NFL has suspended full time referee program

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I get the catch rule changes have been a cluster fuck, but who among us wouldn't quit their job tomorrow to take a $175-200k/yr job to pal around NFL players and coaches, travel the country, stay in posh hotels and eat at the best restaurants? There would be no shortage of willing and able well educated individuals to put in extra work and do it year round that I believe would improve the on field calls, crew continuity, and decision making. Add an eye in the sky official with buzz down capability on all plays but with an egregious missed call threshold and I could fix the majority of reffing issues in 2-3 seasons.

So I know 2 NFL refs, and they’ll both tell you that meet with their crews at least three times in the offseason, and can get every tape, of every game, at every angle, whenever they want.


I guess lost in all of this debate about whether or not they should be full time is this idea that they’re only preparing for the season once August hits. It’s simply not true. Why anyone thinks that once you’ve reached the pinnacle of a profession that you’d just stop working at it is beyond me.

Hell, local NCAA ref meetings have taken place since 2 weeks after Clemson whooped Bama.

 

[zack54attack]

I'm on his ignore list, so he won't see this, but let me try to de-gimp his words:

He's arguing that because the rules committee wants referees to call things in a certain way it's unfair to criticize individual referees for making mistakes on calls. However, he's not taking into account that while the NFL wants "it called this way," that doesn't mean every official will always see the individual play the way we see it.

To give a slight example. A few years ago, every level of basketball but the NBA instituted a rule about the defender having hands on the ball handler (I think it was when it was in the paint, but I'm not too sure the specifics. Guys like @zack54attack @FirstTimer or @bamainatlanta can probably remember this better). Well all it did was cause free throw contests, because the refs were calling it the way the NCAA wanted them to call it. Coaches and commentators weren't giving shit to the individual referee crews, but to the NCAA. So much so that they scrapped the rule halfway through the season.

Correct. There was a dumb rule about hand checking or whatever in the paint in NCAA. Made the game worse.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Yeah that was a weird one. One Saturday you got every commentator complaining about the new rule, then on Monday the amount of free throws were cut in half.

 

[iueyedoc]

So I know 2 NFL refs, and they’ll both tell you that meet with their crews at least three times in the offseason, and can get every tape, of every game, at every angle, whenever they want.


I guess lost in all of this debate about whether or not they should be full time is this idea that they’re only preparing for the season once August hits. It’s simply not true. Why anyone thinks that once you’ve reached the pinnacle of a profession that you’d just stop working at it is beyond me.

Hell, local NCAA ref meetings have taken place since 2 weeks after Clemson whooped Bama.

I never imagined they didn't meet in the offseason. Honestly only meeting 3 times in 6 months of non-football action is astonishingly low. And access to tape whenever they want is waaaay different than reviewing, discussing, and running simulations 40 hours a week. At $200K it should be a 12month a year job, maybe cut the hours during the summer a bit, but expecting some judge, lawyer, or doctor to spend the time year round needed to stay sharp as could be possible is unrealistic. If the officiating in season was good, fine,part timers would be great, but when was the last time you thought on field officiating was adequate?

 

[Visionman]

I never imagined they didn't meet in the offseason. Honestly only meeting 3 times in 6 months of non-football action is astonishingly low. And access to tape whenever they want is waaaay different than reviewing, discussing, and running simulations 40 hours a week. At $200K it should be a 12month a year job, maybe cut the hours during the summer a bit, but expecting some judge, lawyer, or doctor to spend the time year round needed to stay sharp as could be possible is unrealistic. If the officiating in season was good, fine,part timers would be great, but when was the last time you thought on field officiating was adequate?

But again, how does all that extra time and money spent ensure a better product? What proof do you have that reviewing and talking about tape 24/7 all off-season will lead to better officiating?

You say you're a business guy. Would you pour all those resources into something just on a thought that it may improve the quality of the product? Or would you make sure there was going to be a solid ROI first?

 

[iueyedoc]

But again, how does all that extra time and money spent ensure a better product? What proof do you have that reviewing and talking about tape 24/7 all off-season will lead to better officiating?

You say you're a business guy. Would you pour all those resources into something just on a thought that it may improve the quality of the product? Or would you make sure there was going to be a solid ROI first?

So you are asking for proven results from something that has never been done.

And as far as pouring resources into it:
1) They are already paying these guys $200K. Just create a recruitment system to obtain and train the best lower level officials and make them full time employees rather than lawyers with a sweet side gig.
2) LTFOL at any major company that doesn't do R&D to improve their product. Come to think of it, those all would be former bankrupt companies. Hell , with your train of thought they would still be playing football on polo grounds in leather helmets, I mean why would they want to invest in fancy stadiums, practice facilities, and improved equipment without proof of a solid ROI.

Honestly, you have severely misnamed yourself on here as you lack any vision whatsoever.

