Will the Cubs celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 1969 season with another 2nd half collapse?

CRM 114

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I think it would be a fitting way to commenrate one of the most infamous seasons in Cubs history. It also would allow the Cubs to get rid of Ol’ Joe and maybe even Theo n Jed and get some people who actually know what they’re doing in place.

That’s Cub!

Everybody out

Let’s go!
 

Polak

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4th best team in the Central. Theo is a joke and now that his uncle is getting locked up maybe he will shift his focus to the Cubs instead of whatever underground trade they had going.
 

Chief Walking Stick

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4th best team in the Central. Theo is a joke and now that his uncle is getting locked up maybe he will shift his focus to the Cubs instead of whatever underground trade they had going.

Reported for slander
 

anotheridiot

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That would be cool, it would mean they would be going on a historic run to build up a big lead heading into september.
 

JP Hochbaum

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The 1969 Cubs didn't have a second half collapse. The Mets played at a pace that was unbeatable.
 

CRM 114

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The 1969 Cubs didn't have a second half collapse. The Mets played at a pace that was unbeatable.

Yes they did. They were 84-52 after September 2nd and proceeded to go 8-18 after that. That is what you call a collapse.
 

CSF77

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Chicago_Cubs_season

With further expansion to the league, the 1969 season marked the first year of divisional play in Major League Baseball. The Atlanta Braves (along with the Cincinnati Reds) were placed in the NL West division, despite being located further east than the 2 westernmost teams in the NL East Division, the Cubs and St. Louis Cardinals. This was because the New York Mets wanted to be in the same division as the reigning power in the NL, which was the Cardinals at the time (to compensate for playing against the Dodgers and Giants fewer times each season). The Cubs consequently demanded to be in the NL East as well in order to continue playing in the same division as the Cardinals, one of the Cubs' biggest rivals. A side effect of this alignment is that it set the stage for what is considered one of the greatest pennant races – and comebacks in such a race – in MLB history.


Hoping to improve on the previous year's 84–78 record, the Cubs began the 1969 season by winning 11 of their first 12 games, and on August 16, they were 75–44, up by a season high nine games over second place New York. By September 2, they had soared to an 84–52 record, well on pace to exceed the previous season's mark, but their lead over the Mets had fallen to five games. From there the Mets went on a tear. The Cubs ultimately lost 17 of the last 25 games of the season, while the Mets went 23–7 to overtake the Cubs and finish eight games ahead of them. It was one of the most astounding late season collapses in history, with the seventeen-game turnaround being one of the biggest ever. The Cubs finished 92–70, while the Mets won the National League East and would go on to win the World Series.




