Chris Simms on Trubisky

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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It is clear to everyone Mitch is not a franchise QB that can evelate himself and the guys around him.

I am just saying Nagy treated him like he was as if he recognized Mitch sucked then you dont have him throw it 40 or 50 times.

I suspect those times he was more saying to Pace: "Mitch is not the one. He is not able to take over and elevate the offense when it gets stuck. And no, he is not ready to become that anytime soon. He needs good balance and needs plays where his first maybe second read is open and the only way to make sure is to design first reads open and hope to God we can do that consistently. This offense needs a new QB. Out of all the ones up for movement in the offseason, I like Nick Foles".

But all of this is pure speculation on my part ... and definitely gives a lot of credit and benfit of doubt to Nagy that while I think may be possibly true,... I do not fully believe to the core of my being.
 

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I get the whole idea of developing a game plan around the strengths of your players, but when your QB gets hurt running and that is his biggest strength, then you are screwed.

I am not giving Nagy a free pass but Trubisky is not a good QB, period.

Didn't Vick have an injury shortened career? You go with what you have. Either way you're screwed early and looking for another QB sooner than you hoped.
One of the few injuries Vick suffered, took place in the pocket
 

SugarWalls

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I tend to agree with this. But I also think Nagy becomes this way when he loses faith in his players (that is no defense. He still SHOULDN'T get that way regardless of who is under center or kicking FGs etc).

If he doesn't change - or cannot change - this next Black Monday, the bell tolls for him imo. And I will understand it fully.

There's definitely reason to have given up and lost faith in Trubisky.... however what I saw year 1 was people wide the fuck open. Like I can't throw a football but there's a chance if I made the read I could've made the throw they were that wide open.

What I saw last year was people that were 'NFL open' as in guys that Trubisky should've hit but could not. I saw a team that could not run the ball because TE's and OL were running into each other, or just not blocking in general. I saw routes where WR's were 3ft apart from each other. Seemed like other teams knew exactly what is coming. I'm no NFL grade scout but to me it seemed "trestman-esque' in that year 1 EVERYTHING worked, and year 2 NOTHING worked. That definitely falls on coaching and Nagy sits atop that tree.
 
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As well as Mitch can run, he still looks tentative doing it. Makes you wonder how good of an athlete he could be with better awareness. I said early on that he didn't seem the sharpest pencil in the box but it doesn't always relate to field play. So far it has.:(
I remember watching a few RPO plays on '100Proof webshow' that displays how Mitch sometimes badly misreads whether he should keep or hand off the ball.

Even when playing to players' strengths, plays still fail sometimes, cause on any play players may make some mistakes, defense gets lucky, or is just better.

Mitch apparently is not (yet) skilled enough at reading the defense. That doesn't mean you stop RPO, it just means he needs to study and practice it more. (Or chg the QB.)

Schemes/plays based on the your players' strengths means you have a better chance against an opponent, even if they know what play you're doing -- specifically on offense, because you get to make the first move. Once the players are practiced at plays accenting their strengths, you can disguise and misdirect to gain additional edges.
 
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remydat

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Yeah I mentioned during the season how badly Mitch fucks up the option plays. Honestly I feel like a 9th grader who plays Madden a few hours a week could do a better job. There are examples of Mitch looking right at his defensive read on an option where the defensive player sells out too soon and Mitch still chooses the option that the defensive player made. Truly baffling stuff.
 

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Nagy needs to pretend Mitch is black and maybe he will realize that he is a running QB that can occassionally make a great pass.

Seems Nagy thinks Mitch's whiteness means he is supposed to be a pocket QB despite all evidence to the contrary.












P.S. The intent was not for the above to be taken seriously.

He shouldnt be running an RPO more than 4 times a game. For him its there to keep defenses honest not to run as the identity of the offense.

Roll outs, designed qb runs, deep go scrambles, play action, reverse field calls and tge rest standard shotgun or under center playscalls.
 

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Mitchel Trubisky >>> Chris Simms. Simms gets too much notice for not being the deepest thinker in the room that had a career 69 rating and continually blames his spleen for his failings.
 

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Why are people regurgitating that Nagy told or forced Mitch not to run Cohen said in an interview that was his own doing and the coaches were actually telling him to use his legs more.

This concerns me as much as anything else. QBs can often overcome there lack of early conceptualizing a scheme but they rarely grow balls at this age. There's a couple things that could explain it. Mitch trying to become a good read QB from a pocket on his own or being worried about his injury taking him out but in either scenario, talk to your coaches. It looked like he went from escape artist in 2018 to deer in headlights in 2019.
 

Chris Sojka

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This concerns me as much as anything else. QBs can often overcome there lack of early conceptualizing a scheme but they rarely grow balls at this age. There's a couple things that could explain it. Mitch trying to become a good read QB from a pocket on his own or being worried about his injury taking him out but in either scenario, talk to your coaches. It looked like he went from escape artist in 2018 to deer in headlights in 2019.

Hes not fast for fucks sake. He's above average elusive for a QB, hes above average fast for a QB, hes above average acceleration and hes above average agile. All this means nothing unless the play breaks down and he finds a good amount of space.

