What are the actual offensive problems?

[sevvy]

I don't think people really realize how shit Nagy has been. I also think it's funny that blaming Nagy for most of our offense's failures makes people think I'm protecting Trubisky. Lol.

Dude, please release Trubisky right fucking now if we have a better plan for QB. Get rid of him. I don't give a fuck. Fuck Trubisky. Lol. But then watch Nagy run the same garbage and make our new QB look horrible, too. I don't think Trubisky is good. I think he's pretty average. But god damn, he's got no chance to grow at all with how bad this offense is.

Nagy was obviously more interested in running the ball. So there was more balance in regards to run/pass. But that's not the only balance there is to have on offense. True balance on offense will keep opposing defenses on their toes, and open up so many more options for this offense. Mixing in runs, and then having designed dump-offs for Trubisky is not a good offense either.

And then the runs from shotgun to Montgomery on that TD. We were fortunate that he got in. Because running the same fucking play... how many times in a row? That's just stupid. It's just painful to watch.

 

[Porkchop]

I would be interested to see if the All-22 bears this out.

I would agree Denver had tight coverage much of the game, but is it true no one was open the majority of the game.

I'd like to see it as well, but based on what I've seen from the condensed clips and what I've been reading, it was vacuum sealed coverage and some horrible route discipline by the receivers not named Allen Robinson.

 

[HearshotKDS]

The Kollman video did a good overview of the biggest issues, and we saw a few of them resurface yesterday:

* Mitch misreading defenses or missing open receivers - there was less of this in G2 but it was basically the story of G1
* Mitch missing throws or throwing to wrong "spot" on a receiver - You can scheme guys wide open, but it doesn't mean shit if the QB can't get the ball there. Also many of the short passing routes that you move to when the deep and intermediate stuff is off require hitting the receiver in stride to enable YAC. Making the receiver stop or pirouette to catch a pass ruins any opportunity for YAC, which is where shifty guys like Gabriel or Cohen excel.
* Dropped passes - Cohen has fucking butter fingers this year, but a bunch of guys missed passes that hit their hands.
* Play calling - I think a lot of meatballs are mistaking misread plays and missed opportunities for "bad play call", but Nagy was too pass heavy in the G1, and then swung the pendulum way too far in the opposite direction in G2 and basically called the game like he had a rookie QB from the second quarter til last drive.
*OLine - Terrible in G1 but bounced back in G2, Bears are averaging 4.5 YPC on the ground on 100 YPG... that's decent.
* Stupid fucking penalties at key moments - How do you let a delay of game knock you out of field goal range in a 3 point game? (Happened game 1) How do you have 12 men in the huddle on 4th and 10, literally playing for the game? These are sloppy mistakes that are directly tied to coaching. What do you think Belichick would do if an extra player lined up in the huddle on 4th and 10 with the game on the line? He would rip their guts out with his bare hands in front of an entire stadium.
* Mike Davis - he sucks.
* TEs - With Burton injured this is a lackluster group, despite Shaheen doing well yesterday.

 

[Teddy KGB]

I think there's enough blame to go around, but I also think there were too many issues from the first game *cough*preseason *cough* that you can't fix them all in just game 2.

I think they smartly opted to fix the Offensive line first. Most coaches, when they feel like their O-Line is out of rhythm, will call a lot of runs to help them snap back into shape because run-blocking is the easier thing to do, and it helps with the group cohesion.

So while people might be bashing Nagy for the Denver gameplan, the steady diet of runs helped the O-line's cohesion and now they have a better jumping off point.

Another factor is the amount of Dime defense being played against us. Granted, I don't know how much Denver played dime, but Green Bay did a ton of it, and our receivers could not get open to save their lives. And its because teams just have multiple levels of defensive backs waiting now on our receivers.

And the way you beat that, is by running the ball right up their damn gut. Which is what Nagy did. Not to mention, the reason Denver wins so many hope openers, is because they get teams gassed by the 4th quarter with their running game - they've been doing it since Shannahan. If you can keep getting first downs by running the ball, you tire a defense out. Even moreso up in the Denver air.

So Nagy took what Denver usually does to others, and did it right damn back to them, so their defense was gassed too by the end of it. Equalized the playing field.

So I really don't have a ton of problems with Nagy.

But lately, it seems like Nagy is getting increasingly frustrated with Mitch, like all of us.

Mitch isn't franchise caliber. I think we all can agree. But he plays MUCH better when asked not to think. Did you notice they didn't call RPOs in the Denver game? Pulled that responsibility from Mitch because it relies on the QB's judgement, which right now for Mitch is poor.

Get Mitch playing fast, and he's better.

I think the Bears need to give Mitch the Jared Goff treatment. Goff was a total bust before McVay got there. And McVay tailored his offense to what Goff can do, rather than what he can't. Nagy needs to follow suit. They don't even need Goff-like numbers at the end of this. Just get Mitch playing fast and comfortable, and let the defense carry the load this year.

