Replacement GM and Coach

blackpep72

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I mostly agree, but I'd rather not have it take the whole season. Replace JC and leave MC as interim, then fire Stan and let his replacement pick the new coach (hopefully both are Hunters).

I think it makes sense to let the new GM hire the new coach.
For several resons:

The main ones being he will get a coach that shares his ideas
And he will have no one to blame if it fails.
 

Raskolnikov

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How do you Know Kane is angry?

I don't know...

maybe the extreme angry screams releasing his internal pressure every time he finally scores after playing 40+ minutes of frustrating hockey style he isn't used to at the behest of some pretty 35 year old with perfect hair.

I've never seen Kane or Toews this frustrated before. (except that one time Toews trained in MMA all off-season and came out trying to fight everyone in place of the downed Bickell)
 

Granada

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This is a very dangerous time.

With Kane angry it forces deciding what the problems are upstairs with reputations on the line...

I have a fear we will do something really stupid like bite on an offer from Buffalo for Kane. Or ship Toews and Crow to Montreal.

Then JC and SB can find out how brilliant their system is without these lifetime "hockey hacks."

But heh, we are at the forefront of statistical analysis. So...

Your post brings up a good topic: who would you be okay with trading from the core, if anyone? It's a shitty question in the sense that you wish all these guys can retire as Hawks, but generally speaking, that's rarely ever the case. The quick answer of course will be Seabs (if it's even possible to move that contract) and 2nd will probably be Keith to jettison, but would you move Toews and Kane in the immediate future?

Crawford -- I like the guy and always have -- but his days as a Hawk should be done in my view. Hell, his playing career in my view should be done, considering his injury history and the fact he's already won 2 stanley cups and the guy's in his mid-thirties, with a family. Why risk it and play more? I can see him retiring after this year.

I don't see any of the core being signed once their current contracts are up; including Crawford, who is in his last year. So even though it would suck, I would be open to actually trading all of them at some point. Crow walks, unless you trade him at the deadline to a contender (assuming he wants one more kick at a Cup and the Hawks are out of the hunt by then).
 

vadarx

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Your post brings up a good topic: who would you be okay with trading from the core, if anyone? It's a shitty question in the sense that you wish all these guys can retire as Hawks, but generally speaking, that's rarely ever the case. The quick answer of course will be Seabs (if it's even possible to move that contract) and 2nd will probably be Keith to jettison, but would you move Toews and Kane in the immediate future?

Crawford -- I like the guy and always have -- but his days as a Hawk should be done in my view. Hell, his playing career in my view should be done, considering his injury history and the fact he's already won 2 stanley cups and the guy's in his mid-thirties, with a family. Why risk it and play more? I can see him retiring after this year.

I don't see any of the core being signed once their current contracts are up; including Crawford, who is in his last year. So even though it would suck, I would be open to actually trading all of them at some point. Crow walks, unless you trade him at the deadline to a contender (assuming he wants one more kick at a Cup and the Hawks are out of the hunt by then).
the only one that would be worth anything in return beyond cap space would be Kaner and I don't see that happening.
I think personally that 19 and 88 will actually re-sign with the 'hawks when their deals are done. hopefully at a reasonable rate. 2 and 50 will retire when their's are up me thinks. 7.... well I dunno what is going to happen with him. I kinda think he retires early and the difference in money lost is supplemented by a job within the organization.
 

Raskolnikov

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Your post brings up a good topic: who would you be okay with trading from the core, if anyone? It's a shitty question in the sense that you wish all these guys can retire as Hawks, but generally speaking, that's rarely ever the case. The quick answer of course will be Seabs (if it's even possible to move that contract) and 2nd will probably be Keith to jettison, but would you move Toews and Kane in the immediate future?

Crawford -- I like the guy and always have -- but his days as a Hawk should be done in my view. Hell, his playing career in my view should be done, considering his injury history and the fact he's already won 2 stanley cups and the guy's in his mid-thirties, with a family. Why risk it and play more? I can see him retiring after this year.

I don't see any of the core being signed once their current contracts are up; including Crawford, who is in his last year. So even though it would suck, I would be open to actually trading all of them at some point. Crow walks, unless you trade him at the deadline to a contender (assuming he wants one more kick at a Cup and the Hawks are out of the hunt by then).

If you made me choose it would be Crow just because of age, concussions, and the chance to sign Lehner for a few year stretch and keep this thing going.

I like having them both and think it will eventually start to pay off with point streaks later this season. But the temptation to clear 5,000,000 and the value to grab a top 6 wing is there and desired...a deadline deal wouldn't surprise me at all given the Hawks goalie depth both in Rockford and potentially overseas to come over next year, where you might want to look at the guys in rockford before Nalimov arrives?

