Second Base

[anotheridiot]

Javier Baez has the instagram world in a buzz this morning after he posted a Gracias and Thanks picture.

Dont know if he is thanking the organization for the extension, but more are leading to a goodbye post.

 

[anotheridiot]

Scouts believe he can play CF. He played 91 innings in AA at CF and 8 in the majors. It's not uncommon for SS to move to CF. Billy Hamilton for example played SS from 2009-2012 in the minors. I believe Mookie Betts also was either a SS or 2B coming up.

It mostly comes down to you having the range for CF. Most grades on his speed are 55 or better which is more than enough and his arm has a weird throwing motion which is why he may move off SS but it's strong enough for SS which means it's easily strong enough for OF.

With that being said, I don't think this is a situation where he's suddenly your CF starting in ST. If he's gonna be a CF going forward I'd expect to see him in AAA there for awhile just to get more familiar with it.

Well, I do not think he has the arm for SS, so I highly doubt he has enough for CF. I wish they would just leave him at 2B and be done with this multiple position crap.

 

[knoxville7]

Well, I do not think he has the arm for SS, so I highly doubt he has enough for CF. I wish they would just leave him at 2B and be done with this multiple position crap.

Yeah, it’s almost like they think having players that can move around the field is a positive thing to have or something?

 

[anotheridiot]

Yeah, it’s almost like they think having players that can move around the field is a positive thing to have or something?

How long will it take for you to stop tea bagging Madden?

Personally, no, I do not think professional baseball players should be treated like little league players. You want to have one guy on the roster that can do it, fine. Two, ok, but to make it where everyone (except for Rizzo) can be moved anywhere on the diamond like he was 12 years old, I think you are missing the point of "professional" baseball.

 

[knoxville7]

How long will it take for you to stop tea bagging Madden?

Personally, no, I do not think professional baseball players should be treated like little league players. You want to have one guy on the roster that can do it, fine. Two, ok, but to make it where everyone (except for Rizzo) can be moved anywhere on the diamond like he was 12 years old, I think you are missing the point of "professional" baseball.

If it makes you a better team to be versatile, then it makes sense to do it...despite somehow making you feel all uncomfortable over seeing players used like “little leaguers.”

 

[Castor76]

If it makes you a better team to be versatile, then it makes sense to do it...despite somehow making you feel all uncomfortable over seeing players used like “little leaguers.”

I have to agree with Anotheridiot here. While having some players who can play multiple positions is great, I think knowing you are going to be in a spot in the line up and the field greatly helps most players because they can focus their energy there. Some players don't care. Great for them.

 

[Jssanto]

Scouts believe he can play CF. He played 91 innings in AA at CF and 8 in the majors. It's not uncommon for SS to move to CF. Billy Hamilton for example played SS from 2009-2012 in the minors. I believe Mookie Betts also was either a SS or 2B coming up.

It mostly comes down to you having the range for CF. Most grades on his speed are 55 or better which is more than enough and his arm has a weird throwing motion which is why he may move off SS but it's strong enough for SS which means it's easily strong enough for OF.

With that being said, I don't think this is a situation where he's suddenly your CF starting in ST. If he's gonna be a CF going forward I'd expect to see him in AAA there for awhile just to get more familiar with it.

That all seems reasonable.
Is there a league he can play CF in now?
It would be nice if our CFer could lead off. Any thoughts on Hoerner as lead off?

 

[anotheridiot]

If it makes you a better team to be versatile, then it makes sense to do it...despite somehow making you feel all uncomfortable over seeing players used like “little leaguers.”

What have we been watching since 2016? A team that has played worse defense and could not come thru in the clutch. You pocket protector guys, can you do the math of what a common denominator was? Maybe one of them was a bunch of guys bouncing around the field, well, other than Rizzo. No matter how bad Rizzo was hitting, he knew where he was playing every day. Does it effect the gold glove fielders like Heyward (who only earned his 20+ million because of great defense) by moving from right to center? I am not saying it was the only reason, but I think we can agree there was a slight possibility that it was part of the reason. Gotta keep the 20 million in the lineup so its ok for him to go 0-4 with 4 groundouts into the shift, but burn in hell Almora if you cant get on base.
That is basically all that has happened since 2016.

 

[fatbeard]

What have we been watching since 2016? A team that has played worse defense and could not come thru in the clutch. You pocket protector guys, can you do the math of what a common denominator was? Maybe one of them was a bunch of guys bouncing around the field, well, other than Rizzo. No matter how bad Rizzo was hitting, he knew where he was playing every day. Does it effect the gold glove fielders like Heyward (who only earned his 20+ million because of great defense) by moving from right to center? I am not saying it was the only reason, but I think we can agree there was a slight possibility that it was part of the reason. Gotta keep the 20 million in the lineup so its ok for him to go 0-4 with 4 groundouts into the shift, but burn in hell Almora if you cant get on base.
That is basically all that has happened since 2016.

