Looking into 2022..

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Cubs will have a shot if Banks, Williams, Santo, and Jenkins come out of the Corn....

I would expect some payroll added. 120 would be the expected amount.

We know that Hendricks and Contreras are pretty much locked in.

They are making the effort to develop Alzolay Steel and Thompson. So 4/5 are set. Mills is a cheap option and decent on a .500 team.

The pen needs adds. Even getting Wieck and Maples back and promoting Leeper they will need to strengthen middle relief. But Hauer has been better as a Cub so he might become a decent closer.

Line up. I expect Happ traded. I would like to see Heyward given DFA. Take it on the chin. Hermosillo seems interesting enough to warrent playing time this year and a chance to take a roster spot. The other spot add a flip. Davis will promote and a top 15 demands playing time.

So it will be a flush and overhaul with resources. Or short term adds to provide stability.

So in view of this Alex Wood might be a target. If Jed is concerned with Marquez as a starter and they push him to closing then Rodon would be a stronger choice.

Hitters. I would love to see Jed target Cory Seager for 3B.

Now what I feel will happen?

Add a lefty to the rotation.

Add 2 BP arms. 1 a middle relief. 1 to compete for save opertunity.

1 bat that hits LH. I expect Happ traded. The line up will lean RH then. They lack a LH power bat with the void created by Happ. The system really lacks a pure LH thumper. So the logical choice is to target one. Off the chart is Danny Santana. SH plays IF. All OF. Power mid or lower tier. 2019 was a juiced year so toss that out. But he is a guy that you can mix in to rest guys and add a LH bat to a RH dominate line up.

As far as a pure LH threat? Schwarber has a 11.5M mutual and a 3 buy out. Boston needs him. So I don't see a break up.

Eddie Rosario would be another target.

But if Jed added Alex Wood, Eddie Rosario, Danny Santana and 2 pen arms. Jeurys Familia (32) and Alex Colome (33).

With that I believe the team would be respectable and short term enough.
 

SilenceS

Moderator
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
21,672
Liked Posts:
9,485
Did they go ape shit on the White Sox?
What does the White Sox have to do with it? Its a giant market team with a new agreement coming. The White Sox have never or will ever be the cssh cow the Cubs are and they are already talking a minimum cap. The Cubs walk into 2022 with a Pirates payroll. They are going to get absolutely hammered by the league and players.
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,234
Liked Posts:
6,641
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
What does the White Sox have to do with it? Its a giant market team with a new agreement coming. The White Sox have never or will ever be the cssh cow the Cubs are and they are already talking a minimum cap. The Cubs walk into 2022 with a Pirates payroll. They are going to get absolutely hammered by the league and players.
Bullshit.....they can do what they want. It's a business, not a dictatorship.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,315
Liked Posts:
18,803
There is no way the Cubs got the Field of Dreams game without assurances from Hoyer to the MLB that they were gonna spend this off season to at least be in contention. That is a massive prime time game.
I don’t think major league general managers are telling major-league baseball what their off-season plans are just so they can protect ESPN ratings
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,315
Liked Posts:
18,803
I post what I think. Not they will do it.

Opinion vs conjecture.

I think that they should target both Robby Ray and Carlos Rodon. Take the reasonable deal.

I think that they should add a vet LH bat. 3B or corner OF.

I think that they should add depth to the pen.

I think that they should not block Davis. Jed should retain Heyward then reserve RF for Davis.

That is what I feel they need. That is an opinion.

Saying Jed is going to do this because ... Demands it is conjecture. That is saying ... Is fact with no facts to back it
You say you post what you think is going to happen but it changes wildly from day today
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
You say you post what you think is going to happen but it changes wildly from day today

I read opinions on other websites and look up the player and decide if that idea will work. Some are trash. Some I feel are smart ideas and I toss out there for feedback here. So yes it changes because I do look into what others think.

Santana was tossed out there from fansided I believe. Might be bleacher nation. Rosario was a guy that I noticed while looking over the F/A OF. I didn't bother to look into 2nd and 3rd tier players but I am leaning towards Jed will target those types over the top pay day types.