Anyway...

I will still argue that Toews, Seabs, and Keith still do invaluable things for this club that nobody else has the skill set or physical traits to replace.

The game Seabs sat we lost to a shitty team in a shitty rut, didn't move ANYBODY out of the crease..etc.

He is still an important physical element on this team. Just the threat of getting him mad and his presences as a 6'5" 260 lb man offers a fair degree of protection many guys on this team need around.

That time he got mad and nearly killed Backes really altered his career and effectiveness. He never seemed the same once he calmed down and played under control(the shitty thing is the Blues deserved those hits that were cumulative retaliation...if Seabs didn't do it that feud might have ended with one of our own in the hospital getting condolences instead, that was a situation where Seabs was forced into it being the biggesst and baddest man on a club under repeated assaults, but a talk with the commissioner, reigns by the Hawks, Backes injuries...the fines...SOMETHING changed his aggressiveness after that and finding himself in multiple offender protocol)
 
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Granada

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^^Good posts. Though I will say that, I would not want to re-sign Toews and Kane after their contracts are up, but that's just me, especially Toews. I hate saying that, but it's true. They'll be 34/35 years old; and your best bet is to sell while their value is high. I guess it depends on what happens in the next two years (i.e. if they fail to make the playoffs). I would be fine keeping them until the 2021 off-season, but if the team is still on a downward trajectory (like they are now), you have to make some tough decisions and move some of these guys while they have some value left.

Of course, I would love it if Bowman (first and foremost) is fired immediately, and we could get a new GM who could actually compliment the core with the right type of players. But I feel like the org. will stand behind Bowman; they already did when they canned a hall-of-fame coach.
 

blackpep72

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the only one that would be worth anything in return beyond cap space would be Kaner and I don't see that happening.
I think personally that 19 and 88 will actually re-sign with the 'hawks when their deals are done. hopefully at a reasonable rate. 2 and 50 will retire when their's are up me thinks. 7.... well I dunno what is going to happen with him. I kinda think he retires early and the difference in money lost is supplemented by a job within the organization.

I hope 19 and 88 will stay and be blackhawks for life.

The interesting part will be what salary they will get. Based on their play 88 should get paid more than 19.

How will that sit with the captain ?
 

blackpep72

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^^Good posts. Though I will say that, I would not want to re-sign Toews and Kane after their contracts are up, but that's just me, especially Toews. I hate saying that, but it's true. They'll be 34/35 years old; and your best bet is to sell while their value is high. I guess it depends on what happens in the next two years (i.e. if they fail to make the playoffs). I would be fine keeping them until the 2021 off-season, but if the team is still on a downward trajectory (like they are now), you have to make some tough decisions and move some of these guys while they have some value left.

Of course, I would love it if Bowman (first and foremost) is fired immediately, and we could get a new GM who could actually compliment the core with the right type of players. But I feel like the org. will stand behind Bowman; they already did when they canned a hall-of-fame coach.

I would like to have them both re-sign. Now if it end up being a numbers game I would go for 88 hands down.

I dont know what has happened to Toews but he is not the same player as he used to be but Kane to me is still showtime.
 

Granada

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I would like to have them both re-sign. Now if it end up being a numbers game I would go for 88 hands down.

I dont know what has happened to Toews but he is not the same player as he used to be but Kane to me is still showtime.

I get it, but I guess I'm in the minority. I love these guys as much as anybody, but at the end of the day, you have to do what's best for the team -- and re-signing two guys in their mid-thirties; one of which is already in somewhat of a decline -- is antithetical to what's best.

Even if they do go play somewhere the last few years of their careers, these guys will always be Blackhawks for life; there is zero question about that.
 

anotheridiot

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I would like to have them both re-sign. Now if it end up being a numbers game I would go for 88 hands down.

I dont know what has happened to Toews but he is not the same player as he used to be but Kane to me is still showtime.
but 88 would still get12 million, where Toews is gonna have to take 7 or 8, and I doubt that is gonna happen
 

vadarx

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^^Good posts. Though I will say that, I would not want to re-sign Toews and Kane after their contracts are up, but that's just me, especially Toews. I hate saying that, but it's true. They'll be 34/35 years old; and your best bet is to sell while their value is high. I guess it depends on what happens in the next two years (i.e. if they fail to make the playoffs). I would be fine keeping them until the 2021 off-season, but if the team is still on a downward trajectory (like they are now), you have to make some tough decisions and move some of these guys while they have some value left.