 

[remydat]

I never imagined they didn't meet in the offseason. Honestly only meeting 3 times in 6 months of non-football action is astonishingly low. And access to tape whenever they want is waaaay different than reviewing, discussing, and running simulations 40 hours a week. At $200K it should be a 12month a year job, maybe cut the hours during the summer a bit, but expecting some judge, lawyer, or doctor to spend the time year round needed to stay sharp as could be possible is unrealistic. If the officiating in season was good, fine,part timers would be great, but when was the last time you thought on field officiating was adequate?

But isnt the potential problem that when they say full time they dont actually mean working 40 hours a week?

Beginning immediately, any of the 124 current officials can apply for full-time status. They will be allowed to work outside of the league, according to the agreement, but their NFL duties must be given top priority.

"It is definitely a priority shift," Green said. "The NFL will have to be their priority employer. But there is no restriction other than 'be available,' and ultimately the NFL will decide if you're able to do that."

Some officials are retired or semi-retired from their current job. Some feel confident they can keep their side work while prioritizing the NFL. Remember that the cap at this point is 24, which is only 20 percent of the current roster. Advanced math suggests that 80 percent of officials in 2017 won't be full time.

Why the NFL is finally hiring full-time officials

How will this work? What will this mean for the industry? And, most importantly, will it improve the state of officiating?

www.espn.com

That lawyer or judge who is full time is still probably working his regular gig in the offseason because full time here appears to just mean working some hours here and there in the offseason not actually working 40 hours a week.

If it actually is 40 hours a week then that would perhaps be beneficial.

 

[iueyedoc]

But isnt the potential problem that when they say full time they dont actually mean working 40 hours a week? That lawyer or judge who is full time is still probably working his regular gig in the offseason because full time here appears to just mean working some hours here and there in the offseason not actually working 40 hours a week.

If it actually is 40 hours a week then that would perhaps be beneficial.

My entire point has been to make them year round full time employed refs. Full time is generally defined as 32-40 hr per wk.They are already paying guys $200K, so a shortage of qualified individuals would not be an issue. Then set up a recruitment and training program paying guys $50-100K, sort of like an apprenticeship program. The pipeline of thoroughly trained refs would be endless.

 

[remydat]

My entire point has been to make them year round full time employed refs. Full time is generally defined as 32-40 hr per wk.They are already paying guys $200K, so a shortage of qualified individuals would not be an issue. Then set up a recruitment and training program paying guys $50-100K, sort of like an apprenticeship program. The pipeline of thoroughly trained refs would be endless.

Yeah I would agree with that approach. I am just saying that is not really what was happening in the current program. So I think Vision has a point that the current full time program probably doesnt move the needle much in terms of on field officiating and I think you have a point that if you actually made them proper full time employees that perhaps would improve things.

Think the impediment to that is the lawyers and judges currently like the fact the NFL allows them to work their regular job while still being paid "full time" so more than likely you would need to recruit more from people with lesser job prospects. I always thought it made more sense to have referees developed from former players. If they were full time and working 40 hours a week then that would be more than enough time to get then trained up on the rules as well as give them time to workout as I think physical fitness should be a requirement. Being unable to run and keep up with the play is probably one factor in missed calls.

 

[Visionman]

So you are asking for proven results from something that has never been done.

And as far as pouring resources into it:
1) They are already paying these guys $200K. Just create a recruitment system to obtain and train the best lower level officials and make them full time employees rather than lawyers with a sweet side gig.
2) LTFOL at any major company that doesn't do R&D to improve their product. Come to think of it, those all would be former bankrupt companies. Hell , with your train of thought they would still be playing football on polo grounds in leather helmets, I mean why would they want to invest in fancy stadiums, practice facilities, and improved equipment without proof of a solid ROI.

Honestly, you have severely misnamed yourself on here as you lack any vision whatsoever.

Every major company weighs risk vs. Reward. What you are suggesting is great for a brainstorm session. And I'm sure the NFL has talked about it.

But as a legit plan that could actually work? You have shown nothing. And it's not near as simple as you imply yo change it. It would take MILLIONS in investment and countless hours to make those changes. All with only a hope that things on the end may be better. On top of that, this thread is about them scrapping the full time refs idea, BECAUSE IT ALREADY PROVED TO NOT MAKE OFFICIATING BETTER. They already researched it, and experimented with it, and decided it wasn't worth it. Now you suggest doubling down as the solution to fixing it? Insanity much???

Your business strategy sucks. But then again, it's not your business. If you are a business person...i hope you manage your own with more sound reasoning...

 

[iueyedoc]

On top of that, this thread is about them scrapping the full time refs idea, BECAUSE IT ALREADY PROVED TO NOT MAKE OFFICIATING BETTER. They already researched it, and experimented with it, and decided it wasn't worth it. Now you suggest doubling down as the solution to fixing it? Insanity much???

