Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[RacerX]

I'm a bit concerned that the Harper contract will profile similarly to Pujols, i.e., mega-contract where the player isn't a bust but the ROI jis far from optimized

If spent correctly, we could get far greater value for $300 million IMO. OTOH, Darvish + Shitwood.

 

[CSF77]

I'm a bit concerned that the Harper contract will profile similarly to Pujols, i.e., mega-contract where the player isn't a bust but the ROI jis far from optimized

If spent correctly, we could get far greater value for $300 million IMO. OTOH, Darvish + Shitwood.

Maybe. Chutwood was broken. Darvish was injured. Morrow got injured. Duesing was broken. If you look at 2019 the only deal that worked was Cishek. That is why you don’t because you look over the term in hindsight. It would be the same if you sign a 4 year and year 3 was injured and the other were good value. You preceve it better because there is history. Heyward falls here. He most likely never shakes his image even if he puts up a .300 season again. He hit .270 this year and no one was speaking well of him.

I wouldn’t call Darvish anything yet. Chutwood honestly has a long road due to a pen arm doesn’t justify his pay check. Fixed or not. Duesing could just bounce back. Really don’t care about him regardless.

If ya get went with a volume approach I would go this direction:

Closer: Holland. Incentive laced deal. Injury happens and you really need a guy that can go back to back closing.
3B Beltre. Already said he would play with Darvish and Hamels. This makes sense with Bryant’s injuries.

This costs no talent but adds 2 vets in unstable situations.

After that you really want to look at production. Schwarber and Happ both mirrored each other. High strike outs. High walks low hits. I don’t see the wisdom retaining both.

So what do they do? Going that direction I would want a starting 2B and push Bryant to LF myself. Limit the damage. After that I need a lead off and Fowler is a interesting option. Mostly due to no real ones out there. Billy Hamilton is another but that OBA makes Juan Pierre look like Ricky Henderson.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm going to say something that's probably not fair. It's entirely speculation on my part so take that for what it's worth. I recently read something from Passan. In the article there's this quote

Who, exactly, are the Cubs? They are Kris Bryant, who never looked right, his left shoulder a mess. They are Javier Báez, who filled that superstar slot with aplomb. They are Anthony Rizzo, their heartbeat. They are Willson Contreras, whose postgame tears were the furthest thing from crocodile. They are Lester and Hendricks and José Quintana, the base of a strong starting rotation.

They are also Jason Heyward for five more years and Yu Darvish for five more years and Tyler Chatwood for two more years. The three will make more than $50 million next season alone. They are a team that preaches culture – and still has a player in the middle of a must-win game sitting in the clubhouse and scrolling through an iPad, much to the chagrin of others in the dugout who were living and dying with every pitch. They are in that awkward place where they need to start considering the future as well as the present, lest the latter bleed into the former and cause the chaos spiral of other successful franchises that lost sight of their window and watched it slam on their fingers.

In theo's comments after the season and I'm paraphrasing here but he essentially said they need production not talent. To cut to the chase here I'm wondering if both these comments are referring to Happ. Happ had a worse year than last year. In this year he was worse in the second half than he was in the first hitting .196/.313/.340. Joe played him less in the second half despite Bryant and Russell missing large swaths of time they didn't in the first half. I mean how often was Bote playing rather than Happ? He had 280 PAs in 79 games in the first half vs 182 in 56 in the second which translates to 3.54 and 3.25 PAs per game he was in.

As I said to start, I'm likely being entirely unfair but does Happ strike anyone as a guy living and dying with every pitch? Simply put I can't see it being any of the pitchers because the starters were praised prior to the comment and the bullpen guys would be in the bullpen. The positional players who started would be on the field not in the club house. And of the bench bats Heyward and Schwarber don't strike me as relating to that given how much each has put in the past offseason(s). By my estimation that would leave Caratini and Happ and I guess Gore but are we really going to bring a pinch runner into that conversation? There's also La Stella but again doesn't seem worth mentioning him.

 

[Omeletpants]

I'm going to say something that's probably not fair. It's entirely speculation on my part so take that for what it's worth. I recently read something from Passan. In the article there's this quote



In theo's comments after the season and I'm paraphrasing here but he essentially said they need production not talent. To cut to the chase here I'm wondering if both these comments are referring to Happ. Happ had a worse year than last year. In this year he was worse in the second half than he was in the first hitting .196/.313/.340. Joe played him less in the second half despite Bryant and Russell missing large swaths of time they didn't in the first half. I mean how often was Bote playing rather than Happ? He had 280 PAs in 79 games in the first half vs 182 in 56 in the second which translates to 3.54 and 3.25 PAs per game he was in.

