OT: McNabb "I am a HOF'er"

[Rory Sparrow]

If simply winning a SB was worthy of the HOF or being talked about, Brad Johnson would be brought up.

One other anti-McNabb tidbit...when McNabb and the Eagles were making NFC Championship games, that period in time was the weakest the NFC has ever been. They would get destroyed by the AFC in interconference play. The AFC won 6 of 7 Super Bowls, with Tampa's win over Oakland (Bill Callahan, LOL) being the lone NFC win. I recall that in 2004 when the Eagles made the SB, the NFC won something like only 20% of their games against the AFC, the lowest percentage by either conference in NFL history.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I guess "more worthy", but I think winning "just" one NFL title is not a strong HOF argument. Lots of QBs won a title. I think if McNabb won that SB, he still wouldn't get in to the HOF. JMO. I think its different for a guy like Rivers...if he wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. Its like the cherry on top. With McNabb, that SB win is about the only thing you could point to on his resume and say "HOF worthy".

Hope that made sense.

Do you think Eli worthy of HOF? Not about if you think he will be voted in, just do you think him worthy?

If simply winning a SB was worthy of the HOF or being talked about, Brad Johnson would be brought up.

Been so many "lesser" QBs to not only win SBs but get SB MVP, you'd think that would give you meatballs pause when elevating a shit QB like Eli for the 2 highlights of his career.

One other anti-McNabb tidbit...when McNabb and the Eagles were making NFC Championship games, that period in time was the weakest the NFC has ever been. They would get destroyed by the AFC in interconference play. The AFC won 6 of 7 Super Bowls, with Tampa's win over Oakland (Bill Callahan, LOL) being the lone NFC win. I recall that in 2004 when the Eagles made the SB, the NFC won something like only 20% of their games against the AFC, the lowest percentage by either conference in NFL history.

The AFC wasn't that dominant in the whole period from 2000 through 2004 when Eagles had their 5 year consecutive playoff run with McNabb. Those first 2 years were 50/50. AFC took a small lead in '02 and '03, winning 53% and 54% respectively. It was the final year of their consecutive playoff run in which the Eagles went to the SB that the AFC had a big lead, winning 69%.

 

[run and shoot]

Moon's 1st three years under Glanville was spent in Glanville's antiquated split back offense, which resulted in 3 last place finishes and offensive rankings of 27, 25, 23. Glanville was so behind the times that one year he spent the #3 overall draft pick on a fullback. So Moon spent his athletic prime (28-30) stuck in arguably the worst offense in the NFL.

In a desperate effort to save his job, Glanville finally turned the offense over to June Jones. The offense got better, but Glanville still remained a dolt and was fired after somehow losing at home to a terrible Steelers team in the playoffs (Moon, 327 yards, 2 TDs...Bubby Brister 128 yards, 0 TDs).

LOL at Pardee. His benching of Moon for Cody Carlson in 93 led to Moon demanding a trade and leaving the team. Without Moon, the Oilers went from 12-4 to 2-14 (not as impressive as the Eagles offense getting better without McNabb, but similar to the Colts going 2-14 without Manning). It cost Pardee his job in 94, while Moon was going to the Pro Bowl with the Vikings. Sad.

Glanville turned the Oilers, a team that had struggled through most of the 1980s, into an aggressive, hard-hitting group that preached a "hit the beach" mentality and he made players, such as future Hall of Fame QB Warren Moon into household names. The Oilers made three playoff appearances during Glanville's tenure (which happened to be during the last three seasons of his tenure), twice playing in the AFC divisional round.
-Wikipedia

There was good and bad in Houston between the era of Glanville & Pardee, but Moon put up some of his best #'s during this period.

 

[run and shoot]

Do you think Eli worthy of HOF? Not about if you think he will be voted in, just do you think him worthy?
Been so many "lesser" QBs to not only win SBs but get SB MVP, you'd think that would give you meatballs pause when elevating a shit QB like Eli for the 2 highlights of his career.
The AFC wasn't that dominant in the whole period from 2000 through 2004 when Eagles had their 5 year consecutive playoff run with McNabb. Those first 2 years were 50/50. AFC took a small lead in '02 and '03, winning 53% and 54% respectively. It was the final year of their consecutive playoff run in which the Eagles went to the SB that the AFC had a big lead, winning 69%.

No matter what u say or try to discuss it's going to be met with.....

One other anti-McNabb tidbit.....

"anti-McNabb "

 

[run and shoot]

If the Eagles win that SB game in which McNabb lost his lunch, would you deem him as being more worthy of HOF consideration?