Your business strategy sucks. But then again, it's not your business. If you are a business person...i hope you manage your own with more sound reasoning...

They are scrapping the 2 yr program that employed 21 and 24 full time refs out of 122 total due to upcoming NFLRA labor negotiations. It has nothing at all to do with the success or failure of the program and certainly could not determine how employing and training every ref full time would benefit the NFL.

Your inability to comprehend even the basic premise of what the article has said and the differences in what they have recently tried and what I am suggesting has become too exhausting to continue this discussion with you.

Thanks for trying.

 

[iueyedoc]

Yeah I would agree with that approach. I am just saying that is not really what was happening in the current program. So I think Vision has a point that the current full time program probably doesnt move the needle much in terms of on field officiating and I think you have a point that if you actually made them proper full time employees that perhaps would improve things.

Think the impediment to that is the lawyers and judges currently like the fact the NFL allows them to work their regular job while still being paid "full time" so more than likely you would need to recruit more from people with lesser job prospects. I always thought it made more sense to have referees developed from former players. If they were full time and working 40 hours a week then that would be more than enough time to get then trained up on the rules as well as give them time to workout as I think physical fitness should be a requirement. Being unable to run and keep up with the play is probably one factor in missed calls.

We are in agreement on this matter.

 

[Visionman]

They are scrapping the 2 yr program that employed 21 and 24 full time refs out of 122 total due to upcoming NFLRA labor negotiations. It has nothing at all to do with the success or failure of the program and certainly could not determine how employing and training every ref full time would benefit the NFL.

Your inability to comprehend even the basic premise of what the article has said and the differences in what they have recently tried and what I am suggesting has become too exhausting to continue this discussion with you.

Thanks for trying.

Well let's put it this way: the NFL as a multi billion dollar Corporation disagrees with you, so...

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I never imagined they didn't meet in the offseason. Honestly only meeting 3 times in 6 months of non-football action is astonishingly low. And access to tape whenever they want is waaaay different than reviewing, discussing, and running simulations 40 hours a week. At $200K it should be a 12month a year job, maybe cut the hours during the summer a bit, but expecting some judge, lawyer, or doctor to spend the time year round needed to stay sharp as could be possible is unrealistic. If the officiating in season was good, fine,part timers would be great, but when was the last time you thought on field officiating was adequate?

So then I imagine the NFL is requiring all of the officials to live in one area, or no?

 

[iueyedoc]

So then I imagine the NFL is requiring all of the officials to live in one area, or no?

They could, just like any group of employees working at a company. There were 122 refs last season, so they could also have regional offices, NFL Dunder Mifflin's, where they group in 20 or 30. Once it became their full time occupation instead of a part time avocation, job relocation and everything else would become like any other job.

 

[Toast88]

And how does it make them see things better if it's not just a side gig? Or do you think there are a bunch of eagle-eyed wanna be refs sitting on their couches at home just waiting for the NFL to Be willing to pay them enough...

I don't think the issue is that they don't see.

Like any job, when you're paid to do it full time, you take it more seriously and take the time to study, get more reps in, get better at it.

I don't buy that it wouldn't make a difference if the refs had more time to look at tape, familiarize themselves with various rules and just generally be in the mindset of, "This is my job. This is what I've got."

 

[Visionman]

I don't think the issue is that they don't see.

Like any job, when you're paid to do it full time, you take it more seriously and take the time to study, get more reps in, get better at it.

I don't buy that it wouldn't make a difference if the refs had more time to look at tape, familiarize themselves with various rules and just generally be in the mindset of, "This is my job. This is what I've got."

So you think having their faces shown to millions of people every week doesn't concern them at all? Death threats for blown calls make them and their families laugh?

 

[Toast88]

So you think having their faces shown to millions of people every week doesn't concern them at all? Death threats for blown calls make them and their families laugh?

False equivalencies and putting words in people's mouths don't a good argument make. Be better.

 

[Mdbearz]

My Question is do the Ref NEED to be working in the off season or do they WANT to be working in the off season. Teachers around this country deal with this every year.

If the NFL is requiring the refs to attend certain meetings or events during the off season then they need to be paid during those events. When the new season kicks off, then they become seasonal full time workers that can receive benefits.

Becoming an NFL ref, is no joke, these guys compete, and must be very good to reach this level (even though we see huge mistakes every year).

Just because the NFL has the money to pay the refs, does not mean that they should be required to essentially give them money if they are not earning it in the off season.

 

[Visionman]

False equivalencies and putting words in people's mouths don't a good argument make. Be better.

You said when you're paid more, you care more. At a normal job, yes. But a NFL ref is not anythong close to a normal job. So answer the questions...