Nagy is a bigger disappointment than Mitch... change my mind

[pablovi]

2nd half... (found a free screen recorder to use )

Drive 7:
Literally the best drive of the game. Why? Because Nagy finally pulled his head out of his ass for 1 fucking series, put Holtz in the backfield as a FB, and used the run to open up the pass. Let's pick it up after the 4th down conversion.

• 1st and 10 from LAC 35 - 6 OL (Lucas) I-formation with Holtz at FB. Chargers drop into zone and LB is forced to cover ARob down across the field for an easy 31 yard completion. Amazing how that works.
• 1st and goal from LAC 4 - Jumbo formation with Holtz again at FB. Amazing how easy it is to get into the endzone when you stop trying to outsmart everyone and just keep it simple and fucking pound the ball.

Hope everyone enjoyed that drive because that's the last time Nagy went to the power game..
Right back to the Shotgun RPO next drive. ?

Drive 8:
The interception drive.

• 1st and 10 - Shotgun RPO run for 3.
• 2nd and 7 - Shotgun quick pass for no gain.
• 3rd and 7 - Shotgun 3 step drop to Gabriel for 1st down, penalty declined.
• 1st and 10 - Extra OL, single back inside run for 3.
• 2nd and 7 - Shotgun deep pass INT. Let's take a closer look. Simply a great play by the CB.

This is the last frame as Trubisky starts to throw. Can't blame him too much for being baited. The CB is still stride for stride with Miller following him deep. He thinks he's going to have Burton open underneath the coverage.
View attachment 3581

Unfortunately the moment the ball leaves his hand is the exact moment the CB, stops, passes off Miller, and jumps Burton's route. Had the CB kept going with Miller that's a huge play. Just a hell of a play by the CB to bait Mitch.

Drive 9:
The fumble drive. You'd think after your QB just threw an INT and you're clinging to a 6 point lead with 10 minutes left in the game your HC would go back to the I formation power run game that worked so well before and try to sustain a nice long time consuming drive... but no.

• 1st and 10 - Shotgun (again) pass to ARob for 6.
• 2nd and 4 - Shotgun RPO inside zone to Monty picks up 4 by some miracle.
• 1st and 10 - The awful overthrow to (legitimately) wide open Gabriel. Nobody but Mitch to blame for that.
• 2nd and 10 - Both OT's left 1 on 1 with Bosa and Ingram. Bosa walks Leno back into Mitch like he's a tackling dummy, while Massie gets beat around the edge by Ingram and runs and knocks the ball out of Mitch's hands.

Drive 10:
Ugly drive but thanks to LAC trying to give the game away the Bears are gifted a 3rd down conversion and setup on the LAC 40. Let's pick it up there.

• 1st and 10 - Yet another shotgun RPO run inside right for 3.
• 2nd and 7 - Yet another shotgun RPO run inside left for -3.
• 3rd and 10 - Shotgun TRIPLE hooks. LAC drops into soft zone coverage.

Here's a screenshot as Trubisky's completes his drop. Weird, where are all the wide open receivers??
View attachment 3582

Let's look at the pocket angle. Bosa again left 1 on 1 who easily beats Massie around the edge to blow the play up while on the other side Davis and Whitehair fail to pick up the stunting LB who also blows up the play. Someone explain why Davis is going across the formation to block a guy already being blocked instead of helping Massie with Bosa.

Funny how the teams we play consistently double and triple team Mack to keep him from disrupting games but we just say fuck it and leave opponents best players 1 on 1 with our least talented players. I'm not sure how but clearly Mitch is to blame for the Special person blocking assignments.

Drive 10:
Last drive of game, not much to go over here but it was nice to see Trubisky redeem himself by completing the same throw he missed to Gabriel last week.

Thanks for the breakdowns!

An that’s exactly why Nagy sucks as playcaller, the one and only drive that worked was the first drive of the second half. Like you said, were Nagy wasn’t Nagy! He ran the ball from running formations, with an actual RB! which opened up the pass and the playaction, it was a perfect drive, and that’s what you need to do with a shitty QB! And not a very good Oline! And tried it, against his will, and it worked! But he didn’t continue with it!
If Nagy kept doing that, both, the int and the fumble by Trubisky doesn’t happen, and you win the game! But no! Nagy is ”Be You”, he can’t accept that his system doesn’t work.

