Second Base

[beckdawg]

IiRC he's supposed to make ~$10 mil... i'd rather just go after him after he's released if you want him.

 

[knoxville7]

IiRC he's supposed to make ~$10 mil... i'd rather just go after him after he's released if you want him.

It’s a 1 year deal, as he would be in his last year of ARB. If you wait and let him hit the open market...you’ll be looking at having to give a multi year deal at probably at least near that same 10mil annually.

 

[beckdawg]

It’s a 1 year deal, as he would be in his last year of ARB. If you wait and let him hit the open market...you’ll be looking at having to give a multi year deal at probably at least near that same 10mil annually.

If any team wanted him bad enough to claim him they wouldn't have to waive him. They could have traded him. Point being he'll be released. And additionally, he wont get a deal worth his arb number.

 

[CSF77]

I think it makes more sense to trade for Marte now. With Ben Cherington as the new GM there it should be far easier to pull a trade than ever before.

$11.5MM in 2020 and possibly $12.5MM via a club option for 2021

From what I've been reading they need a catcher.

I would try to 3 way this to give Pittsburgh talent and balance the trade in dollars. To add 11.5M they need to move the same. And Pitt will not want to take on contract in return. So maybe Q going to team a for some cost controlled then them sent with Caratini or Amaya for Marte.

That way extending Contreras makes sense as his framing has shown improvement. With Ross there it should continue that direction.

 

[knoxville7]

If any team wanted him bad enough to claim him they wouldn't have to waive him. They could have traded him. Point being he'll be released. And additionally, he wont get a deal worth his arb number.

No, that’s simply not true. When every team in the league knows the orioles are in full tank mode...why would they trade for him when they know he will be released if they cannot trade him? Every team knew villar would not be on the orioles opening day roster, thus killing any trade leverage there may of been.

He may not get a deal worth as much as his ARB case, but like I said...it’ll be a multi year deal probably somewhat close to what his ARB would be. The point of taking the 1 year ARB deal if your the cubs is to not give up your financial flexibility going forward...since we will have guys to extend and what not.

Claiming him would solve the 2b and lead off issue, while not giving up any assets to get him and not giving up your financial flexibility going forward.

 

[CSF77]

No, that’s simply not true. When every team in the league knows the orioles are in full tank mode...why would they trade for him when they know he will be released if they cannot trade him? Every team knew villar would not be on the orioles opening day roster, thus killing any trade leverage there may of been.

He may not get a deal worth as much as his ARB case, but like I said...it’ll be a multi year deal probably somewhat close to what his ARB would be. The point of taking the 1 year ARB deal if your the cubs is to not give up your financial flexibility going forward...since we will have guys to extend and what not.

Claiming him would solve the 2b and lead off issue, while not giving up any assets to get him and not giving up your financial flexibility going forward.

They have plenty of 2B depth. All you are doing is tossing more coal on that fire while a blizzard still rages in CF.

Typical correction. Fly in 5 circles before landing.

 

[knoxville7]

They have plenty of 2B depth. All you are doing is tossing more coal on that fire while a blizzard still rages in CF.

Typical correction. Fly in 5 circles before landing.

Oh? Who is currently the cubs opening day 2B then? And like I mentioned, it also solves the leadoff spot.

 

[anotheridiot]

Oh? Who is currently the cubs opening day 2B then? And like I mentioned, it also solves the leadoff spot.

Nico Hoerner, backed up by Happ, Bote, Descalso, Russell. If he is not getting a shot to win the job, I hope they move at least 3 of these guys instead of watching them sit.

 

[knoxville7]

Nico Hoerner, backed up by Happ, Bote, Descalso, Russell. If he is not getting a shot to win the job, I hope they move at least 3 of these guys instead of watching them sit.

Descalso hit like .177, bote is a role player, Russell is a human piece of shit, happ will be playing CF, and Hoerner will or should be in AAA. Hoerner is the only guy with real potential, but do you really want to trust the job to someone that green at the MLB level? If the cubs are trying to win, the answer is no.