As I said to start, I'm likely being entirely unfair but does Happ strike anyone as a guy living and dying with every pitch?

Where do you come up with that. I watch him more than most, and I see a guy that is super focused. He is never goofing off in the dugout and always has his eyes on the game. Sometimes I think he too intense. Like everyone else on this team, he is a great teammate and always trying to pump up others.

 

[beckdawg]

Where do you come up with that.

Where was he the last 2 months of the season? I mean maybe I missed something but I follow the cubs fairly closely and barely knew he was on the team. And Like I said pure speculation on my part so maybe I'm wrong. But if I'm wrong those comments I reference were talking about someone and it damn sure wasn't Schwarber who came back when even the team said he was done for the season to play in a WS game. I can't imagine it is Heyward based on everything that's been written about how hard a worker he is. Almora was on the field for the game and he plays balls out defensively in every game.

Maybe Passan has it wrong but theo is clearly referencing someone or multiple people.

 

[Omeletpants]

Where was he the last 2 months of the season? I mean maybe I missed something but I follow the cubs fairly closely and barely knew he was on the team. And Like I said pure speculation on my part so maybe I'm wrong. But if I'm wrong those comments I reference were talking about someone and it damn sure wasn't Schwarber who came back when even the team said he was done for the season to play in a WS game. I can't imagine it is Heyward based on everything that's been written about how hard a worker he is. Almora was on the field for the game and he plays balls out defensively in every game.

Maybe Passan has it wrong but theo is clearly referencing someone or multiple people.

What do you mean "you barely knew he was on the team"?

He played when called upon and played hard every play. When not in the game, he was on the dugout rail cheering others on. Never saw any lack of hustle. If he has an issue, it's probably that he is too intense, which may be a little off putting to his teammates. You are normally very insightful, but on this one you are totally off base

 

[beckdawg]

You are normally very insightful, but on this one you are totally off base

Maybe but again, why did he play less in the second half? Why was he substantially worse in the second half statistically? The cubs team obviously knew their offense was having problems. If he's the guy you say he is shouldn't he have been in the line up more so than say Bote? Don't you find it odd they made room in the line up for bote to take 157 PAs in the second half of the season where Happ only took 182? Happ is a guy who hit 24 HR's last year and Bote wasn't even a prospect in most people's eyes until late last year.

Doesn't that strike you as odd? Something there just doesn't add up to me. The cubs weren't scoring and Happ got fewer PAs every month after June going 71 in June to 65 in July, to 64 in Aug to 56 in Sept. I mean I get the guy wasn't hitting well in the second half but there were a lot of cubs in the back half of the line up that applied to and this was the guy they thought was good enough to be their opening day lead off hitter.

And that leads me to ask why? Joe sat through 3 months of Schwarber hitting poorly last year because there was faith there. So what about Happ caused him to phase him out in the second half of the season?

 

[Omeletpants]

Maybe but again, why did he play less in the second half? Why was he substantially worse in the second half statistically? The cubs team obviously knew their offense was having problems. If he's the guy you say he is shouldn't he have been in the line up more so than say Bote? Don't you find it odd they made room in the line up for bote to take 157 PAs in the second half of the season where Happ only took 182? Happ is a guy who hit 24 HR's last year and Bote wasn't even a prospect in most people's eyes until late last year.

Doesn't that strike you as odd? Something there just doesn't add up to me. The cubs weren't scoring and Happ got fewer PAs every month after June going 71 in June to 65 in July, to 64 in Aug to 56 in Sept. I mean I get the guy wasn't hitting well in the second half but there were a lot of cubs in the back half of the line up that applied to and this was the guy they thought was good enough to be their opening day lead off hitter.

And that leads me to ask why? Joe sat through 3 months of Schwarber hitting poorly last year because there was faith there. So what about Happ caused him to phase him out in the second half of the season?