The ability to do that will ultimately tell me whether or not Nagy is worth keeping...

 

[HeHateMe]

I think there's enough blame to go around, but I also think there were too many issues from the first game *cough*preseason *cough* that you can't fix them all in just game 2.

I think they smartly opted to fix the Offensive line first. Most coaches, when they feel like their O-Line is out of rhythm, will call a lot of runs to help them snap back into shape because run-blocking is the easier thing to do, and it helps with the group cohesion.

So while people might be bashing Nagy for the Denver gameplan, the steady diet of runs helped the O-line's cohesion and now they have a better jumping off point.

Another factor is the amount of Dime defense being played against us. Granted, I don't know how much Denver played dime, but Green Bay did a ton of it, and our receivers could not get open to save their lives. And its because teams just have multiple levels of defensive backs waiting now on our receivers.

And the way you beat that, is by running the ball right up their damn gut. Which is what Nagy did. Not to mention, the reason Denver wins so many hope openers, is because they get teams gassed by the 4th quarter with their running game - they've been doing it since Shannahan. If you can keep getting first downs by running the ball, you tire a defense out. Even moreso up in the Denver air.

So Nagy took what Denver usually does to others, and did it right damn back to them, so their defense was gassed too by the end of it. Equalized the playing field.

So I really don't have a ton of problems with Nagy.

But lately, it seems like Nagy is getting increasingly frustrated with Mitch, like all of us.

Mitch isn't franchise caliber. I think we all can agree. But he plays MUCH better when asked not to think. Did you notice they didn't call RPOs in the Denver game? Pulled that responsibility from Mitch because it relies on the QB's judgement, which right now for Mitch is poor.

Get Mitch playing fast, and he's better.

I think the Bears need to give Mitch the Jared Goff treatment. Goff was a total bust before McVay got there. And McVay tailored his offense to what Goff can do, rather than what he can't. Nagy needs to follow suit. They don't even need Goff-like numbers at the end of this. Just get Mitch playing fast and comfortable, and let the defense carry the load this year.

The ability to do that will ultimately tell me whether or not Nagy is worth keeping...

I can't believe they let you out of the Area 51 detention center.

 

[Midway Fields]

I agree with everything OP stated.

Defenses are just sitting on everything within 10 yards. Nagy needs to adjust for this and challenge defenses vertically and not just with the A-Rob back shoulder side line pass.

Nagy makes it look like any seam, slants, deep ins, posts are not part of the playbook.

Defenses are teeing off.

 

[gilder121]

The ability to do that will ultimately tell me whether or not Nagy is worth keeping...

For the sake of argument, let's say that Mitch's confidence is shot or he is so limited that running an NFL offense is just not possible now that teams know his limitations. Does that necessarily mean that Nagy isn't the guy if the offense stays bad?


I don't know if Mitch is actually that bad, but he has been performing like he is that bad.

 

[Burque]

The issue is that Mitchell cannot throw a pass to the left that is accurate.

 

[Porkchop]

For the sake of argument, let's say that Mitch's confidence is shot or he is so limited that running an NFL offense is just not possible now that teams know his limitations. Does that necessarily mean that Nagy isn't the guy if the offense stays bad?


I don't know if Mitch is actually that bad, but he has been performing like he is that bad.

If that were the case, then Nagy isn't doing him any favors with his ludicrous playcalling and the personnel he's trotting out.

 

[Teddy KGB]

For the sake of argument, let's say that Mitch's confidence is shot or he is so limited that running an NFL offense is just not possible now that teams know his limitations. Does that necessarily mean that Nagy isn't the guy if the offense stays bad?


I don't know if Mitch is actually that bad, but he has been performing like he is that bad.

Have to take it as it comes, but right now, while Mitch doesn't seem AS confident as he did last year, he doesn't seem YET like someone whose confidence is shot.

I would imagine what is going on right now behind the scenes, is they are trying to figure out what Mitch can and cannot do, and Mitch knows he "let the team down" by not being able to catch on like Nagy wanted. But Nagy is likely trying to protect that confidence, and walking the tightrope of remaking the offense on the fly - using the same plays, but gearing things to what Mitch is good at, all while telling the kid its for the good of the team and so long as it results in wins to keep his head up, team believes in your leadership, rah rah rah.

We will know for sure Monday night.

If the offense calls little to no RPOs on Monday night, I'm dead on.

 

[Probie2429]

I will give Mitch credit for living up to what it means to be a Bears QB.

Even Mason Rudolph can throw a deep ball.

 

[remydat]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1157305010348339200

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1173654831594201091

Can you spot the problem on offense?

