What I want to see from Pace

Angry Boomer

President Mayhem
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
27,601
Liked Posts:
9,556
Location:
Hillbilly Heaven
So one game is enough for you to be satisfied. Get a grip man. Even Ryan Fitzpatrick looks great for one game a year.
It was a return to his success from last year..We all know he was handcuffed by Nagy all year..The Dallas game was the first time Nagy let him play his game

I know that nothing anyone says here will satisfy you, so I will let you wallow in your hatred
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,829
Liked Posts:
11,963
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
It was a return to his success from last year..We all know he was handcuffed by Nagy all year..The Dallas game was the first time Nagy let him play his game

I know that nothing anyone says here will satisfy you, so I will let you wallow in your hatred
His “return to last year” which average. Is that a good thing? Isn’t he supposed to be getting better with time?
 

DaaBears

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
10,806
Liked Posts:
11,005
I would prefer to look at his entire body of work where he isn’t an accurate QB. Isn’t that smarter than looking at 2 fucking games?

Perhaps, or you might take a young QB, at look at his most recent "body of work" since this is new CCS terminology referred to Trubisky. Perhaps Nagy tried to make a pocket QB out of him, and it didn't work out, now with the change he has come into his own? Some of the best QBs ever were turnover machines early in their careers. Why wouldn't you look for the positives? They are certainly there over the last few games no matter how much some like to scrutinize him. Imagine message board people saying "I want to evaluate based on the entire body of work". Relax a bit and maybe enjoy. Its only a game.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,829
Liked Posts:
11,963
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
Perhaps, or you might take a young QB, at look at his most recent "body of work" since this is new CCS terminology referred to Trubisky. Perhaps Nagy tried to make a pocket QB out of him, and it didn't work out, now with the change he has come into his own? Some of the best QBs ever were turnover machines early in their careers. Why wouldn't you look for the positives? They are certainly there over the last few games no matter how much some like to scrutinize him. Imagine message board people saying "I want to evaluate based on the entire body of work". Relax a bit and maybe enjoy. Its only a game.
So if he can’t be a pocket passer isn’t that BECAUSE he isn’t accurate enough? Thank you for proving my point.
 

dennehy

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 29, 2015
Posts:
11,027
Liked Posts:
12,343
Location:
Jewels to get a case of Squirt
Are you implying escapability includes things like moving in the pocket? He doesn’t do that well either though.

He does. He was among the top few at this last year. This year not as much, largely because the OL was a total dumpster fire for 9 weeks and probably because Nagy had his head rattled a bit.

In no way am I saying that he is above average on the whole. But I think you're a bit wound up fighting with some of these weirdos. Close the computer/phone and study for some finals for a while.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,829
Liked Posts:
11,963
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
He does. He was among the top few at this last year. This year not as much, largely because the OL was a total dumpster fire for 9 weeks and probably because Nagy had his head rattled a bit.

In no way am I saying that he is above average on the whole. But I think you're a bit wound up fighting with some of these weirdos. Close the computer/phone and study for some finals for a while.
Lmao this is my study break. I’ll be gone in about 20-30 minutes.
 

Starion

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 29, 2012
Posts:
4,217
Liked Posts:
2,669
Location:
Fort Myers, FL
I would prefer to look at his entire body of work where he isn’t an accurate QB. Isn’t that smarter than looking at 2 fucking games?

Agreed. You make a counterpoint for me. There's been more than 2 games of successful play. Problem is consistency or lack thereof.

As OP mentioned, Mitch is not yet at the level to overcome personnel deficits in the OL & TE, let's pray Pace eats his mistakes & fixes them.

Not sure what else there is to argue about. Do we disagree about this?

