OT:What if?

[SilenceS]

What if Grant Hill never got hurt? Where do you think he would have finished in the all time greats? Another "Open Court", they all talked about how Grant was the heir apparent to Jordan. The league was going to put him as the face of the NBA. We all know what happened after he left Detroit, but what if those injuries dont happen? The man just filled the stat sheets.

 

[Scoot26]

What if Grant Hill never got hurt? Where do you think he would have finished in the all time greats? Another "Open Court", they all talked about how Grant was the heir apparent to Jordan. The league was going to put him as the face of the NBA. We all know what happened after he left Detroit, but what if those injuries dont happen? The man just filled the stat sheets.

Don't think he ever becomes Jordan, but we see a lot of Orlando vs LA finals. TMac doesn't have the stigma of always losing in the 1st round and likely gets to join the top Superstar club. Unless he becomes a drama queen and can't play with Hill. An unknown there. But if everything meshes between the two stars, Orlando could become a dynasty.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Grant Hill and TMac would go down as one of the better duos of our time. How far they get is still a question mark though. TMac likely doesn't get that bad rap like Scoot said.

Grant Hill was a beast...probably never Jordan level good but could've been one of the faces of the league going into the 2000s

 

[Scoot26]

Grant Hill and TMac would go down as one of the better duos of our time. How far they get is still a question mark though. TMac likely doesn't get that bad rap like Scoot said.

Grant Hill was a beast...probably never Jordan level good but could've been one of the faces of the league going into the 2000s

Given the east lacked any two superstar teams in the 2000s until the 08 Celtics, I don't think there's any question they make multiple finals. Maybe the Nets could beat them, and the Pistons defense could shut them down, but I don't see AI ever going to the Finals though.

Pacers maybe still go to the finals in 2000 given it is an adjustment year in Orlando, but I think in 01 and 02 they'd definitely get in.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Given the east lacked any two superstar teams in the 2000s until the 08 Celtics, I don't think there's any question they make multiple finals. Maybe the Nets could beat them, and the Pistons defense could shut them down, but I don't see AI ever going to the Finals though.

Pacers maybe still go to the finals in 2000 given it is an adjustment year in Orlando, but I think in 01 and 02 they'd definitely get in.

Fair point. AI dragged a relatively trash Sixer team to the finals by himself. Reasonable to say that Hill and TMac would've edged them out. Nets had 3 stars, but probably you only consider Kidd a superstar. That's probably the obstacle to get past for 02 and 03. Pistons they might've struggled with just based on the overall depth and such that they had.

Again hard to say because who knows how they tool that Magic team with a healthy Grant Hill...and how well do they do it?

 

[SilenceS]

Crazy to think Hill and Penny getting hurt changed the whole league. Both really changed the game with their athleticism as a point forward. Penny was never the same after the knee, but people forget him and Kidd playing in Phoenix. That could have been really good.

 

[FirstTimer]

Hill never becomes Jordan, just different players...and there is only one MJ. Hill was a guy who could carry a league though. "All Good Guy Team". I think he'd be seen similarly by the media and fans to the way Steph Curry is seen. Hill wasn't as flashy but I mean more from the perspective of the general view of his character, approach-ability, etc.

Those Magic teams from 01-whenever they break up or the Celtic form up are likely making a lot of Finals out of the weaker EC. Would have been interesting to see who else joined up with them had they stayed healthy and dominant.

 

[anotheridiot]

You bring up interesting points. The crown was passed from DrJ, to Bird, to Magic, to Michael. Kareem was in their a beat, Olajawon, but after Michael, it was always wondering who was going to get the crown, not who just deserved it. I put Kobe into that mix with his MJ impersonation.

That was the golden age of basketball. Now they are just multi millionaires, half billionaires who get paid more to wear shoes than play the game. Will it take 5 years for Zion to rip the crown from LeBron?

 

[Raskolnikov]

A similar example of a player in the HIll/McGrady/Penny line is Zach Lavine.

The problem with saying "what if" they never got hurt...is I think it minimized how gifted Jordan was and reduces the difference between these guys to court luck. Jordan never got hurt like those 3 because he had the gift of durability. Because he trained better/harder. Because he was so athletic he controlled his body better and avoided crashing with his strength.

Those guys can't be Jordan because they didn't have Jordan's muscle mass or strength...their bodies simply could not hold up to 82 game rigors. It simply could not fly through the air wrecklessly over and over and be ok at the end of each landing.

They aren't that guy. They don't look like that guy. They aren't built like that guy. It didn't happen not by accident but because it was never going to happen for any of them. Their bodies were going to break down one way or another because they simply were not as sturdy as Jordan.

Now you might see them play and say...oh shit that guy is long, or oh shit that guy is fast...oh shit they can fly...because they had a great advantage in length/bone-density to muscle ratio/ etc...

but that is the catch 22 of body proportions. The same traits that make them gifted make them weak. To get it all in a combination like Westbrook or Jordan or even Iverson that can also take massive physical abuse and shake it off over and over and over and keep going...

Those guys are simply put together a little better and all you have to do to see it is line them up and have a look. You will see Hill/Penny/Lavine are all much thinner than Jordan. McGrady to a lesser extent...in terms of NBA...McGrady is the one I would say could have had better luck...but those other 3 will be repeat offenders in the body break department over and over no matter how many situations you would have tried, imo.