 

[Visionman]

2020 NFL Offensive Play Selection | The Football Database

View the 2020 NFL Offensive Play Selection statistics and stats, including pass and rush percentages for each NFL team.

www.footballdb.com

The bears are running the ball at 37% of the plays, which puts them in the bottom 1/8th of the league. They also are running shotgun plays around 75% of all offensive plays putting them in the top of the league with that.

the QB sucks. Why is nagy treating this offense like they have a premier QB at the helm? They don’t. The offense needs to be able to run the ball. They need to at the bare minimum try. Nagy has not adjusted at all this year, and that is solely on him.

Many of those shorter pass plays you complain about are actually meant to be a substitute for the run game that isnt working.

Mitch just can't run those plays either...

 

[Broc]

Many of those shorter pass plays you complain about are actually meant to be a substitute for the run game that isnt working.

Um hello?!? The only thing preventing the run game from working is Matt Nagy.

The Bears averaged 7.6 yard per carry from 2 back formations with a lead blocker against the Chargers.

Compared to Nagy's Special person shotgun RPO run game that averaged 3.6 yards per carry (including the 55 yarder) - 1.6 yards per carry when you remove that fluke outlier.

Again, the problem here is Nagy and his ego. He wants to sling the ball 50+ times a game and use the pass to open up the run. He simply refuses to accept that he doesn't have the talent along the OL or at QB and put his ego aside. Instead of making the obvious adjustments necessary to win games he continues to stubbornly repeat the same flawed gameplan and predictably getting the same shitty results.

At what point do people stop making excuses for Nagy? His "I wasn't brought here to run the I-formation" bs is a fucking joke.

Sorry Matt, they brought you here to WIN FUCKING GAMES. I don't care what fucking system you have to run to do it. Evaluate your players and adjust your scheme and game plans accordingly. That's literally your fucking job.

 

[fenderpfunk]

Fortunately for us - this town is big enough for two colossal disappointments. But I do like the idea of this forum falling into two camps a la the ol' Rex vs. Kyle/Cutler vs. McGowan days except it would be "Mitch sucks more" vs. "Nagy sucks more". Ah...the simple yet consistent joys of Bears fandom...

 

[PeterMbangala]

Nagy is O.J. Simpson pretending like the black glove doesn't fit, while he pretends that he's tugging hard on it to get it onto his hand. He's pretending like he's completely hamstrung by Trubisky to the point where he can't even put together a mediocre offensive performance. It's a farce imo. If he was less of a stubborn Special person, this team would be competitive. The fact that it's not, is HIS fault.

He showed the world that Jordan Howard wasn't his guy, shipped him out for next to nothing, drafted his own guy, and has seldom used him except for this past weekend. And the reason he did that, was because he almost broke a NFL record for the least amount of running plays in a game, in a game that was a one-possession contest until after halftime, with his struggling, injured QB just coming back into the lineup. And the reason he ran it this past weekend, was to shut his critics up.

He was brought in to develop Trubisky. The fact that he hasn't, is mostly his fault. People can hate on Trubisky all they want. And I am in agreement, replace him. That does not, however; absolve Nagy. I'm concerned that Nagy gets another QB, and if he's not an instant star, we're going to be going through the same shit. I really don't want that.

No-one is absolving Nagy from blame, at least I'm not. I just think on balance, there is more chance that Nagy's scheme works better with an average QB than Trubisky's play significantly improves with a better scheme.

Given there is close to zero chance Trubisky outlasts Nagy, we will likely get the chance to see this in action when we move on from Mitch in the off season.

As an aside, I am not Team Nagy or Team Mitch. I just want my team to win games. If it turns out Nagy sucks with a new QB, by all means get rid. Pace will also be 100% done at that point too.

All the rest of this discussion is kinda moot until then as it is hard to parse out where the blame lies. Remove one of the variables (Mitch) and then we can talk.

 

[Thedude]

They were. That is the toxic feedback loop we are seeing. He doesn't trust Mitch, so he makes horrendous play calls to avoid Mitch.

Nagy should let Mitch throw it. If he throws a pick then it is on Mitch and not the play call/system.