Options:
1) Bring in a "better" QB (who might that honestly be? & high price to pay) Most/all appear to have lower ceilings, and arguably slightly higher floors)
2) Ride with Mitch + actually improve the OL & TEs
3) Fail with status quo (Massie, Shaheen, Burton, etc. get more snaps when healthy) HOPE NOT!! (Long & Gabriel will be gone regardless - cap). Toss Leno in this group despite still healthy (Charles "7-2 Offsuit" is consistently bad).
 

alexbear1

Active member
Joined:
Dec 18, 2013
Posts:
711
Liked Posts:
101
Agree on building a really strong OL to protect Trubisky better. One point note is OL play has clearly improved since Daniels and Whitehair swapped back to their previous positions from last year.

Make a serious effort to sign Scherff in FA to fill the RG slot. I like the idea of drafting Lucas Niang in the 2nd round but given Massie is unlikely to be going anywhere I think it likely more prudent to help fill other positions of need like EDGE (Terrell Lewis) and either CB (Bryce Hall) and TE (Brycen Hopkins). If either Dylan Moses (due to injury) or Raekwon Davies (down year) fall then they would also be quite hard to turn down.

If they're going all in on Trubisky then I wouldn't be spending big money on his backup. Either commit to him and spend the money elsewhere on resources to help him (like Scherff and possibly Hooper) or move on from him. It's unlikely we're winning the SB with a backup QB even if his name is Mariota who will still command reasonable money. If it's $5-7.5m a season for Mariota then sure that's perhaps interesting but if it was the difference between getting Scherff and another impact player I'd go for whoever Nagy likes in the draft and hope Nagy can coach him up.
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Nov 5, 2012
Posts:
4,300
Liked Posts:
2,527
Location:
NJ
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Penn State Nittany Lions
What’s the alternative? Let guys like Rodgers and Brady walk for the sake of having a better run game? That’s dumb. At the end of the day they want to get paid too, and they hold the entire organization and it’s future hostage at contract time.

What?
 

PeterMbangala

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 25, 2015
Posts:
2,747
Liked Posts:
1,391
Location:
Te Anau, NZ
Taking the premise of the OP that Mitch is the starter in 2020, rather than picking him apart again...

OL has to be the number one focus of the offseason. Leno and Massie are on huge contracts and I don't know that you can get away from either of them in 2020. You may as well use that and bring in some legit competition in the draft. We currently have picks 47 and 51 so we should be able to hit on a tackle in one of those spots. I know people talk about BPA but realistically, if we don’t draft a tackle with one of those two picks, we are riding again with Leno and Massie which I think would be a huge mistake.

I would be fully on board with making whatever roster moves are needed to bring Scherff into the building. We’ve seen what one guy can do to upgrade a unit in Indianapolis (albeit a generational talent) and I think Scherff could transform the mentality of that group. The Pats have to pay Shaq Mason this offseason and may be that Joe Thuney hits the market. He’s an extremely versatile interior piece that I would look at if Scherff gets too expensive.

It would leave us with Leno – Daniels – Whitehair – Scherff/Thuney – Massie as the week one starters with the option to get Massie the hell out of there as soon as the rookie is ready. That leaves you continuing to develop Bars, Coward and Lucas with maybe another late round pick filling out the depth.

The injury to Hicks is a reminder that he is 30 years old and has 113 games under his belt. We knew how good he was last year but there’s nothing like an enforced absence to really understand how crucial he is to the defense. He takes that side of the ball from top 10 and solid to a destructive turnover machine.

Point is that the window is closing with him and Mack. We need a starter at TE that can start week 1 and produce immediately. I know we are a little wary of Ebron from his time in Detroit but I think you have to take a run at him, Henry, Hooper or Jarwin – that sort of calibre. Again, we have Burton on another big Pace contract that we can’t get away from and Shaheen is the worst player Pace has drafted, so that group will be eating a ton of cap space. And I know that Holtz and Horsted showed a little life against the Cowboys. But you absolutely cannot go in to 2020 with Burton, Holtz, Horsted and Braunecker as your TE group.

As for the rest of the roster, you have another second-round pick which you can spend on whatever you like really (CB to replace Prince, WR is a deep group despite not being a position of need, edge is a need, take your pick). Crucial he hits on this too.