He either needs designed runs behind a lead blocker or he needs to scramble and create. The RPO where hes flat footed is for elite acceleration elite speed QBs who are faster than 90% of the defensive ends they play. Mitch might be faster than 30% of those guys if that.

The sport is more complex than what people make it out to be.
 

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Hes not fast for fucks sake. He's above average elusive for a QB, hes above average fast for a QB, hes above average acceleration and hes above average agile. All this means nothing unless the play breaks down and he finds a good amount of space.

He either needs designed runs behind a lead blocker or he needs to scramble and create. The RPO where hes flat footed is for elite acceleration elite speed QBs who are faster than 90% of the defensive ends they play. Mitch might be faster than 30% of those guys if that.

The sport is more complex than what people make it out to be.
So you're saying there's no issue with his pocket decisions. OK(y)
 
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Bearly

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Sugarwalls, would you rather have had Chris Simms at QB? Do you think him a great evaluator of talent? His opinion is no better than anyone else's.

Ultimately, the Browns might be scared that the New York Jets could take Mitchell Trubisky at No. 6, so I think they pull the trigger on the trade. Cleveland gets its quarterback and the Titans get extra draft capital—it's a win-win.
The Browns could win this draft by making this move.

#31. Watson.
 
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Bearly

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Last 2 respondents think I'm too soft and too hard on Mitch. I must be doing something right. :p
 
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Chris Sojka

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So you're saying there's no issue with his pocket decisions. OK(y)

Where on earth did i say he makes great decisions in the pocket? I simply said if you are going to give him the option to run you should do it by rolling him out. Because his feet are already moving and he can accelerate to top speed if he see's a hole and get solid yards. Something he can't do from the pocket or out of the RPO. Also his decision making is average and his accuracy is average too. It looks awful because the offensive line is bad and the playcaller calls 10 screens a game and 15 RPOs.

He can have 30 completions for 180 yards sometimes, but again they are gimmick plays that go for no YAC. The truth is you don't have the time for plays to develop downfield and no QB would have confidence in this o-line being able to hold up for 5 seconds consistently to make those plays. Also you had 1 proven talent on the offense last year. Allen Robinson.

It's because you watch Chicago Bears football and not the rest of the NFL that you fail to realize the dedication and commitment other teams play to helping their QB.

Tom Brady the GOAT left because he lacked help and signed with a team that gives him tons of it. Brees continues to get WRs in the draft. Atlanta never stopped trying to help Matt Ryan. Dallas continues to spend on offensive weapons and protection for Dak. Mahommes walked into a perfect situation in KC and made it even better. Watson just lost his best weapon on offense. So lets see how much better they are without him.

It's only when you look at the Bears that you do a player by player comparison and realize that with the investment the Bears put into offense they would likely be in the bottom 10 of the league in offense every year. Had they not taken Graham away from GB to hurt them and taken Kmet to help the QB moving into the future you'd be looking at the exact same results heading into next season.

Robinson is amazing yes. He's one guy.

Anthony Miller is the definition of unproven potential. Nobody but bears fans give a fuck about the small flashes he makes. He has to make some good plays and a great play every Sunday just to be considered a good starter in the league.

The Bears invested in Graham and Kmet on offense and took a bunch of O linemen who've busted in other programs to help fix this offense.

You are looking at a top 20 offense this year, top 15 if we're really lucky. Quote me on that.
 

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And if all that's true, which it is, Mitch still looked worse with his feet and decisions than he should have last year. He passed up opportunities to run with little contact. He ran OB behind the line instead of throwing it OB to save a couple yards. He made poor reads and didn't throw enough one on ones. When they did run the roll option, he didn't sell it or even keep moving. He simply looked like a deer in headlights last year. Yes, he could have looked better if they constantly rolled him with 1/2 a field to throw to but that's not a long term answer and shouldn't be required at this level. You are also guaranteeing more and harder hits on a bad shoulder. Not really the thing to do. The coaches had issue with his lack of opportunistic running. No one wanted to make him a RB.

I haven't given up on him either but he was a disappointment last year and I'm not being harsh. He looked to regress and the line looked worse, partially, because he didn't save their asses like he did in 2018. Even his coaches said they didn't understand why he played so immobile and then they bring in Foles with a known opportunity to start. They see the same.

Unlike others here, I do understand the rebuild was D 1st and we've had stopgaps and lack of quality depth on O but that doesn't change what happened at QB.

I'm thinking you're right on the ranking but it doesn't change a thing about what I actually posted.
 
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Chris Sojka

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And if all that's true, which it is, Mitch still looked worse with his feet and decisions than he should have last year. He passed up opportunities to run with little contact. He ran OB behind the line instead of throwing it OB to save a couple yards. He made poor reads and didn't throw enough one on ones. When they did run the roll option, he didn't sell it or even keep moving. He simply looked like a deer in headlights last year. Yes, he could have looked better if they constantly rolled him with 1/2 a field to throw to but that's not a long term answer and shouldn't be required at this level. You are also guaranteeing more and harder hits on a bad shoulder. Not really the thing to do. The coaches had issue with his lack of opportunistic running. No one wanted to make him a RB.