If I was Nagy I would take the training wheels off and just let Mitch fuck up for 9 games.

This is like a chicken and the egg question. Is Nagy bad because Trubisky is no good? Or is Mitch bad because Nagy can't develop him?

or both are busts which is a big shit sandwich

 

[Chris Sojka]

Who here ever thought the QB was blameless? I supported Cutler, but I knew what he was. I knew that the best way to win with Cutler was to gameplan and playcall like Adam Gase did. It's the same thing with Trubisky, unfortunately. Know his limitations, know his strengths. Mitigate the damage he can do, play to those strengths. Nagy isn't doing that.

I didn't think Cutler was the long-term answer, and I don't think Trubisky is either. But clearly, at this point, we're at least stuck with him through the rest of this season. So why not try to win?

Because Nagy isn't capable of it, that's why. He's stubborn. He's stupid. He can't manage a clock or a game. His personnel decisions are shit. If you hand him a good player, he doesn't know how to put that player in a position to succeed. He kneels down and loses 2 yards when every good coach in the fucking world would have run the ball with his RB that was tearing shit up that day and put that ball in the middle of the field for his kicker.

People want to talk about Trubisky regressing. Yes, he has. But so has Nagy. He coaches like he's scared. And he's making the same dumb shit decisions he did last year. And they're blowing up in his face again. And what does he do? Essentially sticks his fingers in his ears when reporters are asking him questions about it and goes, "I'M NOT LISTENING! I'M NOT LISTENING!"

He's an embarrassment. I want him gone. I don't even want to see what he can do with another QB. We already gave him another RB, and shipped our good one off to some other team for fucking peanuts. And the only reason he used this new RB, is because he was tired of getting constant shit for not running the ball. What the fuck is that? Ugh, he's so bad.

This is correct.

The NFL players and coaches who put themselves and thier achievements befire the goals of winning a superbowl dont win many if any superbowls.

Belichik could give a shit less about brady being the all time best QB in TDs and Completions. Unless he is the Superbowl champ none of that matters.

 

[SugarWalls]

Many of those shorter pass plays you complain about are actually meant to be a substitute for the run game that isnt working.

Mitch just can't run those plays either...

A short pass play is not a substitution for a run. That’s part of the idiocracy I’m talking about.

 

[SugabearMVP]

2. There are individual breakdowns, especially on the OL.

This is the obvious one that stands out for me game after game this season. When the RB is getting hit before he even reaches the line of scrimmage time after time, I put that on the OL. The blocking sucks, the holes are non existent. If it's not for Montgomery getting extra yards after the hit, nothing happens. End arounds, sweeps get no blocking and are worthless.

 

[Chris Sojka]

Many of those shorter pass plays you complain about are actually meant to be a substitute for the run game that isnt working.

Mitch just can't run those plays either...

no.... he is completing the short substitute shotgun passes... they just aren't going anywhere. No YAC on 1 yard receptions. But hey that's the call...

As Broc pointed out Mitch put together multiple big passes and actually played well and we should have won. Our playcalling is handcuffing the guy and this team. Nagy dreams of his offense running but the personnel on his team is built for anything but what he does.

 

[Chris Sojka]

This is the obvious one that stands out for me game after game this season. When the RB is getting hit before he even reaches the line of scrimmage time after time, I put that on the OL. The blocking sucks, the holes are non existent. If it's not for Montgomery getting extra yards after the hit, nothing happens. End arounds, sweeps get no blocking and are worthless.

Its a zone running scheme. The DL is playing the running back on the way to rushing the passer. The league is not stupid. Why on Earth does anyone think that Nagy was going to come in a prove he could outsmart everyone? Where was that evident? I wanna know why people think he is a genius.

 

[Chris Sojka]

I don't have my screen recording software on my work PC but I'll try and make do with screenshots...

Drive 1:
3rd and 11. Bosa blows past Massie for the sack.
Where are those wide open WRs I keep hearing about... weird ?
View attachment 3568

Drive 2:
Back to back passing plays of 24 yards to Miller and 31 yards to Cohen move the Bears from their own 26 to the Chargers 19. Now in the redzone let's see what Nagy dials up.

