Offseason rumors/discussion thread

CSF77

Well-known member
13,136
1,920
75
Eventually you have a camera snap 5 angles on a play and a invisible ref calls to a automated announcement system out or safe. No arguments. No challenges. Game becomes automated. Fans can't get emotional over precieved calls because no one to get mad at. No come on blue. Game becomes unwatchable because the human factor is removed and becomes another automation because of accuracy. Basically the city of Detroit.

sometimes it is all about cause and effect and preservation of traditions that matter.
 

Castor76

New member
326
2
2
Pandora's box.
Chicken Little.

A uniform strike zone that doesn't change from ump to ump takes pressure off the umps to give or take on those calls and then managers and players and fans have one of the most important parts of the game no longer in question. There's already the ability to do this, so tell me the real downside.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
13,136
1,920
75
Chicken Little.

A uniform strike zone that doesn't change from ump to ump takes pressure off the umps to give or take on those calls and then managers and players and fans have one of the most important parts of the game no longer in question. There's already the ability to do this, so tell me the real downside.
Guess the term doesn't affect you. Or you dont understand it. That is fine. Your viepoint helped destroy the industrial age in America.

But that is fine. Step 1 ends up turning into a unintend path that is why tradition matters.
 

Castor76

New member
326
2
2
Guess the term doesn't affect you. Or you dont understand it. That is fine. Your viepoint helped destroy the industrial age in America.

But that is fine. Step 1 ends up turning into a unintend path that is why tradition matters.
And the tractor was going to be the end of agriculture jobs and people would have nothing to do. People just find other jobs in other places. It's not like you won't need a home plate ump still.

There are lots of things that were tradition that weren't good. Some are. Personal grudges between players/managers and umps that affect calls I'd say are in the not good category.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
11,101
3,231
75
I don't want robo umps honestly. I actually like some inaccuracy. Obviously you don't want someone who's egregiously bad being an ump but in my personal opinion having a varying strike zone day to day with different umps creates different narratives. Also gives people a villain should they choose to see it that way. Plus you play 162 games. It's unlikely most seasons that one or two bad ump games are really going to matter much.

I might be convinced a bit more about doing something for the playoffs because huge calls there can make a really big difference. But overall I sorta like how random the MLB is. You really never know what a season is going to look like because it's a more random game than most other sports.
 

Castor76

New member
326
2
2
I don't want robo umps honestly. I actually like some inaccuracy. Obviously you don't want someone who's egregiously bad being an ump but in my personal opinion having a varying strike zone day to day with different umps creates different narratives. Also gives people a villain should they choose to see it that way. Plus you play 162 games. It's unlikely most seasons that one or two bad ump games are really going to matter much.

I might be convinced a bit more about doing something for the playoffs because huge calls there can make a really big difference. But overall I sorta like how random the MLB is. You really never know what a season is going to look like because it's a more random game than most other sports.
Because one or two games never make a difference to playoffs or home field or anything like that.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
11,101
3,231
75
Because one or two games never make a difference to playoffs or home field or anything like that.
I mean that cuts both ways. Sure you're gonna lose some games but you're also going to win some. I just don't see it as determinative in a 162 game season. I can see the point in playoffs however but then again in theory the best of best umps should be in the playoffs.
 

Castor76

New member
326
2
2
I mean that cuts both ways. Sure you're gonna lose some games but you're also going to win some. I just don't see it as determinative in a 162 game season. I can see the point in playoffs however but then again in theory the best of best umps should be in the playoffs.
So you're fine with it so long as everyone ends up bloody even though we can do it where no one does. The strike zone is the single greatest determining factor in any baseball game. Evening that part of the game makes the game better.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
11,101
3,231
75
So you're fine with it so long as everyone ends up bloody even though we can do it where no one does. The strike zone is the single greatest determining factor in any baseball game. Evening that part of the game makes the game better.
You're welcome to your opinion but I just don't agree that "perfect" makes the game "better." I mean look at it like this, how has replay changed sports? Just from my gut I'd say at max you're talking about 10-15% of the time that it overturns a particularly egregious call. I'd argue that 5-10% they still blow a call and the remaining is either confirmation of what a play was called or inconclusive info. So for that 10-15% chance of overturning bad calls you're paying both with inadvertent cases such as the whole splitting hairs aspect of tagging 2nd on a double play ball as well as the fact it slows down the game.

