Elephant in the room, Nagy

[smilebit]

Nagy has to prove he can run the offence with Dalton for a year before he ever gets the chance to utilise Fields - it should determine whether he has the talent to be around the kid when he eventually breaks into the team.

Dalton won't last the season before it gets to hot, Fields will get trotted out after 4 games because Dalton will either get hurt or will look just like old giraffe neck behind this line.

 

[thenewguy]

Short answer is no.

Nagy's incompetence goes way beyond QB development. His play designs, inability to create WR space, playcalling, late time getting the plays in , clock management, lack of adjustments in game and game to game are not solved by a rookie QB. Hell, he couldn't even do it with a veteran like Foles getting on his ass about it.

The bull elephant in the room is how long will Pace or McCaskey allow Nagy to jeopardize JFF's development.

You forgot his criminal misuse of personnel(i.e., Coward, Whitehair, Patterson, Cohen, etc.)

If Nagy gave up play calling, he could improve as a HC, but he just can't help himself.

The only potential saving grace is Fields has the skillset to force a defense to defend the entire field, and can run Nagy's preferred RPO scheme. That really could open up a lot for the offense.

 

[KennyH]

Dalton won't last the season before it gets to hot, Fields will get trotted out after 4 games because Dalton will either get hurt or will look just like old giraffe neck behind this line.

I don't think there is any chance they rush Fields into starting - Pace said as much in his presser.

Dalton is a far better QB than Glennon, and he'll be a good mentor for Fields. Nagy went through this with Mahomes and the one thing I think he fully understands is the need to let a young QB develop behind a vet.

And having Fields sit, probably extends both Nagy and Paces contract by another year - so it would be counter productive to push him in as it would more likely lose him his job than to save it.

 

[Montucky]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but Charles Leno Jr. will just make a guy like Justin Fields who is in his early twenties and built like a brick shithouse life miserable. Andy Dalton on the other won't last more than a couple games with Leno Jr. on the blindside though, and unless the plan is to put Nick Foles back in there to soak more hits it'll be Justin Fields' time much sooner than the Bears want.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Honestly? I don't think most of the people who shit on Nagy completely understand what the hell they are talking about - like bitching that a mechanic didn't fix a car that won't go, when the issue is that the car is out of gas.


Here's what I know about Matt Nagy during the Mitch Trubisky era -
For the first 2 years, he stuck to his scheme and would not give up play calling duties. This is the end of what people who HAVEN'T been paying attention, including some major sports media people, of what they know about Matt Nagy because they never looked at it more closely.

However, I did.

The reason Matt was likely hesitant to give up play calling duties, is that his system is designed to scheme WRs open, and when you look at the tape - WRs WERE GETTING OPEN.... LIKE ALL THE DAMN TIME.

So, the scheme itself actually was WORKING. BUT!!!

There were 2 elements that were causing it to fail.

One - The offensive line consistently couldn't figure out who to block. They were often blocking the wrong guy. Lazy thinking is "DUR, THE OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS!" But the thing is, it is wholly on the CENTER to make calls at the line and let the rest of the line know their blocking assignment on a given play.

And Cody Whitehair sucked ASS at it. James Daniels, in his brief stint there, wasn't much better and was often too quiet for anyone on the line to even hear him.

So this didn't get solved until Sam Mustipher got a shot, and was making the right line calls. All of a sudden, the line started playing a LOT better. Because the issue was the line calls. And now you have everyone back at the positions they should be at coming into 2021 so this shouldn't be an issue going forward. Want to blame that on Nagy for not knowing? Sure, I'm here for you on that one. But that doesn't mean his system is broken - this is a talent evaluation issue.


Two - Remember when I said receivers were getting open all day? Even when the offensive line COULD sustain a block with Whitehair at center, guess who was completely NOT SEEING the open recievers?

Good ole Mitch.

They spent 2 and a half years trying to get Mitch to actually go through his progressions and accurately SEE the open receivers...and the kid was a dumb as a box of rocks and couldn't do it. THAT was why they finally gave up and gave the kid a system he could run in the end of last season - but as anyone saw once they played better defenses, that simple system was NOT going to do anything but bum-slay in the NFL.

So the issue here was Nagy did indeed get stuck with a quarterback who was too stupid to make a read. That will make ANYONE look bad.


