The Rebuild Projection : Updated as we go

NdSoxfan2

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The White Sox have acquired "Elijah" Tatis.

May he be our savior and help us not look at the colossal fuck-up we have made(either that or Madrigal becomes an all-star)

Keep covering that ass Hahn!! Lets not let this fester in our souls for an entire career!
It is time to pull the plug on Rick Hahn and the so-called rebuilding plan. It is under his (lack of) leadership and guidance and it is a complete disater. I thought last year's team was the worst in Sox history and this year's team isn't much better. The plan is going nowhere fast.
 

Raskolnikov

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It is time to pull the plug on Rick Hahn and the so-called rebuilding plan. It is under his (lack of) leadership and guidance and it is a complete disater. I thought last year's team was the worst in Sox history and this year's team isn't much better. The plan is going nowhere fast.
If Madrigal can be a starter and good defensively I'll let Tatis Jr slide. (who looks like he may be plagued with back issues)


I wouldn't call it "a disaster," they just need to spend some money on free agent pitchers. If the plan was to win and stay under 60,000,000...well it wasn't much of a plan then was it?
 

Raskolnikov

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Also...Cease is an interesting piece to it. Much like Giolito in his first year he is struggling bad, however, much like Giolito he is showing good stuff and more than Giolito did, good command.

Cease will be able to get through a MLB line-up with some fine tuning, imo. That is a great sign for the rebuild if he turns the corner and becomes a #2 or #3. I am impressed with his stuff, and encouraged he has the command and good pitchers mentality.

Lopez may always be inconsistent, and Rodon/Kopech aren't here and may be reduced in ability.

I would target going hard for one free agent pitcher. Not a hard bargain price....go get one free agent. Not Cole or Bumgarner for this stage of rebuild, they should have gone and traded for Bauer or somebody they can sign long term.

Keuchel will be available again. Maybe try to get him at 15,000,000 per, 4-6 years. Somebody that can pitch and is stable.

The Dodgers can't keep all their pitchers can they? Go after one of theirs in a trade maybe.
 

NdSoxfan2

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Also...Cease is an interesting piece to it. Much like Giolito in his first year he is struggling bad, however, much like Giolito he is showing good stuff and more than Giolito did, good command.

Cease will be able to get through a MLB line-up with some fine tuning, imo. That is a great sign for the rebuild if he turns the corner and becomes a #2 or #3. I am impressed with his stuff, and encouraged he has the command and good pitchers mentality.

Lopez may always be inconsistent, and Rodon/Kopech aren't here and may be reduced in ability.

I would target going hard for one free agent pitcher. Not a hard bargain price....go get one free agent. Not Cole or Bumgarner for this stage of rebuild, they should have gone and traded for Bauer or somebody they can sign long term.

Keuchel will be available again. Maybe try to get him at 15,000,000 per, 4-6 years. Somebody that can pitch and is stable.

The Dodgers can't keep all their pitchers can they? Go after one of theirs in a trade maybe.
I don't think Rodon is a viable option, he can't stay healthy. Seems to me the entire pitching staff needs a re-build.

Live in central Ohio so I don't see many games, so I wonder have the Sox quit?
 

Raskolnikov

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I don't think Rodon is a viable option, he can't stay healthy. Seems to me the entire pitching staff needs a re-build.

Live in central Ohio so I don't see many games, so I wonder have the Sox quit?
They put in a great effort to "spoil" the Indians last night, nearly taking 4 runs off Brad Hand and 6 runs in the 9th. So no, they ain't quit.

Moncada and Anderson look great and are good to all-star level infielders with plus speed. All around packages.
Abreu is still the best hitter on the team, despite some decline and minor compared to some shift effect. He can still get hot and has been hot in August.
Jiminez has shown the potential to surpass his bat, and certainly the power stroke is evident. He begins his career at a veteran Schwarber level of impact.
Robert is a wizard with the bat and has not been slowed down yet. The latest he will debut is may if the Sox want to justify the year lost to the press and players union, as they can't make a baseball case not to promote him.

They have a definite core that can at least swing the bat. Play defense? IDK, might need some tweaking but the ammo is there for a line-up.

The problem is even with the blessing of an all-star Giolito emerging, with absolutely zero veteran stability or support on the pitching staff he comes up and is teaching the youth a year into his career. lol.

No matter...the time to spend that money was not now. Its an empty cubbard. The team will not compete until they have 3-4 pitchers capable of dominating consistently. Even then, you are probably lucky if 2 finish the season strong and give a club an actual playoff shot. So the target should always be 2 finishing strong, and in my mind, teams like the Sox have to think bigger and find a way to acquire 5 or 6 of them. Then maybe 3-4 have good seasons, and a good chance 1 or 2 are healthy and going strong at the end of one.

They got lucky in 05' that a staff 4-5 strong appeared out of nowhere. You have to be thinking 6-7 every year, like the Red Sox, especially in the American league absorbing an additional run per game. Attrition is normal, and constant...the only way they can absorb some innings and preserve their young guys from carrying these loads is to go buy some stability and start collecting 6-7 guys that can get a baseball game going.

Giolito is one.