MLBTR did a F/A piece and felt that Wood will not be able to command a large pay day due to his injury track record. Thus another prime target for Jed who tends to target buy low types.

No one really has said Rodon. When I post that, he is the one that I would like to see as the TOR.

I feel that Marquez is around 30% likely to be a Cubs starter right now. His delivery might end up wrecking his arm over time. That factors into my belief that Jed will target a lefty. If he was pushing Wicks up the food chain then I would believe a short term solution more than a long term solution. Wicks has not pitched yet.
 
Last edited:

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Megill and Jewel both need to be replaced ASAP.
 

greg23

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 28, 2014
Posts:
8,513
Liked Posts:
4,654
There is no way the Cubs got the Field of Dreams game without assurances from Hoyer to the MLB that they were gonna spend this off season to at least be in contention. That is a massive prime time game.

So they either

are planning on spending a ton on f/a this off season and somehow know it in august

Or

weren't planning (or were waiting to decide) on spending this off season but now that MLB said can be on TV for one Sunday game in the corn; they changed their mind and guaranteed MLB the would definitely spend

Is Ryan Pace the cubs gm?
 

Bud1234

New member
Joined:
Feb 6, 2020
Posts:
32
Liked Posts:
13
I don't think the Cubs are going to big spenders this winter, prospects are not seasoned enough at this point and need another year to figure out when guys might be ready. Heyward contact holding them back as well.

Maybe 1 or 2 guys - maybe couple of older veterans on 1-2 year deals

Like Ortega but he is a platoon guy, cant hit lefties and he is older 1-2 yr stop gap til prospects are ready.

Think infield will be Contrerras, Swindel, Madrigal, Hoerner, Wisdom with Bote mixed in.

Outfield??? Happ if he figures it out, Ortega/Hermasillo, Heyward/Diechmann??

Could see a FA outfield signing or some guys switched out in some trades. No one is going to take on Heywards contract without Cubs paying $10-15M a year of it.

Bunch of different bench/reliever guys next season

I wasn't upset with loss of Rizzo, Baez or Bryant, each had their issues.

Rizzo a little older, took 1st half of season to get going, would have to over pay to keep

Baez - 40% strike out rate - HR or bust but magical when on - hard to pay $20-30 M to a guy with low average/low on base and high SO rate

Bryant - Scott Boros was never going to let him resign with the Cubs - Boros pissed on service time (union negotiated) issue, cost him $$$
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
I don't think the Cubs are going to big spenders this winter, prospects are not seasoned enough at this point and need another year to figure out when guys might be ready. Heyward contact holding them back as well.

Maybe 1 or 2 guys - maybe couple of older veterans on 1-2 year deals

Like Ortega but he is a platoon guy, cant hit lefties and he is older 1-2 yr stop gap til prospects are ready.

Think infield will be Contrerras, Swindel, Madrigal, Hoerner, Wisdom with Bote mixed in.

Outfield??? Happ if he figures it out, Ortega/Hermasillo, Heyward/Diechmann??

Could see a FA outfield signing or some guys switched out in some trades. No one is going to take on Heywards contract without Cubs paying $10-15M a year of it.

Bunch of different bench/reliever guys next season

I wasn't upset with loss of Rizzo, Baez or Bryant, each had their issues.

Rizzo a little older, took 1st half of season to get going, would have to over pay to keep

Baez - 40% strike out rate - HR or bust but magical when on - hard to pay $20-30 M to a guy with low average/low on base and high SO rate

Bryant - Scott Boros was never going to let him resign with the Cubs - Boros pissed on service time (union negotiated) issue, cost him $$$

Cubs are ideal for fix it and flip pitching. Their pitching lab is legit and pitchers will want to see if they can do a few months in low pressure to adjust to a new pitch or delivery. Then catch on with a contender after. Basically what Jake was attempting to do but failed at.

A guy to look at as a 2 would be Pax. He fits the 1 year fix it.

Others

Dylan Bundy (29)
Alex Wood (31)
Michael Wacha (30)
Julio Teheran (31)
Daniel Norris (29)

But you would want to get a guy that is coming in on down value but upside. Age 29-30 where they can do a fix it year for a larger payday after.
 

