bit I think he really understands the QB position well and does all he can to help them succeed. I'm an Eagles fan and I can say with a certain level of confidence that without Andy Reid McNabb would have ended up like the two picks that were around him in Tim Couch and Akili Smith. We have to remember, McNabb was not an accurate QB. For him to have a 2:1 TD to Interception ratio and a 59% completion there was a lot of QB friendly game planning. I'd add in that McNabb was hurt a lot. Weather it was Jeff Garcia, AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb or Mike Vick, they all performed their career best while Andy was calling the plays.

Let's map that over to KC. Alex Smith was his best version of NFL QB while Andy was calling plays. We don't know what Mahomes is without him, but we know he's one of the NFL's best QBs.

Finally, I'd add that Reid has changed a lot throughout the years. When he started with the Eagles he was a strict Walsh/Holmgren West Coast offense. I shit you not, they didn't run anything out of shotgun at the beginning. Towards the end it was our base formation. When looking at the X's and O's side and looking to create mismatches that is an area he's continued to learn, adjust and ultimately evolve. Andy will never try to take the spotlight away from a player, but a good chunk of the Mahomes love should be allocated to play design.

With that being said Andy Reid has some massive flaws:

- Outsources the defense all together - I remember when the late/great Jim Johnson died he ended up promoting Sean McDermott, who was not ready yet and then ultimately promoted his OL coach, Juan Castillo, to become the DC (fun fact: the DL coach, Jim Washburn, would call Juan 'Juanita' to the DL group).
- Clock Management - He just sucks late in the half/game. Always been terrible.
- Passes too much - I actually think he sacrifices some of the gameday balance to make sure his QB is in rhythm.
- Loyal to a fault - He's one of the ultimate players' coaches and gets a lot out of his guys, but he'll also stick with someone way past their expiry date. I'd actually classify his son's overdose death at the team facility in this as well. He wants someone to succeed so bad that he often overlooks their own personal limitations/demons.
 
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discplayer

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Um, Jim Johnson? Sean McDermott? Todd Bowles? His Philly D's were pretty good, and he's had a top 12 defense eleven times. Top 10 nine times. Lovie Smith had an offense ranked in the top 22 TWICE. Andy Reid's problem is in-game management, and that's why his teams always fuck up at some point in the playoffs. And no, his offenses aren't overrated.
Amen, ijust. Reid is tremendous in every facet as an HC (coaching, mentoring, player development, scheming and coordinating...). He just tends to struggle w/in-game decisions/mgt in big/playoff games.
 

discplayer

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Amen, ijust. Reid is tremendous in every facet as an HC (coaching, mentoring, player development, scheming and coordinating...). He just tends to struggle w/in-game decisions/mgt in big/playoff games.
And gets out coached, often allowing leads to melt away at critical (usually playoff) moments.
 

Pegger

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And gets out coached, often allowing leads to melt away at critical (usually playoff) moments.
I actually think this ties back to his loyalty getting the better of him. When he gets a gameplan going and he sees that players are engaged when things don't go the way it's planned he sticks with things because he believes his players will come through.

I think he'd rather win from his players making plays as opposed to him making adjustments. I do agree it's his downfall, but I also think he gets more out of a lot of players than another coach would.

Definitely a two sided sword, but he's got a track record that backs it up.
 

ijustposthere

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I actually think this ties back to his loyalty getting the better of him. When he gets a gameplan going and he sees that players are engaged when things don't go the way it's planned he sticks with things because he believes his players will come through.

I think he'd rather win from his players making plays as opposed to him making adjustments. I do agree it's his downfall, but I also think he gets more out of a lot of players than another coach would.

Definitely a two sided sword, but he's got a track record that backs it up.
I'd say he gets more than a lot of coaches, but there are quite a few that are able to do the same. Belichick, Carroll, Payton, Tomlin, & Harbaugh immediately come to mind.
 

run and shoot

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Some have brought Smith into the discussion, i.e. "bad "O". However there is a key element any "O" needs to be successful.

Even though Smith was great enuff to coach us to a SB.....he was still missing that one key element on "O" that Reid always seems to have.......
 
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Pegger

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I'd say he gets more than a lot of coaches, but there are quite a few that are able to do the same. Belichick, Carroll, Payton, Tomlin, & Harbaugh immediately come to mind.
Agreed, or maybe just to add, certain players respond equally well to coaches who don't have to sacrifice scheme to appease the player.

This also reminded me of something. Andy is also a bit of a control freak. He keeps doing well as a coach, but also keeps asking for more player/coach authority. What ends up happening is that he spreads himself so thin (only time he'll ever be regarded as 'thin') that it starts to take away form the areas he's good at.

I still think back to those days were he was a part of contract negotiations, draft strategy, coaching hires and his bread and butter, being play design and calling, all suffered because of it.

Bill Parcells said if you are asking me to make dinner let me pick the ingredients. Where that saying doesn't correctly map over to the NFL is that making the dinner (coaching) is a 80+ hour a week job. Picking the ingredients (GM) is also a 80+ hour a week job. If you have one person trying to work 160+ hours a week, knowing fully well that there are only 168 hours in a week something has to give. Some coaches like Bill Parcells seems to be able to have his hands in everything, but then again I think one of his underappreciated strengths is his ability communicate clearly and delegate authority.
 
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