Cease looks like he could be one.
Rodon and Kopech are risky hopes. You hope you get 1 back that counts.
Nova and Lopez are guys. Fillers, but ok for now.

So lets say a rating of "7" is where Rask thinks a team should be to deal with 9 innings 150+ times.

I'd say this is a 2.5-3. And buying 4 more veterans is the minimum. 2 good ones, an upside guy, and a prayerful recoverer.

Then add that to what they have, and it will sustain through the year and come out about right with 2-3 guys rolling ok and a playoff hunt.

Thats probably all it is now...just time to buy some pitching. But they have to accept they won't get it done without outside reinforcements or some trades.

Sign one, acquire one, dig a few more holes, and hopefully raise one.
 

The Boletarian

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It is time to pull the plug on Rick Hahn and the so-called rebuilding plan. It is under his (lack of) leadership and guidance and it is a complete disater. I thought last year's team was the worst in Sox history and this year's team isn't much better. The plan is going nowhere fast.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a complete disaster (and trust me, I'm no Rick Hahn fan), but it's definitely going much slower than anticipated. Injuries to key players in the minors definitely didn't help at all either. Not getting a big time free agent last offseason also slowed down the rebuild. Imagine having both Harper and Machado added to the offense. That's literally 50+ homeruns more replacing Palka/Cordell/Tilson/Sanchez/Rondon's stats.

I disagree with you about the team not being much better than last year. I think they're a lot better. In all honesty this current team easily could have competed for .500 if they'd have just stayed healthy with Rodon, Moncada, Jimenez, and Anderson. They were only two games under .500 before the break. Plus look at the progress that Giolito and Moncada have made in one season. They've both had very strong turnarounds from the previous year. I hope that's Cease and Jimenez next year growing.

Next year we'll have an actual center fielder that can hit, run, and play defense. We'll have a second baseman that can hit, run, and play defense. We'll have Kopech back, but they could use another solid starter to go with Giolito, Kopech, Cease, and Lopez. They really need to solidify the DH position and right field. Both of those areas plagued the team immensely this year. We'll see what they bring in for free agency, but I'm not holding my breath on them actually spending any real money.

Here's what the lineup should look like.

2B Madrigal
CF Robert
3B Moncada
LF Jimenez
1B/DH Abreu (Vaughn will be up either late in the year or 2021)
SS(hope they move or trade him) Anderson
DH/1B/C Collins
C/DH McCann
RF ??? We need help bad

Giolito
Kopech
Cease
Lopez
Need a Lefty
 

SilenceS

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Eloy may be the slowest 22 year old I have ever seen. Royals turned a double play on a slow chopper in the hole and it wasnt even close at first. I was mesmerized.
 

brett05

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Eloy may be the slowest 22 year old I have ever seen. Royals turned a double play on a slow chopper in the hole and it wasnt even close at first. I was mesmerized.
Yeah, he's our future DH/1b with Vaughn at some point. He just doesn't have the wheels
 

The Boletarian

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Yeah, he's our future DH/1b with Vaughn at some point. He just doesn't have the wheels
Scary thing is he's actually gotten better as the year has gone on and he's still really bad in left. As much as Engel isn't an everyday center fielder, they couldn't continue to keep letting guys play horribly in the outfield alongside Eloy so they had to bring him back up. A good portion of our pitchers' E.R.A. is because of how poorly the defense has played around them. Allowing balls to drop in or go over their heads that average outfielders easily catch is just frustrating.
 

brett05

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Scary thing is he's actually gotten better as the year has gone on and he's still really bad in left. As much as Engel isn't an everyday center fielder, they couldn't continue to keep letting guys play horribly in the outfield alongside Eloy so they had to bring him back up. A good portion of our pitchers' E.R.A. is because of how poorly the defense has played around them. Allowing balls to drop in or go over their heads that average outfielders easily catch is just frustrating.
If Engel could hit consistently .240-.250 we'd have CF solved.

I think it's time to see if Anderson can play an OF position. I'd like to try that out the rest of the way for this season.
 

Raskolnikov

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Jiminez/Abreu/Vaughn need to share 2 positions. That could work the next 18-24 months...so no harm in trying to get Abreu for 2-3 more years, imo.

1. Anderson SS
2. Moncada 3B
3. Robert RF
4. Jimenez DH
5. Abreu 1B
6. McCann C
7. Walker/Rutherford/Burger LF
8. Madrigal 2B
9. Engel CF


They for sure need to restructure the team to support better defense, and add a quality veteran arm, but for now I think they could be above .500 next year with above.
 

dennehy

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Yeah I see Robert as a long term RF. I think they need to grab a free agent OF this year. Leury can play CF most days if need be, but it would be nice to have him as a utility guy.

I saw Vaughn play a strong game, but his season was pretty meh for a third overall pick at the level he was at. He's going to have be a much different player to have a chance at the majors next year.
 

brett05

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Jiminez/Abreu/Vaughn need to share 2 positions. That could work the next 18-24 months...so no harm in trying to get Abreu for 2-3 more years, imo.