Plus, if the cubs trade Bryant as some expect...bote will be playing 3B...not 2B. Happ/Almora platoon in CF. Russell is rumored to be a DFA candidate...and descalso isn’t any good. Villar still makes a lot of sense for the roster if the cubs are looking to compete this season

 

[CSF77]

Oh? Who is currently the cubs opening day 2B then? And like I mentioned, it also solves the leadoff spot.

1. Bote
2. Horner
3. Russell
4. Descalso
5. Happ
6. Zach Short. AAA and they protected him from rule V

 

[CSF77]

CF
1. Heyward off position
2. Almora (DFA Candidate)
3. Ian Happ (hard maybe)

That is why trading for Marte is the biggest impact that they can make. They are already connected to Ben in Pitt. The biggest problem is cash offset. Which I laid out. The 3rd party would be the other connection LAA. Q would give them needed pitching depth and the return would be what Ben wants for Pitt.

 

[knoxville7]

1. Bote
2. Horner
3. Russell
4. Descalso
5. Happ
6. Zach Short. AAA and they protected him from rule V

1. Is a back up utility player that should get around 300-350 at bats, and if the cubs trade Bryant will need to play mostly 3B
2. Is a rookie that looked solid in a very small sample size...probably needs another year of development at AAA
3. DFA candidate
4. Hit .173 last year
5. Probably should be playing more CF than 2B due to our need there.
6. Needs more development

To your CF post about marte...I find it interesting that you’re all for trading for a 31 year old OF, that doesn’t belong in CF anymore with a 2.9 WAR, but the idea of trading for a 31 year old Whit with a 4 WAR is somehow outlandish in your mind. Marte is a nice player, don’t get me wrong...but I don’t think he belongs in CF. So unless the plan is to keep heyward in CF full time(which I also don’t care for), then marte doesn’t really solve anything

 

[CSF77]

1. Is a back up utility player that should get around 300-350 at bats, and if the cubs trade Bryant will need to play mostly 3B
2. Is a rookie that looked solid in a very small sample size...probably needs another year of development at AAA
3. DFA candidate
4. Hit .173 last year
5. Probably should be playing more CF than 2B due to our need there.
6. Needs more development

To your CF post about marte...I find it interesting that you’re all for trading for a 31 year old OF, that doesn’t belong in CF anymore with a 2.9 WAR, but the idea of trading for a 31 year old Whit with a 4 WAR is somehow outlandish in your mind. Marte is a nice player, don’t get me wrong...but I don’t think he belongs in CF. So unless the plan is to keep heyward in CF full time(which I also don’t care for), then marte doesn’t really solve anything

We don't know what that they are going to do.

But what we know is nothing will happen until Bryant's case is resolved.

So everything else is gut checks.

But Bote did enough to be in the convo at 2B. Check his numbers and his D is better there than 3B. Add to it he hits RHP better than LHP. The whole part time angle may not apply to him.

Nico I am not going to argue on. Theo has said that battles are won and lost in spring training. So that is a clue in to what the plan is.

Add to it Theo did say in a perfect world the lead off and CF would be felled by 1 player. Marte kinda fits that and Ben taking over Pitt makes a in route and a true familiarity of what value the Cubs have.

As I was saying. If the Cubs can off set contract then the answer is pretty easy to see.

2B will be a in house battle. CF they would prefer to trade for.

 

[CSF77]

Marte is a nice player, don’t get me wrong...but I don’t think he belongs in CF. So unless the plan is to keep heyward in CF full time(which I also don’t care for), then marte doesn’t really solve anything

Well he has played CF just about every year with Pitt. And the last 3 the starter. Not sure if your opinion holds more weight that a baseball org's.

Witt is fair enough but it comes down to what you have. The depth that I listed favors 2B in house and CF traded for. I really don't know how much more that I can do to help you here.