His performance and desire are two different things. I thought Happ was playing more in the second half than his performance warranted. Almora's playing time was also sporadic. Same for Contreras who sat more this year than I would have expected. Maybe we chalk playing time issues up to crazy joe and not Happ's motivation. As I said, he borders on too much intensity

 

[beckdawg]

His performance and desire are two different things. I thought Happ was playing more in the second half than his performance warranted. Almora's playing time was also sporadic. Same for Contreras who sat more this year than I would have expected. Maybe we chalk playing time issues up to crazy joe and not Happ's motivation. As I said, he borders on too much intensity

Well like I said it's pure speculation on my part but Passan seemingly had either direct knowledge of someone causing issues or got that second hand from players/personnel. And just logically there's only 2-3 guys I think it could be.

IDK it just struck a cord with me when you combine that with what theo said about it being time to stop looking at talent and start looking at performance because Happ in my opinion was easily the most disappointing player this year when you talk about pre-season expectations vs what he actually did.

 

[Omeletpants]

Well like I said it's pure speculation on my part but Passan seemingly had either direct knowledge of someone causing issues or got that second hand from players/personnel. And just logically there's only 2-3 guys I think it could be.

IDK it just struck a cord with me when you combine that with what theo said about it being time to stop looking at talent and start looking at performance because Happ in my opinion was easily the most disappointing player this year when you talk about pre-season expectations vs what he actually did.

I'm with Theo. We all get attached to certain player. Happ was my guy cause of last year and the potential I saw. But at this point, I dont care who needs to leave or come. That's Theo's job. I no longer have any attachments. If Bryant or Rizzo needs to go then fine with me. I don't care anymore. It's about the fans, not the players

But dont get rid of Happ for effort cause that's not his problem

 

[beckdawg]

I'm with Theo. We all get attached to certain player. Happ was my guy cause of last year and the potential I saw. But at this point, I dont care who needs to leave or come. That's Theo's job. I no longer have any attachments. If Bryant or Rizzo needs to go then fine with me. I don't care anymore. It's about the fans, not the players

But dont get rid of Happ for effort cause that's not his problem

I'm not going to hate on you like some for liking Happ. I get it. I don't have anything really against him myself. I prefer Schwarber to him but that's not because I think Happ is bad. I just really think Schwarber in his prime is going to be scary good.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Maybe but again, why did he play less in the second half? Why was he substantially worse in the second half statistically? The cubs team obviously knew their offense was having problems. If he's the guy you say he is shouldn't he have been in the line up more so than say Bote? Don't you find it odd they made room in the line up for bote to take 157 PAs in the second half of the season where Happ only took 182? Happ is a guy who hit 24 HR's last year and Bote wasn't even a prospect in most people's eyes until late last year.

Doesn't that strike you as odd? Something there just doesn't add up to me. The cubs weren't scoring and Happ got fewer PAs every month after June going 71 in June to 65 in July, to 64 in Aug to 56 in Sept. I mean I get the guy wasn't hitting well in the second half but there were a lot of cubs in the back half of the line up that applied to and this was the guy they thought was good enough to be their opening day lead off hitter.

And that leads me to ask why? Joe sat through 3 months of Schwarber hitting poorly last year because there was faith there. So what about Happ caused him to phase him out in the second half of the season?

Why would that strike anyone as odd? Bote filled in for Bryant. Bote proved his worth in the IF. Good defensively. Teams caught on to him, which is why his numbers weren't sustainable,. He will have to adjust if he wants to stay up. as for not getting AB's neither did Almora.

 

[Omeletpants]

I'm not going to hate on you like some for liking Happ. I get it. I don't have anything really against him myself. I prefer Schwarber to him but that's not because I think Happ is bad. I just really think Schwarber in his prime is going to be scary good.

and if Happ has to go then I'm ok with that too. I was expecting him to improve and become a star but he blew his chance

I have been watching the Cubs since 1963 and cried when they fell apart in 1969. One great season in almost 55 years is not enough. I have faith in Theo and whoever he wants to trade is fine with me

 

[TL1961]

You're missing the point. What are you going to do with Chatwood? Presumably you think he's shit too. Well they are still on the hook for $25.5 mil with him. So his contract is just as shitty as Fowler's. The difference there is Fowler could theoretically be useful. How is Chatwood going to be useful? You going to make him a long guy in the bullpen? Or are you just going to release him and eat $25.5 mil? Fowler hit .264/.363/.488 in 2017. You want to say he was shit in 2018 fine. But it was publicly known that him and Mattheny didn't get along. And it is also known he was hurt for large portions of the year.

