OT: McNabb "I am a HOF'er"

[modo]

If true to itself, it would.

But it doesn’t. So you must agree that Eli will most likely get in because the actual criteria as opposed to your wishlist.

 

[run and shoot]

Only a lazy mind could think that Donovan McNabb belongs in the HOF because Todd Pinkston was one of his WRs.

Click & Read post #357. And show us where I said "McNabb belongs in the HOF because Todd Pinkston was one of his WRs."

 

[Warrior Spirit]

But it doesn’t. So you must agree that Eli will most likely get in because the actual criteria as opposed to your wishlist.

He will get in cause of the jewelry his team earned him and the last name he got from his daddy.

 

[modo]

He will get in cause of the jewelry his team earned him and the last name he got from his daddy.

Well that took a while.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Well that took a while.

I know, as well as you, how the voting process is convoluted. Wasn't arguing that that same process wouldn't vote him in but rather his HOF worthiness itself. Was he among the best? Absolutely not.

 

[MDB111™]

Top 40 of his era maybe. You'd have to vote half the QBs in the league now into the HOF if you allowed Eli in... just to be fair.

Don't see how I'm blowing awfully hard for McNabb when I've said multiple times I do not think him worthy. In keeping with the OP though, I've expounded on the quantification of it all, same as McNabb, in order to present the best possible argument for him. I don't think his dissing of Aikman will garner him any more support for his cause. Quite the opposite really. But the subject of those in the Hall or those thought of as being deserving was brought up in the OP and I'd agree, all things considered, you'd have to say there's those in there who are no more worthy... and then there's Eli. The HOF should be about the very best, the absolute cream of the crop. Should not be about those with 1 or 2 highlights in their career but rather those who played at a higher level throughout and will be forever remembered as one of the very best of their era.

No, He is currently 7th all time in yards passing and 8th in passing TDS. Thats all time through all eras. He could throw 50 interceptions this season and get in first balot right now.

Also regarding longevity. Is Cal Ripken not the iron man?-- Is longevity not a Hall of Fame worthy attribute for a player like Eli who consistently put up numbers better than most qbs to ever do it? Over 3000 yards passing for over a decade is impressive to me anyway. Also his TD numbers are fantastic. At the end of your career and you can say "I am number 7 and 8 in 2 of the most important individual stats at my position" But you don't think that is HOF worthy?

 

[MDB111™]

I don't wanna turn this into a Rivers thread, but having never been to a SB and with a 5-6 playoff record, why is he a shoo in for the HOF?

Currently 6th ALL TIME in passing TDS
Currently 8th ALL TIME in passing YDS
Will likely pass Dan Marino(also never won a SB) in those categories.

To me, that is first ballot.

 

[MDB111™]

I know, as well as you, how the voting process is convoluted. Wasn't arguing that that same process wouldn't vote him in but rather his HOF worthiness itself. Was he among the best? Absolutely not.

When his career is over? Yes HE WAS AMONG THE BEST to ever do it. A guy who NEVER won a SB in Rivers and also in HIS ERA will also be one of the best to ever do it. Not sure how you don't see stats as a indicator here.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

No, He is currently 7th all time in yards passing and 8th in passing TDS. Thats all time through all eras. He could throw 50 interceptions this season and get in first balot right now.

Also regarding longevity. Is Cal Ripken not the iron man?-- Is longevity not a Hall of Fame worthy attribute for a player like Eli who consistently put up numbers better than most qbs to ever do it? Over 3000 yards passing for over a decade is impressive to me anyway. Also his TD numbers are fantastic. At the end of your career and you can say "I am number 7 and 8 in 2 of the most important individual stats at my position" But you don't think that is HOF worthy?

I don't discount the iron man thing but it doesn't equate to being the best performer either. Cal was an iron man and that's more impressive when speaking of seasons lasting 162 games. Wasn't all he was about either. Think he was an allstar damn near every year and had MVP and Golden Glove awards.

The thing with the longevity high standing in yards and TDs, there's many in this same era around the same and many of those younger who will still surpass him. It's just a product of the evolution of the passing game and change in the rules along the way.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

When his career is over? Yes HE WAS AMONG THE BEST to ever do it. A guy who NEVER won a SB in Rivers and also in HIS ERA will also be one of the best to ever do it. Not sure how you don't see stats as a indicator here.

Rivers has nearly always performed as well as the top performers from year to year. Eli spent half his career being unable to crack the top 20 in rating and only achieved a top 10 status once in 15 years. So throughout their careers, Rivers has been, by far, more consistent and that's what being a great QB is all about. Again, it's not River's fault Eli pussied out of going to the lesser franchise. Rivers did his best with what he was given while the coddled pussy, Eli, went to the better team and still ends up with the much lower win %.

 

[iueyedoc]

On my paper resume, I list my cone drill time under "skills section". That gets me a lot of jobs in the business world.

were those cone drills in college or while a professional. I have heard the pro cones drills are slightly farther apart and the pressure to perform makes that college skill completely nontransferable and irrelevant. Now if you were an assistant to a guy that did pro cone drills, you should be good.

 

[iueyedoc]

I'm still waiting for you to actually tell me what accomplishments put McNabb in the HOF. I think the thread started with "thoughts", and we are still waiting from them from you.