I guess "more worthy", but I think winning "just" one NFL title is not a strong HOF argument. Lots of QBs won a title. I think if McNabb won that SB, he still wouldn't get in to the HOF. JMO.


I think its different for a guy like Rivers...if he wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. Its like the cherry on top. With McNabb, that SB win is about the only thing you could point to on his resume and say "HOF worthy".

Hope that made sense.

Lets see....Currently Rivers has (4 str8 playoff appearances) but a 5-6 playoff record. No SB appearance.

McNabb has 5str8 playoff appearances with a 9-7 playoff record (while surrounded by mostly mediocre players). And a SB appearance.

However, per Rory.......
"..if he ( Rivers) wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. "
?

 

[MDB111™]

Lets see....Currently Rivers has (4 str8 playoff appearances) but a 5-6 playoff record. No SB appearance.

McNabb has 5str8 playoff appearances with a 9-7 playoff record (while surrounded by mostly mediocre players). And a SB appearance.

However, per Rory.......
"..if he ( Rivers) wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. "
?

And Carson Palmer finished with almost 10000 more yards passing so he must be a HOFer too right?

FYI Rivers is like 20000 yards past McNabb and still adding to it.

 

[run and shoot]

And Carson Palmer finished with almost 10000 more yards passing so he must be a HOFer too right?

FYI Rivers is like 20000 yards past McNabb and still adding to it.

Well between me & u, I woulda' benched Palmer. End of the day he didn't win enuff. He was 0-2 in playoffs w/Cincy and 1-1 in Ariz.
Rivers yardage shouldn't be a factor in getting to the HOF. If yardage is the "qualifier" then Aikman shouldn't be a HOF'er.
I give credit where it's due, so I encourage u to go back and read some of the posts Spartan's made on the critera for the HOF

 

[bamainatlanta]

Well between me & u, I woulda' benched Palmer. End of the day he didn't win enuff. He was 0-2 in playoffs w/Cincy and 1-1 in Ariz.
Rivers yardage shouldn't be a factor in getting to the HOF. If yardage is the "qualifier" then Aikman shouldn't be a HOF'er.
I give credit where it's due, so I encourage u to go back and read some of the posts Spartan's made on the critera for the HOF

Yes, let's forget Aikman's postseason success.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

And Carson Palmer finished with almost 10000 more yards passing so he must be a HOFer too right?

FYI Rivers is like 20000 yards past McNabb and still adding to it.

Yes, let's forget Aikman's postseason success.

I have no qualms with Aikman being in the HOF. Understandable his numbers may not be as high or as good as others nor his career as long. He had to do it the hard way and take a beating while that team was built around him. Yes, there was future HOF talent around him but nobody could question the warrior spirit within him.

 

[MDB111™]

Well between me & u, I woulda' benched Palmer. End of the day he didn't win enuff. He was 0-2 in playoffs w/Cincy and 1-1 in Ariz.
Rivers yardage shouldn't be a factor in getting to the HOF. If yardage is the "qualifier" then Aikman shouldn't be a HOF'er.
I give credit where it's due, so I encourage u to go back and read some of the posts Spartan's made on the critera for the HOF

My point is that Palmer is nowhere close to a HOFer and yet he is 10000 yards passing AHEAD of McNabb, 60 TDS AHEAD of McNabb! He had a better career than McNabb on a much shittier team. And yet, he is not going to the HOF.

 

[MDB111™]

I have no qualms with Aikman being in the HOF. Understandable his numbers may not be as high or as good as others nor his career as long. He had to do it the hard way and take a beating while that team was built around him. Yes, there was future HOF talent around him but nobody could question the warrior spirit within him.

You subtract Aikmans SBs and that guys very best season was 23 TDS and 14 pickles. His numbers are dookie.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You subtract Aikmans SBs and that guys very best season was 23 TDS and 14 pickles. His numbers are dookie.

They were dookie which is why McNabb singled him out. Those 3 SB runs saw him put up incredible numbers in those post seasons though. Of course it was all accomplished with the top Defense, best RB in the league, Top WR and top TE as well. Just in the right place at the right time. Holder of the key position in Jimmy Johnson's perfect storm.

 

[run and shoot]

They were dookie which is why McNabb singled him out. Those 3 SB runs saw him put up incredible numbers in those post seasons though. Of course it was all accomplished with the top Defense, best RB in the league, Top WR and top TE as well. Just in the right place at the right time. Holder of the key position in Jimmy Johnson's perfect storm.

So we're back to Aikman benefiting from and being surrounded by HOF talent. With that said, I don't necessarily have a problem with him being in the Hall.