I love how you constantly go off on "pocket protector guys" in a sport where every single front office is run by "pocket protector guys" that employ entire "pocket protector departments" and the teams that compete most consistently are the ones best at out-nerding all the others. Your obliviousness is truly unique.

 

[knoxville7]

What have we been watching since 2016? A team that has played worse defense and could not come thru in the clutch. You pocket protector guys, can you do the math of what a common denominator was? Maybe one of them was a bunch of guys bouncing around the field, well, other than Rizzo. No matter how bad Rizzo was hitting, he knew where he was playing every day. Does it effect the gold glove fielders like Heyward (who only earned his 20+ million because of great defense) by moving from right to center? I am not saying it was the only reason, but I think we can agree there was a slight possibility that it was part of the reason. Gotta keep the 20 million in the lineup so its ok for him to go 0-4 with 4 groundouts into the shift, but burn in hell Almora if you cant get on base.
That is basically all that has happened since 2016.

LOL @ the notion of me being a “pocket protector” guy, when I’m actually one of the people on here saying how I’m more old school and not so much of an analytics type of guy. But whatever...

Since you like to mention what has gone on since 2016, and not even acknowledge that IN 2016 the cubs won the World Series while moving guys around a lot. It didn’t bother any of them that year, but I guess they just got lucky that year, huh?

 

[anotheridiot]

LOL @ the notion of me being a “pocket protector” guy, when I’m actually one of the people on here saying how I’m more old school and not so much of an analytics type of guy. But whatever...

Since you like to mention what has gone on since 2016, and not even acknowledge that IN 2016 the cubs won the World Series while moving guys around a lot. It didn’t bother any of them that year, but I guess they just got lucky that year, huh?

Well, from my viewpoint, you were watching a bunch of young kids that had not yet earned the stay at one spot on the field.

But as far as it did not bother any of them that year? Didnt the entire infield make the all star game as starters? The example for the team was Ben Zobrist, mr move all over guy, but for some reason like the all star game, Joe left him at 2B the entire first half of the season. I mean, I know I remembered wondering why Zobrist was always at 2b. Come to think of it, the entire infield went to the all star game that year, all stuck at their positions the first half which got them voted in. So are you sure about them moving around alot in 2016?

Some could say we could really not be sure of what position they were going to stick at. (Remember in 2016, Kyle Schwarber was going to be the personal catcher for Jason Hammels, so who knows what his improving at catcher would have done for the next few years). But we all remember that Dexter (Kelly Leak) Fowler maimed him running to left field to catch a fly ball the first week of the fucking season. I would say all but Rizzo bounced around a hell of alot more in the years they did not win a world series than the year they did.

I love how you constantly go off on "pocket protector guys" in a sport where every single front office is run by "pocket protector guys" that employ entire "pocket protector departments" and the teams that compete most consistently are the ones best at out-nerding all the others. Your obliviousness is truly unique.

I know "pocket protector guys" insults people, why do you think I keep using it? And yes, every single front office is now run by guys who were never good enough to make a team. They found a way to weasel into the sport and make everyone around them feel stupid, as stupid as they felt growing up for not being able to hit, catch or throw a baseball.

 

[knoxville7]

Well, from my viewpoint, you were watching a bunch of young kids that had not yet earned the stay at one spot on the field.

But as far as it did not bother any of them that year? Didnt the entire infield make the all star game as starters? The example for the team was Ben Zobrist, mr move all over guy, but for some reason like the all star game, Joe left him at 2B the entire first half of the season. I mean, I know I remembered wondering why Zobrist was always at 2b. Come to think of it, the entire infield went to the all star game that year, all stuck at their positions the first half which got them voted in. So are you sure about them moving around alot in 2016?

Some could say we could really not be sure of what position they were going to stick at. (Remember in 2016, Kyle Schwarber was going to be the personal catcher for Jason Hammels, so who knows what his improving at catcher would have done for the next few years). But we all remember that Dexter (Kelly Leak) Fowler maimed him running to left field to catch a fly ball the first week of the fucking season. I would say all but Rizzo bounced around a hell of alot more in the years they did not win a world series than the year they did.



I know "pocket protector guys" insults people, why do you think I keep using it? And yes, every single front office is now run by guys who were never good enough to make a team. They found a way to weasel into the sport and make everyone around them feel stupid, as stupid as they felt growing up for not being able to hit, catch or throw a baseball.

Yeah, I’m certain they were moved around a bunch in 2016...

Bryant got a career high 48 starts in the OF
Baez had 20+ starts at 3B, 2B, and SS
Zobrist started 29 games in the OF
Contreras even had 21 starts in the OF that year
La Stella moved between 3rd and 2nd

 

[fatbeard]

I know "pocket protector guys" insults people, why do you think I keep using it? And yes, every single front office is now run by guys who were never good enough to make a team. They found a way to weasel into the sport and make everyone around them feel stupid, as stupid as they felt growing up for not being able to hit, catch or throw a baseball.