 

[SilenceS]

A similar example of a player in the HIll/McGrady/Penny line is Zach Lavine.

The problem with saying "what if" they never got hurt...is I think it minimized how gifted Jordan was and reduces the difference between these guys to court luck. Jordan never got hurt like those 3 because he had the gift of durability. Because he trained better/harder. Because he was so athletic he controlled his body better and avoided crashing with his strength.

Those guys can't be Jordan because they didn't have Jordan's muscle mass or strength...their bodies simply could not hold up to 82 game rigors. It simply could not fly through the air wrecklessly over and over and be ok at the end of each landing.

They aren't that guy. They don't look like that guy. They aren't built like that guy. It didn't happen not by accident but because it was never going to happen for any of them. Their bodies were going to break down one way or another because they simply were not as sturdy as Jordan.

Now you might see them play and say...oh shit that guy is long, or oh shit that guy is fast...oh shit they can fly...because they had a great advantage in length/bone-density to muscle ratio/ etc...

but that is the catch 22 of body proportions. The same traits that make them gifted make them weak. To get it all in a combination like Westbrook or Jordan or even Iverson that can also take massive physical abuse and shake it off over and over and over and keep going...

Those guys are simply put together a little better and all you have to do to see it is line them up and have a look. You will see Hill/Penny/Lavine are all much thinner than Jordan. McGrady to a lesser extent...in terms of NBA...McGrady is the one I would say could have had better luck...but those other 3 will be repeat offenders in the body break department over and over no matter how many situations you would have tried, imo.

Lavine name should never be talked about in the same air as any of the guys you mentionesd

 

[Crystallas]

What if Joe Smith was actually worthy of that #1 selection.

 

[SilenceS]

What if Joe Smith was actually worthy of that #1 selection.

What if the Blazers didnt have Clyde Drexler?

 

[Crystallas]

What if the Blazers didnt have Clyde Drexler?

Does Rask pause a few seconds every time someone says Blazers, just to be sure it's about basketball?

 

[Raskolnikov]

Does Rask pause a few seconds every time someone says Blazers, just to be sure it's about basketball?

There was a time the Blazers themselves weren't sure it was about basketball. They were the first athletes to try to do that in a white neighborhood I guess, was probably alot of it.

 

[BNB]

I think we saw a healthy Grant Hill long enough to know that he never would have been in the conversation with MJ.

I think in the NBA, maybe more than any other sport, one player can make a huge difference. Maybe you won't win a title with just that player, but he'll keep you in contention for the most part.

In Grant Hill's first 7 seasons with the Pistons, they missed the playoffs 3 times and never got past the 1st round.

I think he could have made more noise with Tmac and that Magic team.... and could have been considered a top 20-25 player all-time.

 

[SilenceS]

I think we saw a healthy Grant Hill long enough to know that he never would have been in the conversation with MJ.

I think in the NBA, maybe more than any other sport, one player can make a huge difference. Maybe you won't win a title with just that player, but he'll keep you in contention for the most part.

In Grant Hill's first 7 seasons with the Pistons, they missed the playoffs 3 times and never got past the 1st round.

I think he could have made more noise with Tmac and that Magic team.... and could have been considered a top 20-25 player all-time.

Did you ever look at those Grant Hill teams? He was the team. No one said he would be MJ in the GOAT aspect but the league was focusing on making him the face. This is coming from Barkley, Isahi, Shaq and others. Grant Hill was a baller that was putting up Lebron type numbers.

Not ripping on ya, just my peace on him. I remember idolizing Hill play and his shoes. Then, I became a monster AI fan. Its funny to see how much you really liked players when you were a child.

I am from New Orleans and we had no team. So, I never followed a team I followed players. Thinking about it. I was a huge Supersonics fan because GP and Kemp were insanely fun to watch. That sounds contradictive but it was because I enjoyed them. I was a big Magic fan because of Shaq and Penny then I remember hating Shaq cause he went to the Lakers. I had to be like 11 and I was so angry.

I also remember not liking Magic so maybe it was just a Lakers thing. lol I have never been a fan of them.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

The crown was passed from DrJ, to Bird, to Magic, to Michael. Kareem was in their a beat, Olajawon, but after Michael, it was always wondering who was going to get the crown, not who just deserved it. I put Kobe into that mix with his MJ impersonation.

When did Dr J. have the crown? When his teams would always get upset in the postseason? The only time he won in the Finals was because Moses Malone was the alpha dog and the Lakers were injured. Kareem was in there "a beat"? So, like the decade of the 70's?

 

[Rory Sparrow]

What if Joe Smith was actually worthy of that #1 selection.

I was watching some random "Run TMC" retrospective...I remembered Mitch Richmond being traded to Sacramento and being stunned, but I forgot how immediately that Golden State team went from 'lovable' with TMC, Manute Bol, Paul Mokeski, Sarunas M., etc....to perhaps the most unlikable group in NBA history...Rony Seikley, Billy Owens, Joe Smith, etc.

 

[Scoot26]

@SilenceS, LeBron was always the better player. Not even close.

 

[SilenceS]

@SilenceS, LeBron was always the better player. Not even close.

What? I didnt say Lebron wasnt better. I said Lebron type numbers. Grant Hill was extremely efficient. Lebron average more FGA a game ast his lowest than Grant did at his highest.

Until his injury, he was putting up lines in the same way Lebron was putting up lines.

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