My point is that Palmer is nowhere close to a HOFer and yet he is 10000 yards passing AHEAD of McNabb, 60 TDS AHEAD of McNabb! He had a better career than McNabb on a much shittier team. And yet, he is not going to the HOF.

Keep in mind, Palmer had a little known wr named Chad "ocho cinco"Johnson helping him get those stats for most of his career.

Also........
When ya talk Palmer's "better career".......shouldn't we look at his post season performance as a part of the quotient ( i.e. w-l record, playoffs, SB)?

 

[MDB111™]

So we're back to Aikman benefiting from and being surrounded by HOF talent. With that said, I don't necessarily have a problem with him being in the Hall.



Keep in mind, Palmer had a little known wr named Chad "ocho cinco"Johnson helping him get those stats for most of his career.

Also........
When ya talk Palmer's "better career".......shouldn't we look at his post season performance as a part of the quotient ( i.e. w-l record, playoffs, SB)?

Not really. IMO, If I think both Palmer and McNabb are not going to the HOF, I am simply looking at their final career stats.
McNabb could argue he went to more playoff games and Palmer could argue he threw up better numbers. And at the end of the day, they'd both be circle jerking like we are in here about their careers that are not HOF worthy...
IMO of course. I just don't think they are worthy.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Not really. IMO, If I think both Palmer and McNabb are not going to the HOF, I am simply looking at their final career stats.
McNabb could argue he went to more playoff games and Palmer could argue he threw up better numbers. And at the end of the day, they'd both be circle jerking like we are in here about their careers that are not HOF worthy...
IMO of course. I just don't think they are worthy.

I would say McNabb was easily better than Palmer. In his 11 years with Philly they made the playoffs 8 times. In Palmer's 7 with Bengals, they went only twice. Nothing in Oakland for 2 years. And the 1 playoffs in Arizona in which he actually played. Also got his 1 and only playoff win with Arizona. Their ratings about the same but McNabb with the far better TD to INT ratio and a record of 98-62-1 vs Palmer's 92-88-1. McNabb also had about 3,000 more rushing yards. Being a dual threat made him more of a difference maker.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Do you think Eli worthy of HOF? Not about if you think he will be voted in, just do you think him worthy?

I don't think he is worthy. He's a step above Jim Plunkett because he didn't get as beat up in the 1st half of his career and was able to play a long time, but I've never thought of him as being a dangerous QB...like "we gotta stop Eli Manning if we want to win the game". I think Eli Manning might be one of those Tim Raines/SABR HOF guys...someone who no one considered a HOFer when they played, then some accountant adds up their numbers after they retire and we're told "this guy is a HOFer".

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Lets see....Currently Rivers has (4 str8 playoff appearances) but a 5-6 playoff record. No SB appearance.

McNabb has 5str8 playoff appearances with a 9-7 playoff record (while surrounded by mostly mediocre players). And a SB appearance.

However, per Rory.......
"..if he ( Rivers) wins the SB next year, I think that clinches his spot in the HOF, because the rest of his resume is already complete. "
?

The funny thing is that Rivers' lack of postseason success is the glaring hole in his career...yet its not all that different than McNabb's, and you are using McNabb's postseason performance as the REASON for McNabb being a HOFer. Completely absurd.

And do you doubt that if Rivers win the Super Bowl this year, he won't be in the HOF? Come on.

 

[modo]

If I had my druthers it would take more than what Eli has for the HoF. But that’s not the HoF works.

 

[run and shoot]

The funny thing is that Rivers' lack of postseason success is the glaring hole in his career...yet its not all that different than McNabb's, and you are using McNabb's postseason performance as the REASON for McNabb being a HOFer. Completely absurd.

And do you doubt that if Rivers win the Super Bowl this year, he won't be in the HOF? Come on.

Right now it seems Rivers is lacking something when it comes to post season play ( note his record). The criteria for HOF is nebulous, IMO. As Spartan said it should be the "cream of the crop". Does Rivers fit this?

....and you are using McNabb's postseason performance as the REASON for McNabb being a HOFer.

Show me where I said the above. Provide the exact quote.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

As Spatan said it should be the "cream of the crop". Does Rivers fit this?

Big fan of Spaten (Optimator), and yes, Rivers is the cream of the crop. I think he is better than several QBs currently in the HOF (Moon, Dawson, Fouts, Blanda, Griese, Bradshaw, Aikman, Namath, possibly more). 13 years as a starter, never missed a game, not much around him but consistently produces at high level. What more do you need to see of Rivers?