I liked this quote from McNabb..."But people don't realize how hard it is to get to the NFC Championship. And to get there five times, then make it to a Super Bowl? It's tough." So going 1-4 in the NFC Championship is HOF worthy. Got it.

I mean he is the only player famous for blowing chunks from being out of shape in the Super Bowl. He may not be a HOF'er, but there is a small square of his vomit encrusted turf to commemorate the moment in the HOF. So that's something.

 

[MDB111™]

I don't discount the iron man thing but it doesn't equate to being the best performer either. Cal was an iron man and that's more impressive when speaking of seasons lasting 162 games. Wasn't all he was about either. Think he was an allstar damn near every year and had MVP and Golden Glove awards.

The thing with the longevity high standing in yards and TDs, there's many in this same era around the same and many of those younger who will still surpass him. It's just a product of the evolution of the passing game and change in the rules along the way.

Agreed on all above points, especially players that will end up passing Eli. But IMO at the time of retirement and he is top 10 or higher? That is HOF worthy. The same can be said for past players too. I think when Fran Tarkenton retired he was tops. Richard Dent was one of the top sack leaders. Everything changes. And in any given season, Eli is typically not your best QB but he threw up gaudy career numbers.
Also, when you state that "many will surpass him" I don't believe that. Stafford is 20,000 yds behind him. There are a handful of players that have a shot and even more that need that "longevity" to even have a chance. That's why his overall career numbers are great IMO.

 

[MDB111™]

Rivers has nearly always performed as well as the top performers from year to year. Eli spent half his career being unable to crack the top 20 in rating and only achieved a top 10 status once in 15 years. So throughout their careers, Rivers has been, by far, more consistent and that's what being a great QB is all about. Again, it's not River's fault Eli pussied out of going to the lesser franchise. Rivers did his best with what he was given while the coddled pussy, Eli, went to the better team and still ends up with the much lower win %.

And yet Eli is 1000 yards passing AHEAD of Rivers and has 2 pieces of Jewree that his "team won him" lol. That shows you how awesome Rivers is because his 1st 2 seasons, he threw only 30 passes! I would argue that Rivers is the best of the big 3 from that draft(Eli, Phillip, Big Ben) and it's a shame if he never gets a ring. But all 3 of them are HOF qbs and their story is intertwined. 2004 draft was bonkers.

 

[iueyedoc]

He will get in cause of the jewelry his team earned him and the last name he got from his daddy.

You mean in those games where he was deemed the most valuable player of the 106 playing in it twice? Only one of 5 players in the history of the NFL to have done so.

 

[run and shoot]

I don't wanna turn this into a Rivers thread, but having never been to a SB and with a 5-6 playoff record, why is he a shoo in for the HOF?

In your own opinion, disregarding SB rings, who is the better QB between Eli and Rivers?

I'm not a fan of either but......
I guess I would begrudgingly lean toward Rivers.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You mean in those games where he was deemed the most valuable player of the 106 playing in it twice? Only one of 5 players in the history of the NFL to have done so.

Defense wins championships and the QB gets all the credit.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Whoa ur getting all this mixed up. Both these HC's employed the
high-powered "Run & Shoot" offense. You might wanna google
Glanville( yeah he was nutty at times) and Pardee NFL. Also see what Jim Kelly did under Pardee's R&S offense in the USFL.

Moon's 1st three years under Glanville was spent in Glanville's antiquated split back offense, which resulted in 3 last place finishes and offensive rankings of 27, 25, 23. Glanville was so behind the times that one year he spent the #3 overall draft pick on a fullback. So Moon spent his athletic prime (28-30) stuck in arguably the worst offense in the NFL.

In a desperate effort to save his job, Glanville finally turned the offense over to June Jones. The offense got better, but Glanville still remained a dolt and was fired after somehow losing at home to a terrible Steelers team in the playoffs (Moon, 327 yards, 2 TDs...Bubby Brister 128 yards, 0 TDs).

LOL at Pardee. His benching of Moon for Cody Carlson in 93 led to Moon demanding a trade and leaving the team. Without Moon, the Oilers went from 12-4 to 2-14 (not as impressive as the Eagles offense getting better without McNabb, but similar to the Colts going 2-14 without Manning). It cost Pardee his job in 94, while Moon was going to the Pro Bowl with the Vikings. Sad.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

If the Eagles win that SB game in which McNabb lost his lunch, would you deem him as being more worthy of HOF consideration?

I guess "more worthy", but I think winning "just" one NFL title is not a strong HOF argument. Lots of QBs won a title. I think if McNabb won that SB, he still wouldn't get in to the HOF. JMO. I think its different for a guy like Rivers...if he wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. Its like the cherry on top. With McNabb, that SB win is about the only thing you could point to on his resume and say "HOF worthy".

Hope that made sense.

 

[bamainatlanta]

I guess "more worthy", but I think winning "just" one NFL title is not a strong HOF argument. Lots of QBs won a title. I think if McNabb won that SB, he still wouldn't get in to the HOF. JMO. I think its different for a guy like Rivers...if he wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. Its like the cherry on top. With McNabb, that SB win is about the only thing you could point to on his resume and say "HOF worthy".

Hope that made sense.

If simply winning a SB was worthy of the HOF or being talked about, Brad Johnson would be brought up.