Of course, I would love it if Bowman (first and foremost) is fired immediately, and we could get a new GM who could actually compliment the core with the right type of players. But I feel like the org. will stand behind Bowman; they already did when they canned a hall-of-fame coach.

but they wouldn't be selling at all, they would just be letting them go to another team.

still almost 4 full seasons before this happens. Toews will obviously command less than what he makes now by a decent margin. Kane might still want what he makes now, provided he is still playing at an elite level. the cap will also have increased by then as well. I have no problem with keeping them both for a few seasons at a lesser rate so they can retire as Blackhawks and only Blackhawks.

of course, this will depend on them wanting to remain in Chicago and also with at least Toews taking a lesser salary. still a ways away though, who knows what happens between now and then....
 

vadarx

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but 88 would still get12 million, where Toews is gonna have to take 7 or 8, and I doubt that is gonna happen
why would you doubt it? do you think in 4 years he is going to command 10 plus a season? I kinda doubt it. he is self aware enough that he should know he won't be able to ask for that, unless he really starts producing more and in that case I would imagine the team will want to keep him around at any cost. same with Kaner.

as far as them not making the same amount, I have a hard time believing that will make any bit of difference to either of them.
 

blackpep72

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but 88 would still get12 million, where Toews is gonna have to take 7 or 8, and I doubt that is gonna happen

I doubt Kane would get 12 million. Maybe the first year but not as an average for say a 3 year contract.
 

MassHavoc

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Give kane a Hosea deal. Can't wait to see him take over for JR on TV too.
 

Granada

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but they wouldn't be selling at all, they would just be letting them go to another team.

still almost 4 full seasons before this happens. Toews will obviously command less than what he makes now by a decent margin. Kane might still want what he makes now, provided he is still playing at an elite level. the cap will also have increased by then as well. I have no problem with keeping them both for a few seasons at a lesser rate so they can retire as Blackhawks and only Blackhawks.

of course, this will depend on them wanting to remain in Chicago and also with at least Toews taking a lesser salary. still a ways away though, who knows what happens between now and then....

Not necessarily, if they were moved at the trade deadline to a contender.

Also, he won't want 10 million again, obviously, but I noticed you used the term "decent margin." What would that be? Would you re-sign Toews at half his current salary after this contract is up? Because I wouldn't. Joe Thornton, for example, got $8 million dollars in 2017-2018 for one year and $5 million dollars the year after, before he agree to $2 million this year. And we all saw how that turned out.

I won't assume Toews will sign for peanuts after his current contract is up; just as I didn't assume he would take a discount before eventually signing the highest-paid contract in the league (at the time) -- as many people did. When you think back, the only Hawk who has actually given the Hawks a "deal" (so to speak), is Hammer; and that was only after he screwed them by signing the SJ offer sheet for his initial contract. Perhaps there's one other example that I just can't think of right now, but my point is: it's few and far between for players to give the organization a break, financially. Yes, players in their mid-thirties are more prone to do so, but I still wouldn't count on it; and even if they were willing, it still isn't always the best decision for the team overall.

I just think this whole thing about playing his last game as a Blackhawk is a bit over-rated, really. He can still retire a Blackhawk even if he plays for another team -- so I don't see any issue.
 

vadarx

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Granny, I don't think any contender is taking on Toews's contract at any deadline. that was more my point. so, I don't think there is any chance of selling. the only core player that would be possible with would be Kane.

as far as he and 88 being resigned, I have no problem with it. I hope it happens. the cap will go up, Toews at least will take less. unless either is completely unable to contribute in a meaningful fashion, I think both should be retained.

just my $0.02...
 

Granada

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Granny, I don't think any contender is taking on Toews's contract at any deadline. that was more my point. so, I don't think there is any chance of selling. the only core player that would be possible with would be Kane.

as far as he and 88 being resigned, I have no problem with it. I hope it happens. the cap will go up, Toews at least will take less. unless either is completely unable to contribute in a meaningful fashion, I think both should be retained.

just my $0.02...

If a contender would take on Kane, I could see one taking on Toews. Toews could still be a fantastic 2nd line center or even 1st line, if a contender is deep enough.

It will depend on the direction of the team. If they fail to make the post-season this year, I'll be fine with drastic changes. It will suck to see any member of the core -- even Seabrook -- in a different jersey, but that's how it goes 99% of the time. It's rare players stick around on one team.
 

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Since this is a "Replace the GM/Coach" thread.....I feel compelled to mention that in today's Herald, John Dietz pointed out that in the last decade the Blackhawks have allowed 45 or more shots 18 times. Nine of those in the last year under Coach Crash.

Da system.....she ain't a workin
 

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