JP Hochbaum

Well-known member
Joined:
May 22, 2012
Posts:
2,011
Liked Posts:
1,281
Next year is essentially 2015 all over for us. That year the Cubs got Hammel and Lester, well before we had started winning. To say they won't spend just shows a lack of understanding of where the Cubs are now. The more holes we fill now the less pressure we put on the farm to move up.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Next year is essentially 2015 all over for us. That year the Cubs got Hammel and Lester, well before we had started winning. To say they won't spend just shows a lack of understanding of where the Cubs are now. The more holes we fill now the less pressure we put on the farm to move up.

IDK about that.

Lets see:

Ortega: .297 Hit a GS today.
Schwindel 0 for but hitting .312.
Happ 1-4. But hitting better of late. Over .200
Wisdom. Smacking the white sox pitching again. His pace is 1 HR per 10 PA this year. Let that sink in.
Duffy 'Gone' Mad is already added.
Heyward Stuck with him. But 2-4. Something is working now.
Hermosillo His glove is solid in CF. Legit HR power. I'm not sure if he is anything more than a 4th OF though.
Chirinos Pretty solid back up. He might be a strong resigning.
Alcantara replaced by Hoerner

Now I would love to see Seager signed. Now we don't know if the DH will be implemented but lets say for argument sake it is.

Line up I'll let David make those choices. Too much issue with it going in raw.

LF: Today they went Ortega with Hermosillo in CF. The D justifies it. The BA not sure yet. I don't see a need to add here with the system depth pending. Add to it Happ is still under control.

CF Davis pending. Can move over. Yet again no need to invest.

RF As above.

3B Wisdom jacks them at a insane rate. Even in the minors he had 2 31 HR seasons in under 500 PA each. So his power is legit and is not fake. When you have a plus tool like that you create playing time.

SS Hoerner is a plus hitter and plus defender. Cubs need more of this.

2B Mad. Best contact hitter in baseball. Glove meh. So having Nico move off a GG spot for a D degrade was a bit questionable. But Jed IMO viewed the team need as a contact hitter over a plus glove.

So up the middle I see Jed going with stability over flash with both being plus contact hitters.

1B Schwindel. Going by his minors info. .285/.320/.478 hitter. He has 25 HR power over 500 PA. If there was a clear cut upgrade to him at 1B I personally would jump up and down. This year there is no single guy that stands out.


So I see the adds happening at SS and 2B. Both are being filled by non starting quality players. The replacements are both .300 hitters.

That is 2 internal upgrades in hand.

Rotation. Yet again Mills miffs me. When he is on he looks like Hendricks. Swear he is confusing as shit. I would stay status quo for now.


So over all this is not 2015. It is 2014. They have a Bryant pending. They made a big trade for a 2nd player that might break the top 100. The have a Soler type in A+. So the tools are there and they need a year to get Davis up.

The way I look at it is 2023.

LF Canario AAA
CF Crow-Armstrong AA-AAA
RF Davis MLB
3B Triantos/Preciado A+. Wisdom under control.
SS Howard AA-AAA Nico still under control.
2B Mad under control.
1B Nothing in the pipe.

So over all yes I could see a add if you feel uncomfortable with 1B/3B and Triantos and Preciado being in Rookie ball now. That is a long time to depend on Wisdom and Schwindel.

2022-2023 FA list

First Basemen

Jose Abreu (36)
Jesus Aguilar (33)
Josh Bell (30)
Phil Gosselin (34)
Eric Hosmer (33) – can opt out of remaining three years, $39MM
Trey Mancini (31)
Max Muncy (32) – $13MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Miguel Sano (30) – $14MM club option with a $2.75MM buyout
Carlos Santana (37)

Third Basemen

Hanser Alberto (30)
Aledmys Diaz (32)
Brandon Drury (30)
Evan Longoria (37) – $13MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Justin Turner (38) – $16MM club option with a $2MM buyout

My opinion at least. Sit on it this year. 2022 get Davis up and remove Heyward. Rotation should be set with 1-2 guys pending. Marquez IMO push into closing and let Heuer set him up.