And the thing is, that replay only happens a couple of times a game. You're now talking about 200 times+ a game where a machine is making calls. And what happens when the calibration on the machine is off? Statcast doesn't just always "work." Sometimes it doesn't get a good reading on a pitch for whatever reason.

But to me all that stuff is secondary. I like that the game is flawed. I like that there's a human element to making/missing calls. If you don't agree with that then fine. But I don't really think it makes a game undeniably better. Reading the strike zone on any given day is an art presently. I like that. I don't want it to be as cold and methodical as relying on pitch tracking. I also like the fact that soft skills like framing matter. It allows players to find value in a system.
 

JimJohnson

Well-known member
4,378
630
70
I mean that cuts both ways. Sure you're gonna lose some games but you're also going to win some. I just don't see it as determinative in a 162 game season. I can see the point in playoffs however but then again in theory the best of best umps should be in the playoffs.
Okay so let's do it in the playoffs then. Agreed?
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
11,101
3,231
75
Okay so let's do it in the playoffs then. Agreed?
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it in the playoffs. Like I get the point as mentioned but as i said i'm just not a fan of robo umps. IDK like... i guess I sort of just feel like dealing with umps is like playing in bad weather in football. For example, every team could literally play indoors. And in fact west coast teams are at a disadvantage when coming to cold weather out door stadiums. So, the "perfect" situation would be for the players to play in doors in the best possible conditions. But I like that weather is a part of the game in football. It adds character to the storytelling of the game.

Likewise that's basically how I feel about umps. There's some umps I'd like to see the MLB get rid of(joe west comes to mind) but for the most part I just really don't care. As long as the umps are calling a game consistently it isn't an issue to me if it is to the rule book definition of the strike zone.
 

JimJohnson

Well-known member
4,378
630
70
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it in the playoffs. Like I get the point as mentioned but as i said i'm just not a fan of robo umps. IDK like... i guess I sort of just feel like dealing with umps is like playing in bad weather in football. For example, every team could literally play indoors. And in fact west coast teams are at a disadvantage when coming to cold weather out door stadiums. So, the "perfect" situation would be for the players to play in doors in the best possible conditions. But I like that weather is a part of the game in football. It adds character to the storytelling of the game.

Likewise that's basically how I feel about umps. There's some umps I'd like to see the MLB get rid of(joe west comes to mind) but for the most part I just really don't care. As long as the umps are calling a game consistently it isn't an issue to me if it is to the rule book definition of the strike zone.
The problem is the consistency though. One guy may get the calls because of who he is and the other guy may not.

That's not good man. Introduces the possibility of umpire bias entering into the equation.
 

JimJohnson

Well-known member
4,378
630
70
Also worth noting the cubs appear to be doing a lot of the new fancy stuff driveline is. For those not familiar, driveline is a business that specializes in like using data to improve players mechanics. I forget the brand name off the top of my head but a lot of the cubs pitchers are wearing this sleeve that tracks their arm movement. And in addition to that, I believe they've set up a system similar to driveline's which basically has pitchers throw into a net and uses cameras and various other crap to track stuff like spin rate and a bunch of other data.

It's all fairly complicated but the upshot of it from what I've read is it essentially can tell a pitcher what they are doing wrong with their delivery rather than just having a pitching coach look at a guy. It can be really granular like think i remember reading one of the cubs pitchers had issues because his plant foot was landing pointed slightly the wrong direction or something and it was throwing off command. Crazy stuff like that.

One of the most interesting aspects of all this tech is they apparently have the ability to build pitches from the ground up. Because you can so granularly track stuff you can take a pitcher like say Kluber who has a nasty curve and you can see what he does. You then can basically practice doing what he does by throwing into a net and essentially try to mimic the motions of players who have great pitches. I think with this sort of data they can also essentially take guys who have a similar profile to you pitching and sorta match up things that work well for those players and have you sorta try to emulate things they do that you don't.

So, Darvish saying this is the best stuff of his career... it's not that far fetched when you can incorporate this sort of stuff. I also believe this is an area the Astros were first to jump into very heavy and we've seen how guys they have just suddenly started throwing really crazy stuff.
Yeah the best stuff of his career. LMAO

I told you about this mental midget Darvish
 
Top