Someone is definitely not bitter about never making the bigs.

 

[CSF77]

Yeah, I’m certain they were moved around a bunch in 2016...

Bryant got a career high 48 starts in the OF
Baez had 20+ starts at 3B, 2B, and SS
Zobrist started 29 games in the OF
Contreras even had 21 starts in the OF that year
La Stella moved between 3rd and 2nd

I'm pretty sure that this is being way over played right now.

Last year Baez took SS over and now Russell is out.

3B they have Bote and that does free up Bryant for RF if they need to. With CF as a unknown situation they could end up getting creative with Happ, Bote, Heyward and Bryant.

The easy answer is Happ starting in CF and leave it at that. And it could play out that way.

 

[knoxville7]

I'm pretty sure that this is being way over played right now.

Last year Baez took SS over and now Russell is out.

3B they have Bote and that does free up Bryant for RF if they need to. With CF as a unknown situation they could end up getting creative with Happ, Bote, Heyward and Bryant.

The easy answer is Happ starting in CF and leave it at that. And it could play out that way.

Right...the thing is it was anotheridiot that stated moving guys around is a negative thing to team performance. I stated the above quoted to show that moving players around doesn’t equal negative team performance

 

[anotheridiot]

Yeah, I’m certain they were moved around a bunch in 2016...

Bryant got a career high 48 starts in the OF
Baez had 20+ starts at 3B, 2B, and SS
Zobrist started 29 games in the OF
Contreras even had 21 starts in the OF that year
La Stella moved between 3rd and 2nd

Second half right? I know they all played infield the first half to make the all star game. They would not have had enough time

Zobrist only started 4 games in right field from the beginning of the year to July 1

Contrares was the rookie backup catcher, not the all star game starter 2 years in a row. Schwarber was maimed, so backup catcher in LF, big deal right? Montero was the man. Contrares was the bench player.

Like I said, the rest were basically rookies who should have had no problem moving around. Baez did not start the all star game.

Since then, you had KB winning the MVP, Baez coming in 2nd in the MVP voting earning the starting SS job. Veterans with MVP wins or votes, its time to settle down.

Maybe you want to crunch some numbers on how much the other teams that achieved some goals between 2017 and 2019 did.

It just seems like the attitude is fuck them, they are getting paid, they should play wherever and still be a great fielder, great clutch hitter, great OBP guy. Great fielding and clutch hitters are what has been spiraling downward since 2016.

I am sure there is an argument for any number crunching fact that anyone comes up with. These are not rookies or second year players anymore.

 

[knoxville7]

Second half right? I know they all played infield the first half to make the all star game. They would not have had enough time

Zobrist only started 4 games in right field from the beginning of the year to July 1

Contrares was the rookie backup catcher, not the all star game starter 2 years in a row. Schwarber was maimed, so backup catcher in LF, big deal right? Montero was the man. Contrares was the bench player.

Like I said, the rest were basically rookies who should have had no problem moving around. Baez did not start the all star game.

Since then, you had KB winning the MVP, Baez coming in 2nd in the MVP voting earning the starting SS job. Veterans with MVP wins or votes, its time to settle down.

Maybe you want to crunch some numbers on how much the other teams that achieved some goals between 2017 and 2019 did.

It just seems like the attitude is fuck them, they are getting paid, they should play wherever and still be a great fielder, great clutch hitter, great OBP guy. Great fielding and clutch hitters are what has been spiraling downward since 2016.

I am sure there is an argument for any number crunching fact that anyone comes up with. These are not rookies or second year players anymore.

So your complaint is that the cubs have moved guys around too much since 2016...but then go on to mention all the accolades guys have won in the same time frame that you complain about them being moved around too much. Those two statements contradict themselves

 

[fatbeard]

So your complaint is that the cubs have moved guys around too much since 2016...but then go on to mention all the accolades guys have won in the same time frame that you complain about them being moved around too much. Those two statements contradict themselves

It's Exhibit A in how pattern-seeking primates will settle for a bad answer rather than no answer at all.

 

[CSF77]

I'm all for static player position. But being able to cover open positions is a plus not a minus.

Who would you rather have in the line up? Almora or Bote? Answer is Bote 100% of the time.

 

[anotheridiot]

I'm all for static player position. But being able to cover open positions is a plus not a minus.

Who would you rather have in the line up? Almora or Bote? Answer is Bote 100% of the time.

Defense up the middle is 100% of the time and Almora is the best center fielder we have. Heyward is the best right fielder we have. I think Bote is best at third base.

I am not against your 23 and 24th position players being a zobrist type of being able to play everywhere. All I am saying is we have not see what this team could do when players stay at one position for a long time. You look at all the variables, most wont let me blame Madden, now I cant blame superstars bouncing all over the field. Its just go back to blame all the low dollar players for not being good enough.