I haven't given up on him either but he was a disappointment last year and I'm not being harsh. He looked to regress and the line looked worse, partially, because he didn't save their asses like he did in 2018. Even his coaches said they didn't understand why he played so immobile and then they bring in Foles with a known opportunity to start. They see the same.

Unlike others here, I do understand the rebuild was D 1st and we've had stopgaps and lack of quality depth on O but that doesn't change what happened at QB.

I'm thinking you're right on the ranking but it doesn't change a thing about what I actually posted.

I agree... Mitch has become part of the problem. He can't understand from where he sits why the offense doesn't run well. So he naturally blames himself. He obviously feels the criticism coming from the National media whose job it is to berate any QB that struggles as the sole reason an offense isn't any good and hasn't handled that well. He is now second guessing himself in the offense and that's moslty because it doesn't make sense. The thing he can't figure out is if he doesn't make sense in the system or the system doesn't fit the offense.

The reality is.. NOTHING WORKS. So Mitch should really go off the cuff... take control of the offense...audible as much as he wants out of bad playcalls and make shit happen this year... Because Nagy isn't helping this guy. If Nagy gets the shot to pick his QB we will hear all the same excuses, "He's young, Its a new offense, It takes time, We've got to execute better."

We wanted some minor growth. We got major regression in every area. Most drops, horseshit run game, worst TE production in modern history, and horseshit OL play.

Now the QB can be to blame for none of this. Which is actually about 60% of what makes an offense successful. 40% is probably good or bad decision making and accuracy from your QB.
 

Chris Sojka

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I remember watching a few RPO plays on '100Proof webshow' that displays how Mitch sometimes badly misreads whether he should keep or hand off the ball.

Even when playing to players' strengths, plays still fail sometimes, cause on any play players may make some mistakes, defense gets lucky, or is just better.

Mitch apparently is not (yet) skilled enough at reading the defense. That doesn't mean you stop RPO, it just means he needs to study and practice it more. (Or chg the QB.)

Schemes/plays based on the your players' strengths means you have a better chance against an opponent, even if they know what play you're doing -- specifically on offense, because you get to make the first move. Once the players are practiced at plays accenting their strengths, you can disguise and misdirect to gain additional edges.

Mitch is not fast enough and doesn't accelerate fast enough to run an RPO style offense. He's just not capable. He knows this. defense's around the league know this. Everyone except select bears fans and Matt Nagy know this I guess. He should play in a traditional offense. Run for success and PA off of it. He should be in the shotgun 50% of the passing plays and under center the other 50%. The RPO should only come into play when defensive ends completely start disrespecting his legs and start biting down on the running game super hard.

This isn't fucking rocket science... It's totally obvious what must be done to salvage the QB and the offense. If Nagy wants to waste this year running "His offense" thereby deflecting blame onto the QB so he has a shot to get "his guy" in the draft then goodluck with that.

This is the ultimate team sport and only idiots blame the QB everytime an offense sucks.

Jason Garrett was the perfect example of what we are getting here in Chicago. A coach who just can't get his system to work. All that asshole in Dallas had to do was run the ball with Zeke and let Dak run and throw. He lost his job running an offense that didn't fit the QB.
 

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Of course Mitch is fast enough to run an RPO. Stop with that. You may not want to but my God, If Mitch isn't fast enough, no one is. There are only 2 starting QBs a tenth or more faster than Mitch. Jackson and Wilson. Mitch is within 1/100th or the margin of error of Watson. There are no other starters that are faster than those 4. If Mitch isn't fast enough, it's just not a viable O. That doesn't address the question of whether you should run it in the NFL but his speed is not the issue. I don't care if he runs an rpo and really, RPO doesn't mean he has to ever carry the ball. I think you mean more of an normal college type option which I don't like for the NFL anyway but honestly Chris, I don't know who you've been watching these last 3 years.

Did Mitch have adversity this year beyond his own making? Of course he did but he did the opposite of elevating those around him by instilling confidence. He's not there yet and last year, he kinda wilted under pressure. Nobody is excusing the disaster O that Nagy ran but your QB should be able to pull something out his ass, even if it's out of frustration, now and then. He did it a lot in 2018. Not so much in 2019. It's actually kind of baffling and I initially considered that the avoidance of mobility had to do with the staff limiting hits but once you hear that wasn't the case...
 
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SugarWalls

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Sugarwalls, would you rather have had Chris Simms at QB? Do you think him a great evaluator of talent? His opinion is no better than anyone else's.

Ultimately, the Browns might be scared that the New York Jets could take Mitchell Trubisky at No. 6, so I think they pull the trigger on the trade. Cleveland gets its quarterback and the Titans get extra draft capital—it's a win-win.
The Browns could win this draft by making this move.

#31. Watson.

He’s been wrong just like everyone else in their life has.

If a former NFL QB is not allowed to have a valid opinion on QB’s then who the fuck is???? Please enlighten me on how this guy with years of experience playing, having been coached in NE, can’t have an opinion.

you trust beat writers? You trust other sources. Why does your opinion matter.
 

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