Rotation:
Hendricks
Alzolay
Mills
Steel
Thompson
Kilian


So again I see the main investment being BP to close the door after the starter leaves. Get Davis up. Shot gun Marquez. Make him close in Tenn and Iowa next year and bump up with Davis.

That provides needed power in the OF and the 9th inning.

After that is settled they have CF and LF close. Bell will be on the market and Jed should make a push towards him. Give a 2nd power hitter to go along with Wisdom. Take pressure off Davis to produce power in his rookie season.

Rotation. Next year I would do a flip. Following year

Jose Berrios (29)
Matthew Boyd (32)
Sean Manaea (31)
Mike Clevinger (32)
 

Chicagosports89

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2018
Posts:
14,272
Liked Posts:
20,427
IDK about that.

Lets see:

Ortega: .297 Hit a GS today.
Schwindel 0 for but hitting .312.
Happ 1-4. But hitting better of late. Over .200
Wisdom. Smacking the white sox pitching again. His pace is 1 HR per 10 PA this year. Let that sink in.
Duffy 'Gone' Mad is already added.
Heyward Stuck with him. But 2-4. Something is working now.
Hermosillo His glove is solid in CF. Legit HR power. I'm not sure if he is anything more than a 4th OF though.
Chirinos Pretty solid back up. He might be a strong resigning.
Alcantara replaced by Hoerner

Now I would love to see Seager signed. Now we don't know if the DH will be implemented but lets say for argument sake it is.

Line up I'll let David make those choices. Too much issue with it going in raw.

LF: Today they went Ortega with Hermosillo in CF. The D justifies it. The BA not sure yet. I don't see a need to add here with the system depth pending. Add to it Happ is still under control.

CF Davis pending. Can move over. Yet again no need to invest.

RF As above.

3B Wisdom jacks them at a insane rate. Even in the minors he had 2 31 HR seasons in under 500 PA each. So his power is legit and is not fake. When you have a plus tool like that you create playing time.

SS Hoerner is a plus hitter and plus defender. Cubs need more of this.

2B Mad. Best contact hitter in baseball. Glove meh. So having Nico move off a GG spot for a D degrade was a bit questionable. But Jed IMO viewed the team need as a contact hitter over a plus glove.

So up the middle I see Jed going with stability over flash with both being plus contact hitters.

1B Schwindel. Going by his minors info. .285/.320/.478 hitter. He has 25 HR power over 500 PA. If there was a clear cut upgrade to him at 1B I personally would jump up and down. This year there is no single guy that stands out.


So I see the adds happening at SS and 2B. Both are being filled by non starting quality players. The replacements are both .300 hitters.

That is 2 internal upgrades in hand.

Rotation. Yet again Mills miffs me. When he is on he looks like Hendricks. Swear he is confusing as shit. I would stay status quo for now.


So over all this is not 2015. It is 2014. They have a Bryant pending. They made a big trade for a 2nd player that might break the top 100. The have a Soler type in A+. So the tools are there and they need a year to get Davis up.

The way I look at it is 2023.

LF Canario AAA
CF Crow-Armstrong AA-AAA
RF Davis MLB
3B Triantos/Preciado A+. Wisdom under control.
SS Howard AA-AAA Nico still under control.
2B Mad under control.
1B Nothing in the pipe.

So over all yes I could see a add if you feel uncomfortable with 1B/3B and Triantos and Preciado being in Rookie ball now. That is a long time to depend on Wisdom and Schwindel.

2022-2023 FA list

First Basemen

Jose Abreu (36)
Jesus Aguilar (33)
Josh Bell (30)
Phil Gosselin (34)
Eric Hosmer (33) – can opt out of remaining three years, $39MM
Trey Mancini (31)
Max Muncy (32) – $13MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Miguel Sano (30) – $14MM club option with a $2.75MM buyout
Carlos Santana (37)

Third Basemen

Hanser Alberto (30)
Aledmys Diaz (32)
Brandon Drury (30)
Evan Longoria (37) – $13MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Justin Turner (38) – $16MM club option with a $2MM buyout

My opinion at least. Sit on it this year. 2022 get Davis up and remove Heyward. Rotation should be set with 1-2 guys pending. Marquez IMO push into closing and let Heuer set him up.