So now that the O-Line is stabilized and if Fields (or in the interim, Dalton) CAN make at least half those reads Mitch did not?

Suddenly the offense is going to look a LOT better, and Nagy by comparison.

And given the scuttlebutt is Fields was a Nagy pick, we are ALL about to find out what Nagy really can do - no more excuses now.

 

[modo]

Honestly? I don't think most of the people who shit on Nagy completely understand what the hell they are talking about - like bitching that a mechanic didn't fix a car that won't go, when the issue is that the car is out of gas.


Here's what I know about Matt Nagy during the Mitch Trubisky era -
For the first 2 years, he stuck to his scheme and would not give up play calling duties. This is the end of what people who HAVEN'T been paying attention, including some major sports media people, of what they know about Matt Nagy because they never looked at it more closely.

However, I did.

The reason Matt was likely hesitant to give up play calling duties, is that his system is designed to scheme WRs open, and when you look at the tape - WRs WERE GETTING OPEN.... LIKE ALL THE DAMN TIME.

So, the scheme itself actually was WORKING. BUT!!!

There were 2 elements that were causing it to fail.

One - The offensive line consistently couldn't figure out who to block. They were often blocking the wrong guy. Lazy thinking is "DUR, THE OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS!" But the thing is, it is wholly on the CENTER to make calls at the line and let the rest of the line know their blocking assignment on a given play.

And Cody Whitehair sucked ASS at it. James Daniels, in his brief stint there, wasn't much better and was often too quiet for anyone on the line to even hear him.

So this didn't get solved until Sam Mustipher got a shot, and was making the right line calls. All of a sudden, the line started playing a LOT better. Because the issue was the line calls. And now you have everyone back at the positions they should be at coming into 2021 so this shouldn't be an issue going forward. Want to blame that on Nagy for not knowing? Sure, I'm here for you on that one. But that doesn't mean his system is broken - this is a talent evaluation issue.


Two - Remember when I said receivers were getting open all day? Even when the offensive line COULD sustain a block with Whitehair at center, guess who was completely NOT SEEING the open recievers?

Good ole Mitch.

They spent 2 and a half years trying to get Mitch to actually go through his progressions and accurately SEE the open receivers...and the kid was a dumb as a box of rocks and couldn't do it. THAT was why they finally gave up and gave the kid a system he could run in the end of last season - but as anyone saw once they played better defenses, that simple system was NOT going to do anything but bum-slay in the NFL.

So the issue here was Nagy did indeed get stuck with a quarterback who was too stupid to make a read. That will make ANYONE look bad.


So now that the O-Line is stabilized and if Fields (or in the interim, Dalton) CAN make at least half those reads Mitch did not?

Suddenly the offense is going to look a LOT better, and Nagy by comparison.

And given the scuttlebutt is Fields was a Nagy pick, we are ALL about to find out what Nagy really can do - no more excuses now.

There is more to go on than just seeing a crap offense.

He is a stubborn bastard that feels compelled to run plays because they are on the list.

He seems to be inflexible during games, as evident with the stalled drive where he and Foles clashed. Also his inflexibility even during the year. in '19 he refused to dial up play action which seemed to be working when they used it....

Players on offense were making ridiculous mistakes of being out of place.

He could(nt) get the most out of any QB that started for the Bears during his tenure.


I think there is reason for concern.

 

[thenewguy]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but Charles Leno Jr. will just make a guy like Justin Fields who is in his early twenties and built like a brick shithouse life miserable. Andy Dalton on the other won't last more than a couple games with Leno Jr. on the blindside though, and unless the plan is to put Nick Foles back in there to soak more hits it'll be Justin Fields' time much sooner than the Bears want.

You are beating a dead horse, then shooting it, then burying it, digging it up and beating it again. Can't imagine there is anyone reading these threads that doesn't understand how you feel about the situation.

 

[Myk]

Agreed. The hope is that he only needed a QB that didn't require a ton of management. I expect Fields to run a complex O competently and who know? Having to wait for a QB may have helped Nagy better understand how to tweak for attributes.

That said, what is it that Fields can't do?

I fully expect we're going to hear the same things about how the QB is slow comprehending the system. But of course Nagy can't comprehend it's his system that's the problem.

And given the scuttlebutt is Fields was a Nagy pick, we are ALL about to find out what Nagy really can do - no more excuses now.