The Fall[edit]
After the game of September 2, the Cubs' record was 84–52 with the Mets in second place at 77–55. But then a losing streak began just as a Mets winning streak was beginning. The Cubs lost the final game of a series at Cincinnati, then came home to play the resurgent Pittsburgh Pirates (who would finish in third place). After losing the first two games by scores of 9–2 and 13–4, the Cubs led going into the ninth inning in the series finale. A win would be a positive springboard since the Cubs were to play a crucial series with the Mets the very next day. But Willie Stargell drilled a 2-out, 2-strike pitch from the Cubs' ace reliever, Phil Regan, onto Sheffield Avenue to tie the score in the top of the ninth. The Cubs would lose 7–5 in extra innings.[6] Meanwhile, the Mets had taken two of three against Philadelphia over the same weekend.
Burdened by a four-game losing streak, the Cubs traveled to Shea Stadium on September 8 for a short two-game set. The Mets won both games, and the Cubs left New York with a record of 84–58 just 1⁄2 game in front. Disaster followed in Philadelphia, as a 99-loss Phillies team nonetheless defeated the Cubs twice, to extend Chicago's losing streak to eight games. In a key play in the second game, on September 11, Cubs starter Dick Selma threw a surprise pickoff attempt to third baseman Ron Santo, who was nowhere near the bag or the ball. Selma's throwing error opened the gates to a Phillies rally.
After that second Philly loss, the Cubs were 84–60 and the Mets had pulled ahead at 85–57. The Mets would not look back. The Cubs' eight-game losing streak finally ended the next day in St. Louis, but the Mets were in the midst of a ten-game winning streak, and the Cubs, wilting from team fatigue, generally deteriorated in all phases of the game.[1] The Mets (who had lost a record 120 games in their inaugural season 7 years earlier), would go on to win the World Series. The Cubs, despite a respectable 92–70 record, would be remembered for having lost a remarkable 17 1⁄2 games in the standings to the Mets in the last quarter of the season.
Bad luck[edit]
Some superstitious fans attribute the Cubs collapse to an incident at Shea Stadium: A black cat (an omen of bad luck) walked behind the Cubs' on-deck circle where captain Ron Santo was standing.[7] Some fans blame key errors by center fielder Don Youngand Santo's immediate criticism. According to Santo, "At no time did I give the impression, let alone a direct quote, that Don Young cost us the ballgame".[8] Banks stated, however, that after an error by Young, Santo "went crazy. Young was so upset, he ran out ... I had never seen something so hurtful". According to Banks, "They say one apple can spoil the whole barrel, and I saw that", with the incident dividing the team into factions.[7] Still others blame the number of day games that the Cubs had to play. (Lights were not installed in Wrigley Field until 1988.) Chicago's summers are quite humid (85–90 degrees Fahrenheit on average), and playing in this heat day after day may have taken a toll (although the average temperature that summer was 71.8 degrees, which was relatively low).[9] From August 14 through the end of the season, the Mets had an amazing 38–11 record,[10] while the Cubs record was 18–27 for the same period, slumping to 8–17 in September and 9–18 for September and October.[11]
The Book Baseball Hall of Shame 2 places the blame squarely (and perhaps unfairly) at the feet of one man, stating, "In the heat of battle, Leo Durocher, field general of the Cubs, went AWOL once too often. It was because of his lack of leadership that his team lost the fight for the 1969 pennant." Durocher did not believe in using the platoon system. He believed in putting his best eight players on the field every day.[12] Five of the Cubs' regular players finished the season with over 150 games played.[13] Two more had more than 130 games played.[13] In his book, The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, baseball historian Bill James cited manager Durocher's method of using his regular players everyday without any rest days as a factor in the Cubs' collapse.[14]
Overuse of the pitching staff may have played a part. During the first 118 games (74–43 record on August 13), the Cubs averaged about 4.7 runs a game and gave up only 3.5 runs per game, a 1.2 run per game advantage over the opposition. The last 45 games (18–27 record) saw a major reversal, with 3.7 runs per game for the team and 4.5 runs per game for the opposition (average Cub score would be a negative −0.8 runs per game versus opponents, almost a complete reversal from earlier play). Both the hitters and pitchers may have wilted as the season wound down.
 

CSF77

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That is pretty messed up.

"In the heat of battle, Leo Durocher, field general of the Cubs, went AWOL once too often.

Durocher's method of using his regular players everyday without any rest days as a factor in the Cubs' collapse.[14]

So hypocritical. I can take time off but you bums get out there.
 

CSF77

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Well I don't think that will be the case. Joe would lose by tossing out bench scrubs too much.
 

JP Hochbaum

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Yes they did. They were 84-52 after September 2nd and proceeded to go 8-18 after that. That is what you call a collapse.
And the Mets went 23-7. Had the Cubs gone 16-10 it would have been a tie, they big losing streak just made it look like a collapse. When even a .615 win percentage there last 26 games would have resulted in a Mets division win. Yes the Cubs collapsed, but the Mets would have won regardless.
 

CSF77

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This wouldn't be news on most teams. This holds the same water as the ball between Buckner's legs.