• 1st and 10 - gimmick Cohen motion, fake toss to Cohen, draw with Monty for -2.
• 2nd and 12 - Coward instantly beat inside before Trubisy can finish 3 step drop while Leno is beat by Ingram spin move, Mitch forced to dump it to Cohen for no gain as predictably no one is open down field in that time frame.
• 3rd and 12 - Screen pass to Cohen who runs across the entire field out of bounds.
• 4th down - Missed FG.

Screens are something this offense should be using a ton of but they are infuriatingly awful at them. How has this not been corrected by now? Yet another coaching issue... But regardless, pussy call by Nagy.

Drive 3:
After an INT by Fuller sets the offense up with the ball on the Chargers 4 yard line. What does Nagy dial up?

• 1st and goal - Special person "pass" sweep to the short side of the field with Patterson
• 2nd and goal - Burton gets bullied into Cohen at the LOS by the CB destroying both their routes. No one else open.

View attachment 3570

• 3rd and goal - 3 TE bunch formation with Patterson and ARob out wide. Patterson doesn't move. All 3 TE's fail to get open. ARob runs corner fade which is covered (CB was shaded inside to cover slant, should of ran a quick out back shoulder instead). Trubisky takes a shot to Shaheen, pass broken up.

View attachment 3571

Drive 4:
Penalty filled drive. We'll pick it up after the second Chargers penalty sets the Bears up with 1st down at the Chi 43.

• 1st and 10 - Incomplete pass to Monty. But wait!! THERE ARE WIDE OPEN WRs BEING MISSED!!!! Oh, wait, scratch that, it's just Patterson who took 1 step forward and stopped and only looks open because his guy is playing off zone coverage.
• 2nd and 10 - False start on Coward.
• 2nd and 15 - Chargers drop into zone. Massie left 1 on 1 with Bosa who flushes Trubisky from the pocket. Sack.
• 3rd and 15 - Chargers drop into zone again. Screen shot as Trubisky's plants his backfoot at the top of his 3 step drop from shotgun. Trubisky rolls right trying to buy time, nobody gets open, has to throw it away out. I suppose he could of checked down to "wide open" Burton for 0 yards tho. ?

View attachment 3575

Drive 5:
Another big play to Miller for 35 yards sets the Bears up at the LAC 24 but let's pretend that didn't happen because it doesn't fit our Trubisky can't hit open receivers down field narrative. Let's pick up in the redzone after a LAC penalty sets up the Bears with 1st and goal from the 9...

• 1st and goal - Shotgun formation inside zone to Cohen who tries to bounce it outside for no gain because Daniels gets beat inside across his face.
• 2nd and goal - Incomplete slant to ARob. Terrible ball placement by Mitch behind Arob. This one is totally on him.
• 3rd and goal - Give up call by Nagy. Counter inside zone to Cohen. Play blown up by stunt by Ingram who throws Whitehair to the ground. Cohen predictably runs completely across the field out of bounds yet again for no 2 yards.

View attachment 3577

• 4th and goal - FG.

Drive 6:
Final drive before halftime. Thanks to Monty's 55 yard run and two LAC penalties on 3rd down the Bears have driven the ball to the 1 fucking yard line. Let's pick it up there.

• 1st and goal - Gimmick formation by Nagy. 4 receivers bunched to the right, Shaheen singled on the left. Chargers not fooled, crowd the LOS and bat down the slant to Shaheen.
• 2nd and goal - Yet another shotgun formation, 3 WR, 1 TE set. Inside RPO predictably stuffed.
• 3rd and goal - Spike to stop the clock. Fucking kill me.

HALFTIME!!

You could literally take this argument into a film session and on ESPN and humiliate people who think they know what they are watching... Colin Cowherd especially...

Face it the Bears might have just hired the wrong guy. "I wanna do things my way" when its a lot easier and potentially more effective to do it another. IDK about any of you but this was the first time the ball was spread around to every WR. It wasn't just all A rob with a few scattered passes to other guys. Everyone was involved and that is largely in part because of the RUN setting up the pass.