 

[knoxville7]

Well he has played CF just about every year with Pitt. And the last 3 the starter. Not sure if your opinion holds more weight that a baseball org's.

Witt is fair enough but it comes down to what you have. The depth that I listed favors 2B in house and CF traded for. I really don't know how much more that I can do to help you here.

Marte isn’t the fielder he once was. -9 DRS last year. So, no...my opinion doesn’t matter more than a professional organization. However, it’s not opinion...it’s just fact

 

[CSF77]

Marte isn’t the fielder he once was. -9 DRS last year. So, no...my opinion doesn’t matter more than a professional organization. However, it’s not opinion...it’s just fact

1year degrade at age 31 is a bit of a reach on he is toast. You need more to work with. Even Almora went to the tank last year. Enough to qualify for a DFA. and that might happen.

The basic difference is OBA. Almora struggles to get over .300. Marte sits at ..327-.362 range every year.

We are talking about the same guy that traded for Fowler and started him in CF and the critics be damned right?

So it wouldn't be a shocker. It would be a 2 year control (sound familer?). And Davis should be near at that point.

 

[knoxville7]

1year degrade at age 31 is a bit of a reach on he is toast. You need more to work with. Even Almora went to the tank last year. Enough to qualify for a DFA. and that might happen.

The basic difference is OBA. Almora struggles to get over .300. Marte sits at ..327-.362 range every year.

We are talking about the same guy that traded for Fowler and started him in CF and the critics be damned right?

So it wouldn't be a shocker. It would be a 2 year control (sound familer?). And Davis should be near at that point.

I was never comparing marte to Almora. Sure, marte would be an offensive upgrade over Almora. I’m more inclined to play Happ in CF in 2020, though. The one year degrade at age 31 is much more likely to become the norm, than it is for a young CF defensively(Almora). I never said it would shock me if the cubs trade for marte...just simply that I think it would be a bad idea.

I’d rather they play Happ in CF and claim Villar off waivers to play 2B and leadoff. I still think there’s a good bit of potential in Happs bat. Marte we know what he is already, and he is in decline on top of it. Not to mention Happ is cheaper and still under multiple years of control.

 

[CSF77]

I was never comparing marte to Almora. Sure, marte would be an offensive upgrade over Almora. I’m more inclined to play Happ in CF in 2020, though. The one year degrade at age 31 is much more likely to become the norm, than it is for a young CF defensively(Almora). I never said it would shock me if the cubs trade for marte...just simply that I think it would be a bad idea.

I’d rather they play Happ in CF and claim Villar off waivers to play 2B and leadoff. I still think there’s a good bit of potential in Happs bat. Marte we know what he is already, and he is in decline on top of it. Not to mention Happ is cheaper and still under multiple years of control.

Happ is a hard reach at this point. He did show improvement. But he would need a break out year to be given a starting job.

I believe his flexibility is his greatest strength. And that is how he most likely will be utilized.

Now if he excelled at lead off this would be a non issue. Then Theo would have forced a every day spot. But he is a slash type so he is rotational.

Which is why I'm on boat with

Bote as the starting 2B.
Happ as the day off guy.
Russell DFA
Zach Short main UI
Nico AAA

It makes the most sense. If Nico blows up spring training pitching and upps his walk rate to 8-10% while pushing a strong contact rate you have to give him the job.

But in reality you don't go into spring with maybe on 2 positions. 1 solid 1 gamble is acceptable

 

[anotheridiot]

Happ is a hard reach at this point. He did show improvement. But he would need a break out year to be given a starting job.

I believe his flexibility is his greatest strength. And that is how he most likely will be utilized.

Now if he excelled at lead off this would be a non issue. Then Theo would have forced a every day spot. But he is a slash type so he is rotational.

Which is why I'm on boat with

Bote as the starting 2B.
Happ as the day off guy.
Russell DFA
Zach Short main UI
Nico AAA

It makes the most sense. If Nico blows up spring training pitching and upps his walk rate to 8-10% while pushing a strong contact rate you have to give him the job.