At that time both teams were in droughts and both blew it. But every year there is a team that blows it to one degree to another for various reasons. The sweep in 2008 was far worse. Going in they were the best team and got spanked badly. Then torn apart right after.

The 69 Cubs are famous because the Cubs sucked for years after. But that is on the owners not willing to put talent on the field because the park would sell out anyways.
 

Rory Sparrow

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This wouldn't be news on most teams. This holds the same water as the ball between Buckner's legs.

At that time both teams were in droughts and both blew it. But every year there is a team that blows it to one degree to another for various reasons.

Yeah, every year a team is up 5-3 in the 10th needing one more out to win the WS only to lose the game on an error by the 1B. Buckner's error was 'newsworthy' only because it was the Red Sox. It wouldn't have been news on most teams.
 

CSF77

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Yeah, every year a team is up 5-3 in the 10th needing one more out to win the WS only to lose the game on an error by the 1B. Buckner's error was 'newsworthy' only because it was the Red Sox. It wouldn't have been news on most teams.

How about Bucky Dent's HR over the wall at Fenway. That Yankee team came back on the Red Sox and ended up WS champs.

That is why this is selective memory.

Goats, black cats, fan interface and all of the BS that has been marked up by Cubs fans.

The reality is the Cubs were run like crap from a ownership down. When Theo took over he overhauled a dated team and made them into what they always should have been.

All of the excuses are crap. The reality is if you build a organization to win every year then these little human errors do not become magnified.

1969 was made bigger due to a drought until 1984.
1984 was a collapse also. SD should have been beat.
2003 they collapsed and it took 5 years to get back.
2008 was a collapse. That led to a team sell and a sell off.

Why is it only 1969 is this big deal then? 15 year gap? Or the fact that the Trib sucked as owners? Dallas Green was the only good thing to happen in this era. Up that ended the day that the Tribune decided to let Greg Madux hit F/A.

The Red Sox at least went to the Series a few times. They were in a tough division. But they were always built to win. Unlike the Cubs who were built to turn a profit and gain advertising on WGN.
 

modo

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Is thread for real?

I am still trying to wrap my head around how the Cubs 69 collapse wasn't really a collapse. It only looked like a collapse because they last so many games.....
 

CSF77

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Is thread for real?

I am still trying to wrap my head around how the Cubs 69 collapse wasn't really a collapse. It only looked like a collapse because they last so many games.....

They ended up with 92 wins. Mets went red hot at the end and won 100 games.

Baseball is a momentum sport and even if the Cubs would have hit .500 they would have came up short.

The Cubs starters were playing day games in humid weather and they burned out.

The Mets were playing under the lights is preferable conditions.

Many forget about the home field disadvantage the Cubs held
 

modo

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They ended up with 92 wins. Mets went red hot at the end and won 100 games.

Baseball is a momentum sport and even if the Cubs would have hit .500 they would have came up short.

The Cubs starters were playing day games in humid weather and they burned out.

The Mets were playing under the lights is preferable conditions.

Many forget about the home field disadvantage the Cubs held

You are trying to justify too much.....the Mets played great ball, yes but the Cubs absolutely wilted down the stretch.
 

CSF77

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You are trying to justify too much.....the Mets played great ball, yes but the Cubs absolutely wilted down the stretch.

I really don't care about it myself. But those opinions were by paid experts.

The only exception that I take is the knuckle head response of they wilted. With out looking at all of the factors involved.

Like I said. 1984 bothered me more. They were up 2-0 and let SD shit on them.
 

JP Hochbaum

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They ended up with 92 wins. Mets went red hot at the end and won 100 games.

Baseball is a momentum sport and even if the Cubs would have hit .500 they would have came up short.

The Cubs starters were playing day games in humid weather and they burned out.

The Mets were playing under the lights is preferable conditions.

Many forget about the home field disadvantage the Cubs held
People are really missing the point, that no matter how good the Cubs would have done the Mets were likely winning that division.
 

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