That's an odd way to end it after providing a long list of excuses most which all ultimately fall on the Head Coach's shoulders.
You also ignored how much better the team looked without Nagy calling plays and went right back to it when he started calling them again.

 

[modo]

Say JF plays the last 8 games or so.
He struggles in Nagys offense and the team goes 6-11.
Would Nagy get fired or would they give him another year to straighten JF out?

at 6-11, I would want him fired

 

[Mr. Jones]

We as fans have had to witness and live with the mistakes of 2 rookies. Pace and Nagy. The McCaskey's have been patient AF with the bone headedness of both. Hopefully Nagy will will use Fields and the rest of the players strengths and stop trying to create what crazy shit is in his head out of his players. It's been embarrassing watching the dumb gimmick plays and stupid decisions. Hope they have learned from their mistakes. They have been given every opportunity to redeem themselves.

 

[iueyedoc]

So, the scheme itself actually was WORKING. BUT!!!

There were 2 elements that were causing it to fail...

So it was working but it wasn't because of blah, blah, blah.

Horseshit.

WR running into each other, delay of games because of late playcalls, 6 runs a game, 12 bubble screens /game, a 5'5"175lb RB running between the tackles, awful clock management. This happened with Mitch, Nick, Chase, it didn't matter. The guy is a disaster.

So if JFF ends up being Mahomes 2.0, Nagy's system has a chance of actually working? Brilliant.

He single-handedly tanked a playoff game for KC in 2018 , up 21-3 at halftime and having a 98% chance of winning he proceeded to call 15/5 pass to run in the second half with K Hunt as his running back.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

It’s a catch 22 we still have Naggy being both a positive and negative thing. For one if reports are true fields is who he wanted it was him who pushed for him. Big positive cause who knows what one of the worst gm qb evaluators in the game would have done. As for the negative if the team takes a step back and we see nothing positive and Naggy gets fired will the next hc want fields or are we in another trubisky situation where he will be foisted in the next coach.

so it was a great draft pick IMO let’s just hope Naggy gets it done it will make life easier

 

[mecha]

you've all been saying Trubisky is a moron since he was drafted. Matt Nagy doesn't draft players, Ryan Pace does. it's been since revealed that Nagy was entirely hands off with Trubisky. it's also been since revealed he wanted Mahomes or Watson more. maybe, just maybe, he didn't think Trubisky was worth the time, which is also concerning considering he gets paid a lot of money to coach a team, but whatever. maybe it's different this go around, maybe one hand washed the other, but I would maybe expect more of the same from this clown show.

this team's problems, systemically, go back way before Nagy.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I fully expect we're going to hear the same things about how the QB is slow comprehending the system. But of course Nagy can't comprehend it's his system that's the problem.




That's an odd way to end it after providing a long list of excuses most which all ultimately fall on the Head Coach's shoulders.
You also ignored how much better the team looked without Nagy calling plays and went right back to it when he started calling them again.

The team didn't look better without Nagy calling plays when they went up against better defenses at the end.

 

[Spankypants]

Much like Trubisky, Nagy just isn't smart enough to do the job.

 

[baredown]

Best friend of a developmental QB is a solid running game. Nagy needs to commit to running the ball as part of a balanced offense, and to stick with it even when the other team's defense throttles it early. Unfortunately, that's not Nagy's track record. His instinct is go for the chunk plays early, often, and repeatedly when the first couple of running plays get stuffed. He got his play-calling card pulled last season because of that tendency. If he reverts to form in this coming season, he's going to lose more than his play-calling duties. Don't see Pace letting Nagy pull down another young QB by continuing to run a pass-happy offense...

 

[sevvy]

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but I don't have a lot of confidence in Matthew Nagy.

 

[hebs]

Looks like I'm in the minority, but I think Fields will get Bill Lazor a head coaching job within the next 3 years... Nagy's issue isn't really his scheme as much as it is his play calling.

 

[SugabearMVP]

One thing I'm wondering about is... what happens to Lazor regarding play calling?

 

[SugarWalls]

We have a potentially very good to great QB in the draft.....can Matt Nagy develop him?

Yes we got a QB, but do we have a coach the can get the most from Fields or will Fields have to overcome Matt Nagy?

Yes. Is Matt Nagy going to adjust his scheme and plan to fit what Justin fields can do, or is he going to force his brilliant design upon him?