I’m not sure what he does with Floyd right now. Another big decision he has to weigh up. I could go either way.

This is Pace’s broad roadmap to success and keeping his job in my opinion. He has to pray that Hicks and Mack can generate enough pressure and stay healthy to cover the defense maybe taking another little step back so that the resources can be switched to the offense. He needs Roquan and Jackson to become more consistent playmakers. It’s a tightrope and a lot of things have to go right on the defensive side of the ball but he doesn’t survive another season where the offense is 28th in the league so he better make it happen.
 

Mdbearz

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 9, 2014
Posts:
4,513
Liked Posts:
3,219
Location:
Harford County, MD
Without a doubt the trenches are where we need help. However, I tend to think that we have a couple of pieces in place that can improve with better coaching.... The drop off that we saw with this line is directly related to scheme and coaching.

Both Massie and Leno were progressing before Harry came to town.... He did the same frikin thing last time he was here.

With that being said, I think you can take the best Tackle or Guard available in the second round and I would be ok with that. I'm not sure you can fix it all this year, but you should be drafting O-line every year!!
 

dabears70

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 31, 2013
Posts:
33,792
Liked Posts:
-1,055
Location:
Orlando
My favorite teams
  1. New York Mets
  1. New York Knicks
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. New York Rangers
  1. Syracuse Orange
Actually the Chicago Bears did. I want to know what Mitchell David Trubisky does as an individual at an above average level.

Holy fuck you're annoying as hell. How bout shut the fuck up cause nobody cares that you're asking over and over and over again about what Mitch does great. Your QB doesn't have to do anything great to win.
 

Briggs is GOAT

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 14, 2013
Posts:
16,979
Liked Posts:
13,178
Location:
Los Angeles CA
As a QB you do. I do too. He’s not really great at anything and your QB needs to do *something* really well to build on. Can anybody actually tell me what he does at an above average level? And don’t say his legs because he doesn’t use them enough.
Over the course of his career he HAS used them enough, he hasn't used them enough this season but maybe that will change.

He's also above average at making throws on the run and making plays outside the pocket.
 

Briggs is GOAT

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 14, 2013
Posts:
16,979
Liked Posts:
13,178
Location:
Los Angeles CA
So if he can’t be a pocket passer isn’t that BECAUSE he isn’t accurate enough? Thank you for proving my point.
No, it's because that isn't his game.

Trubisky has been a big, strong, athletic guy relative to his age for his whole life. He has played the QB position as a guy who moves and runs around a lot, he's never played as a traditional pocket passer. A lot of great QBs don't play that way either.
 

WindyCity

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
Posts:
30,816
Liked Posts:
35,721
I would prefer to look at his entire body of work where he isn’t an accurate QB. Isn’t that smarter than looking at 2 fucking games?

I do not think anyone is talking about him being an elite QB like the guys you are talking about.

I think we are talking about elevating him to the Cousins, Dak, Jimmy G level. Those guys do not have any one ability that is above average or unique, but they have enough in all areas to be effective when supported and well coached.
 

WindyCity

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
Posts:
30,816
Liked Posts:
35,721
Are you implying escapability includes things like moving in the pocket? He doesn’t do that well either though.

Based on his body of work he does. He was exceptional at it last year. Made our OL look better than it was and got Massie paid.
 

msadows

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
22,106
Liked Posts:
16,809
Build a team around a guy who’s supposed to make everyone around him better but doesn’t.

Awful idea imo.

No one better.

Just because it ain't mitch, don't mean its any better.

And no, Dalton is NOT better.
 

Luke

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 25, 2016
Posts:
2,146
Liked Posts:
1,514
I want to see Pace not count on Burton to be healthy in 2020. Make him a post 6/1 cut, save almost 3mil and sign the best FA TE that you can. This is a TE centric system, cant gamble on Burton to be healthy.
 

Top