Thanks for this great analysis Broc

 

[Broc]

Face it the Bears might have just hired the wrong guy. "I wanna do things my way" when its a lot easier and potentially more effective to do it another. IDK about any of you but this was the first time the ball was spread around to every WR. It wasn't just all A rob with a few scattered passes to other guys. Everyone was involved and that is largely in part because of the RUN setting up the pass.

Nagy could be the right guy. He just needs to check his ego, stop being so married to his "scheme", and be an actual head coach, not just head OC. Let someone else call the plays. Literally anyone else.

All the gimmick shit that never works, all those trap goalline plays, the constant shotgun.. TRASH THAT SHIT.

The answers for Nagy should be obvious. You got fucking undefeated San Fran staring you right in the face at 7-0 by running the ball to the tune of 181 yards/game (with a FB imagine that) and playing good defense thus making life easy for their mediocre QB who's barely had to do anything all season.

That's what this teams identity should be. But apparently Nagy is intent on cramming his gimmick RPO identity that doesn't work down our throats even though he doesn't have the roster for it. Worse still, he's the only guy in America that doesn't realize it.

Can't wait to see what he rolls out this week. Is he going to change to what can actually work or no?

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Nagy could be the right guy. He just needs to check his ego, stop being so married to his "scheme", and be an actual head coach, not just head OC. Let someone else call the plays. Literally anyone else.

All the gimmick shit that never works, all those trap goalline plays, the constant shotgun.. TRASH THAT SHIT.

The answers for Nagy should be obvious. You got fucking undefeated San Fran staring you right in the face at 7-0 by running the ball to the tune of 181 yards/game (with a FB imagine that) and playing good defense thus making life easy for their mediocre QB who's barely had to do anything all season.

That's what this teams identity should be. But apparently Nagy is intent on cramming his gimmick RPO identity that doesn't work down our throats even though he doesn't have the roster for it. Worse still, he's the only guy in America that doesn't realize it.

Can't wait to see what he rolls out this week. Is he going to change to what can actually work or no?

I thought he showed some definite signs of getting away from the gimmick shit vs LA. Was it 27 carries for Monty, 10 out of the Eye...loved it. Nagy has to build off of that and use the run game, and play action, and maybe an occasional gimmick play.

That brings up Fletcher Cox and his D line bros that have owned the Bears O line. The difference is no KL, Coward is said to have a nasty side and his strength is run blocking. It could make a difference( helping Daniels and Whitehair) if Nagy commits to running the ball thus allowing the Oline a chance to fire off the ball and establish position instead of the pussy foot prancing Nancy gimmick play calling.

 

[DrGonzo]

Are we forgetting the one thing Nagy and Trubisky have in common?





Hint: it's Pace

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Are we forgetting the one thing Nagy and Trubisky have in common?





Hint: it's Pace

I thought you were going to say low offensive production.

 

[Exhibit_A]

I don't know. I see open receivers all the time on replays. Not saying Nagy isnt a disappointment, but mitch sure isnt helping him look good.

Well in my opinion if Trubisky had a solid line and more time to throw he would probably have a better opportunity to see them.. instead he looks like he is rushing, panicking, and standing in the pocket like a statue. Last year he took off running and was hard to stop so i bet dumb ass Nagy has something to do with that this year.. also how is it Trubisky’s fault that our offense is one dimensional? Every defense knows what we are gonna pass.. supposedly Nagy is an offensive guru.. offensive guru my ass! I think it’s 110% on Nagy since he even proved to be a douche lunatic after the game!

 

[Exhibit_A]

What exactly are Mitch’s strengths?

He can run the ball, which Mitch chose to stop doing.

He is inaccurate
He has an okay arm at best
He does not read defenses well
His feet are a mess
His pocket presence last season was good but hasn’t turned to shit.

I bet Nagy has something to do with Mitch not running..

 

[Exhibit_A]

I'd take a game manger like Chase, where you at least know what you're getting and can game plan and build around, rather than Mitch, who you just have to hope and pray he can make enough plays, and fewer bad plays, so you have a chance.

You mean a game manager like chase that throws free gifts right to the defenders like he did against the giants last year and raiders this year?

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Keeps running the ball? He ran the ball correctly one game and slmost had 400 yards of offense.

Hes been struggling to get to 200

What? Your reply makes no sense to what I was saying. Pay attention to what I say next time, thanks in advance.