1. Anderson SS
2. Moncada 3B
3. Robert RF
4. Jimenez DH
5. Abreu 1B
6. McCann C
7. Walker/Rutherford/Burger LF
8. Madrigal 2B
9. Engel CF


They for sure need to restructure the team to support better defense, and add a quality veteran arm, but for now I think they could be above .500 next year with above.
Burger may never play baseball again...it's nearly two seasons since he last played.
 

Raskolnikov

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Yeah I see Robert as a long term RF. I think they need to grab a free agent OF this year. Leury can play CF most days if need be, but it would be nice to have him as a utility guy.

I saw Vaughn play a strong game, but his season was pretty meh for a third overall pick at the level he was at. He's going to have be a much different player to have a chance at the majors next year.
probably working on his swing and thinking too much, lots of adjustments to make early especially with organizations changing philosophies.

madrigal also stalled for the first minute..I think Vaughn is fine but not a 2020 impact player, I assume he will be called up late next year, or the following spring/summer, which is why I say go ahead and hold onto Abreu if you can talk him into it.
 

The Boletarian

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If Engel could hit consistently .240-.250 we'd have CF solved.

I think it's time to see if Anderson can play an OF position. I'd like to try that out the rest of the way for this season.
No, .240-.250 is not acceptable with a prime time star slated for CF next year. He needs to be much much better than that especially when that puts his OPS still under .700. As I said at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, Engel is a late inning replacement outfielder because he can't hit. He's 27 and simply can't hit at the major league level. He's proven it time and again he's not good enough to be an everyday player.

As far as Anderson is concerned, I'd love for him to be traded while he still has value. I fear he'll regress at the plate like he has in the field this year. His defense has been atrocious. His OBP is laughable for a guy leading the league in average. He still strikes out way too much for a guy that hits <20 HR a season. The only reason his OBP is as high as it is right now is because Keller hit him on purpose. Though if they tried him in right, he sure couldn't be any worse than any of the yahoos they've had play there this year.
 

Raskolnikov

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No, .240-.250 is not acceptable with a prime time star slated for CF next year. He needs to be much much better than that especially when that puts his OPS still under .700. As I said at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, Engel is a late inning replacement outfielder because he can't hit. He's 27 and simply can't hit at the major league level. He's proven it time and again he's not good enough to be an everyday player.

As far as Anderson is concerned, I'd love for him to be traded while he still has value. I fear he'll regress at the plate like he has in the field this year. His defense has been atrocious. His OBP is laughable for a guy leading the league in average. He still strikes out way too much for a guy that hits <20 HR a season. The only reason his OBP is as high as it is right now is because Keller hit him on purpose. Though if they tried him in right, he sure couldn't be any worse than any of the yahoos they've had play there this year.
Defense and pitching go hand in hand. This staff is tough on fielders.
 

brett05

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No, .240-.250 is not acceptable with a prime time star slated for CF next year. He needs to be much much better than that especially when that puts his OPS still under .700. As I said at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, Engel is a late inning replacement outfielder because he can't hit. He's 27 and simply can't hit at the major league level. He's proven it time and again he's not good enough to be an everyday player.

As far as Anderson is concerned, I'd love for him to be traded while he still has value. I fear he'll regress at the plate like he has in the field this year. His defense has been atrocious. His OBP is laughable for a guy leading the league in average. He still strikes out way too much for a guy that hits <20 HR a season. The only reason his OBP is as high as it is right now is because Keller hit him on purpose. Though if they tried him in right, he sure couldn't be any worse than any of the yahoos they've had play there this year.
Engel hits .240-.250 and plays his stellar defense that's like a 3 win player. Perfect for this team that is awful on defense.

Anderson has always been pretty bad defensively, this year is more of the same. I think his bat is fine, but it needs a new position. I could handle a trade of Anderson but for a starting corner or sp 2 pitcher.
 

Raskolnikov

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Engel hits .240-.250 and plays his stellar defense that's like a 3 win player. Perfect for this team that is awful on defense.

Anderson has always been pretty bad defensively, this year is more of the same. I think his bat is fine, but it needs a new position. I could handle a trade of Anderson but for a starting corner or sp 2 pitcher.
Engel and Barube can battle it out for 4th outfielder. Giolito requests Engel I heard.
 

The Boletarian

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Engel hits .240-.250 and plays his stellar defense that's like a 3 win player. Perfect for this team that is awful on defense.

Anderson has always been pretty bad defensively, this year is more of the same. I think his bat is fine, but it needs a new position. I could handle a trade of Anderson but for a starting corner or sp 2 pitcher.
That's not like a 3 win player at all. His WAR this year alone is .8 and he's played in half the games. He strikes out way too much for a guy with 6 homers. Let's be honest, how many other teams is he even making the roster on? The only reason he's jumped above .240 this year is because he's beating up on September call ups. There's a reason he was sent to AAA again. He's not consistent enough at the plate and guys that throw 92 MPH fastballs blow it by him.

Again, I was perfectly fine with bringing him back up this year though because they couldn't continue to let the outfield defense be as bad as it was. I can honestly say without a doubt the White Sox pitching staff have at the very minimum a run more on their ERA's because of how bad the outfield defense was this year. It was actually making Cease look much worse than he was for several starts in a row.
 
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