The point of this talk isn't "fowler is amazing go get him!" The point is the cubs have a bad contract they need to do something with. The Cards likely would move Fowler. Fowler IMO is more useful to the cubs than Chatwood. Maybe you're right and he's just done. But I'd take the chance on him that he goes back to 2017 numbers over just flat out eating $25.5 mil of Chatwoods contract.

The last thing the Cards need to do is add a starter who is a 4 or 5 at best.

 

[chibears55]

Beck, don't you think if a core player was sitting in the Clubhouse on an iPad during a playoff game his name would of been mentioned because Passan wouldnt be the only one to know about it..

Not saying there wasn't someone doing that, maybe someone was on an ipad studying a pitcher or something related to the Rockies or game..
Noone but Passan making a big deal out of it

Also
Happ to me just doesn't seem like the type that would leave the dugout and not care about the game or be there for his mates..
He the damn waffle iron guy..lol

And as far as Theo quote...
You can basically list a few players that hasn't taken that next step or went backwards a bit

Contreras
Russell
Schwarber
Almora
Happ
Quintana
Edwards

I guess if there a silver lining to an early playoff exit, it that now they have time to fully evaluate all their players and map out an offseason plan on how their going to address and fix their roster to be better and stronger going forward..

Im really looking forward to this offseason because i see them making some impact moves that will keep this team in WS contention for the next couple years...

 

[beckdawg]

Beck, don't you think if a core player was sitting in the Clubhouse on an iPad during a playoff game his name would of been mentioned because Passan wouldnt be the only one to know about it..

Is it Passan's place to put someone on blast like that? It's one thing to say there's a culture issue in the club house and point to what you're talking about but it's entirely another to throw a specific person under the bus. As for it being someone looking at film or whatever, that doesn't sound like how it reads to me because he suggested people were pissed off about it. If someone is watching film on a guy for PH sake teammates aren't gonna be pissed.

 

[chibears55]

Is it Passan's place to put someone on blast like that? It's one thing to say there's a culture issue in the club house and point to what you're talking about but it's entirely another to throw a specific person under the bus. As for it being someone looking at film or whatever, that doesn't sound like how it reads to me because he suggested people were pissed off about it. If someone is watching film on a guy for PH sake teammates aren't gonna be pissed.

Ok.. i didn't read his article im just going by what you wrote and unless i missed it, i didn't see a mention of teammates being pissed about it..

If that the case then why not just say who it was and im surprise that wasn't asked about to Theo yesterday

 

[beckdawg]

Ok.. i didn't read his article im just going by what you wrote and unless i missed it, i didn't see a mention of teammates being pissed about it..

If that the case then why not just say who it was and im surprise that wasn't asked about to Theo yesterday

From the quote in my post

They are a team that preaches culture – and still has a player in the middle of a must-win game sitting in the clubhouse and scrolling through an iPad, much to the chagrin of others in the dugout who were living and dying with every pitch.

As for why not say it, like I said it fucks over that guy pretty hard and potentially hurts the team if they were to try and move him. IMO that's pretty poor form for a reporter to do. I mean maybe there's a story there we don't know. Maybe it's someone not happy with the team. It could be any number of reasons but that story isn't the story he is writing. The story he is writing is what happened to the cubs this year. And all we need to know is there were club house issues.

Given the way it's written I'm guessing he got this second hand rather than seeing it himself which could very well be another reason. If he were to give a name in that situation it's bad for numerous reasons. First the person telling him could have an axe to grind. It could also burn a source of info for him if it gets tracked back to that person being the one to let it out of the clubhouse. Plus I mean why would he(Passan) be in the clubhouse to see it himself during a game... that would seem odd to me.

 

[CSF77]

There were players like NL Most Valuable Player Award candidate Javier Baez, who took a big step forward regarding his offense. But Epstein said there were others who are trending in the opposite direction.

Pre---Post BA. Yep kinda tells a tale
Almora .319---.232
Heyward .285---.247
Russell .272---.198
Happ .256---.196
Schwarber .249---.221

Baez .292--..289
Rizzo .246--.329
Zobrist .285--.330
Bryant .280--.252

 

[CSF77]

I think the context was scoring runs in general after the ASG. Getting Murphy did bluster it. Bote was over his head at .219. But in general you really see who was a asset and who was a hindrance and it lead to lower output.

Honestly they could retool LF/CF/RF right now.

Oh Contreras: .279-.200 I'm not making excuses but he played more games than anyone else.... Guess I'm bias.