But in reality you don't go into spring with maybe on 2 positions. 1 solid 1 gamble is acceptable

I cant look at it as maybes. We have to look at it as actual competition, something that has been sorely lacking for the past 5 years. Madden did not fuck with the infield lineup and he got everyone a start at the all star game. It has been havoc ever since. The bullshit with the deals with betterans on playing time. Remember before Zobrist left for his time out? His deal with Joe had him starting a game and Ben went to Joe and said how Bote just had a great game, give him the start again.

Competition has been what this team has sorely lacked, and ultimately, it leads to their competitiveness on the field. The BS of Joe is gonna let Rizzo play whether he is hitting 20 of his last 40 or 1 of his last 40. You do not have to bench Rizzo for a week, but season starts game 1 and the giving up wins early to appease the millionaires egos is what needs to change to get the mentality of the team to change.

I really hope that is what Ross means by accountability.

Who cares if Almora and Happ are fighting for CF duty, or Nico, Bote, Happ, Russell, Denosefia are competing for second base, or if Chatwood, Mills, Alzolay, Rea and Cotton are actually competing for fifth and sixth starter duties.

Guys with starter mentalities are guys that are going to be needed in the pen with the three hitter rules and the specialists are going to go away. To me its looking like Theo is setting up for competition and Ross will be the bad guy in most fans eyes, but I think its what the team needs to win.

 

[CSF77]

I cant look at it as maybes. We have to look at it as actual competition, something that has been sorely lacking for the past 5 years. Madden did not fuck with the infield lineup and he got everyone a start at the all star game. It has been havoc ever since. The bullshit with the deals with betterans on playing time. Remember before Zobrist left for his time out? His deal with Joe had him starting a game and Ben went to Joe and said how Bote just had a great game, give him the start again.

Competition has been what this team has sorely lacked, and ultimately, it leads to their competitiveness on the field. The BS of Joe is gonna let Rizzo play whether he is hitting 20 of his last 40 or 1 of his last 40. You do not have to bench Rizzo for a week, but season starts game 1 and the giving up wins early to appease the millionaires egos is what needs to change to get the mentality of the team to change.

I really hope that is what Ross means by accountability.

Who cares if Almora and Happ are fighting for CF duty, or Nico, Bote, Happ, Russell, Denosefia are competing for second base, or if Chatwood, Mills, Alzolay, Rea and Cotton are actually competing for fifth and sixth starter duties.

Guys with starter mentalities are guys that are going to be needed in the pen with the three hitter rules and the specialists are going to go away. To me its looking like Theo is setting up for competition and Ross will be the bad guy in most fans eyes, but I think its what the team needs to win.

Rizzo is proven. It is not a 1-40 string. Players get hot and cool off. It happens in every sport to professional athletes. Not just baseball. So you have to look at over all production not chopped up segments.

Almora doesn't take walks. So he OBA will be .050 over his BA on a great year. For him to push a .330 OBA he would have to hit .280.

And that is perfectly fine. Starlin Castro is that guy also and there are plenty of contact players moving from team to team like this.

But Rizzo is a gold Glove, 26-35 HR and is good for near 100 RBI every year while pushing a .400 OBA every year. To bench him for a 1-40 string? Maybe a day off. Or lead him off because that changes his mind set and that becomes a key to get the engine started.

But Nico. 1 month is by no means a reasonable choice to start him. In that month he faded off after his hot start and the walk rate never developed. So he got over his head talent wise and he should get 300 PA vs AAA talent. See how it develops.

Almora we know who he is. There is no further talent to uncover. The question becomes if they want to pay more than league min for it

Happ I have no idea about. He is like Schwarber too much. We really don't know if, what or bust.

So I believe David will not be too different in how he handles the players. But there will be more accountability and drive to produce. Basically he is a fun guy to work for but will be more on them than Joe was. But that doesn't mean fire. That means improvement and focus.