 

[Rob219_CBMB]

Mitch just didn't look comfortable lately..he hasn't settled yet. If he doesn't gets it together vs redskins than we probably have another player with shit in his head.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Which studs specifically? Robinson and Montgomery? Or are you just saying cut Mike Davis and Patterson out of the game plan?

Add Cohen. Get him out in space. What’s he running up the middle for? That should be Montgomery and Davis job when Montgomery isn’t in. I wouldn’t cut Patterson or Gabriel from a plan, but I would start with 3 and move out from there.

 

[botfly10]

What are the actual problems vs. what is just a byproduct of everything looking bad?

What are the real limiting factors of the offense?

A sampling of things that I've seen or have crossed my mind-
- Defenses have adjusted to Nagy's play calling and he needs to figure out how to adjust back.
- Nagy is too "cute" and needs to stop running a gadget offense
- Nagy struggles with game flow and how to adjust his play calling.

- Mitch struggles to read defenses
- Mitch misses open throws
- Mitch is inconsistent
- Mitch let's emotions affect him too heavily

- O-Line pass blocking
- Run blocking

- WRs not winning 1v1 or making correct adjustments to zone coverage

- Too many matchup guys, not enough prototype position players
- The offense needs Trey Burton and he is struggling with availability
- The wrong guys are playing

Plus any others that you can think of.

meh

most of these are symptomatic of just a few key problems imo

1. OL has played like shit. This has prevented Trubs from taking on a game manager role and has put him in a position where he has to step up and be a creator and play at a level he is not capable of. I don't think this is a personnel problem, but rather lack of preparation. The starting unit should have gotten a lot more snaps during preseason.

2. At this point, Trubs just isn't that good. He is not capable of carrying the offense and the whole scheme has to be shifted to account for his shortcomings. Who knows how this pans out, but it doesn't look great right now.

 

[TheWinman]

Boomer Esiason says Mitch is much better than he has looked the first two weeks. Says to look for Nagy to open it up way more against the skins. I'll take the work of a former probowl QB over forum members.

Many of these are a serious concern, but I have to disagree with the Mitch emotion one...I don't think emotions have anything to do with it, he's just not that good.

I think Nagy's play calling will work itself out.

I do believe you're on to something with "too many matchup guys, not enough prototype position players..."

As I pointed out in a lot of posts this morning, I think we've been overrating our offensive players completely.

 

[RubberBanMan]

Can't throw with anticipation? Nagy calls out a play from Sunday where arob flattened his route out too much so it looked like an off target throw to people that don't know the intricacies of the offense (all of us) but Mitch threw the ball where it was supposed to be.

Not excusing Mitch's play but the 'he can't read or go through progressions or this and that* is just old. Having said that, no he hasn't been good enough.

 

[Monster]

Lol... Luke Fucking Falk walks off a practice squad, gets thrown in and goes 22-25 for 198 and no turnovers.
If not for a Bell fumble and a stalled 4th down he would have had two more scoring drives.
Falk doesn’t even have an NFL arm!

The Bears have a QB curse or some shit.
Give Mitch until the bi-week, if still a clown trade Mack for Rosen, Giesicki and a first... see what Rosen can do on a decent team... it literally can’t hurt at that point. Assuming Miami would even do it... if they like Rosen they have a shit ton of picks over next two years... they might say eat shit.
At any rate what good will 8-8 do Chicago with no picks.
I’m gonna go throw up now.

 

[WindyCity]

I agree with everything OP stated.

Defenses are just sitting on everything within 10 yards. Nagy needs to adjust for this and challenge defenses vertically and not just with the A-Rob back shoulder side line pass.

Nagy makes it look like any seam, slants, deep ins, posts are not part of the playbook.

Defenses are teeing off.

Have you seen Trubisky's deep numbers? They are horrible. The problem is not that the Bears do not run deep routes, it is that 10 is to scared or inaccurate to hit them.

 

[Bearly]

Lol... Luke Fucking Falk walks off a practice squad, gets thrown in and goes 22-25 for 198 and no turnovers.
If not for a Bell fumble and a stalled 4th down he would have had two more scoring drives.
Falk doesn’t even have an NFL arm!

The Bears have a QB curse or some shit.
Give Mitch until the bi-week, if still a clown trade Mack for Rosen, Giesicki and a first... see what Rosen can do on a decent team... it literally can’t hurt at that point. Assuming Miami would even do it... if they like Rosen they have a shit ton of picks over next two years... they might say eat shit.
At any rate what good will 8-8 do Chicago with no picks.
I’m gonna go throw up now.

Trying to instantly integrate a QB into this O is a fool's errand. I have no issue with trying someone else if Mitch is a fail but even if you bring someone in now, it's for next year unless Mitch goes down. The guys that are strongly anti Mitch are just going to have to deal with it this year regardless of his play.