Rotation:
Hendricks
Alzolay
Mills
Steel
Thompson
Kilian


So again I see the main investment being BP to close the door after the starter leaves. Get Davis up. Shot gun Marquez. Make him close in Tenn and Iowa next year and bump up with Davis.

That provides needed power in the OF and the 9th inning.

After that is settled they have CF and LF close. Bell will be on the market and Jed should make a push towards him. Give a 2nd power hitter to go along with Wisdom. Take pressure off Davis to produce power in his rookie season.

Rotation. Next year I would do a flip. Following year

Jose Berrios (29)
Matthew Boyd (32)
Sean Manaea (31)
Mike Clevinger (32)
Hard pass on Bell
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
Hard pass on Bell

Better than what is on the board at the corners.

This year I just don't see a major investment. Trading Contreras might be the big move to add a catcher with control and a LH bat. There will be a contender that will look to go all in in 22.
 

JP Hochbaum

Well-known member
Joined:
May 22, 2012
Posts:
2,011
Liked Posts:
1,281
@CSF77 you tend to focus too much on putting people into nice clean spots. When it comes to free agency, and a team that just needs studs, you sign the stud and worry about positions later.

This is why you get Correa and Rodon, even with the injury histories. Both guys will be assured to have another 5-7 good years and you could massively front load the contracts so that when our players hit ARB years their contracts won't be an albatross to deal with.

Just get the best available and worry about positions later.
 
Last edited:

garapp

New member
Joined:
Jun 19, 2018
Posts:
85
Liked Posts:
19
If I had to write in a starting 8 today on what carries over.

LF Hermosillo
CF Ortega
RF Heyward
3B Wisdom
SS Hoerner
2B Madrigal
1B Schwindel
C Contreras

Rotation

Hendricks
F/A signing
Alzolay
Steel
Thompson

Pen is up in the air but I can see 2 adds.

I do not expect a major signing right now. 2022 will be more flips and players with team control.

Late 22 is where we see the next wave start.

Of the above listed wait and see right now. Some of these guys are solid players. Not all star quality by no means but sound players. Add depth to the staff this is a 85 win team.
Gotta bring back Mills
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
@CSF77 you tend to focus too much on putting people into nice clean spots. When it comes to free agency, and a team that just needs studs, you sign the stud and worry about positions later.

This is why you get Correa and Rodon, even with the injury histories. Both guys will be assured to have another 5-7 good years and you could massively front load the contracts so that when our players hit ARB years their contracts won't be an albatross to deal with.

Just get the best available and worry about positions later.

You are assuming that Jed will get a green light to invest like that.

If Jed goes down that path, which I seriously doubt will be the case, Tom would have cleared debt to push payroll back to 200M.

My belief is no. Tom will use 2022 to push resource back into debt to catch up on lost revenue from 2020.

120M is what I expect for 2022. Can they add with that? Yes. But Jed tends to buy low sell high in these situations. When payroll goes up to 150+ then I expect a major investment.

The current team is swiss cheese. Not a single hole to fill. One guy doesn't make this team a contender. He becomes wasted resources.

Not to mention guys as listed are not going to hook up with a loser. Why waste their prime on a rebuild.

So nope. Nice to think that way but you are not looking at it from a business sense or a players motivation. Just from a fanboi point of view
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
17,955
Liked Posts:
2,775
Location:
San Diego
So invest into the pen. That is hotcakes in July. Teams dine on pen arms

If they do a flip on a rotation arm it is better to go after a pitcher who has has success and it is not due to a velocity drop

Enough said.
 

Bust

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 5, 2020
Posts:
9,186
Liked Posts:
4,435
It look like we got a replacements for the first base and CF. It's only a small sample, but Ortega and Schwindel can hit and play some defense. Hopefully more step in..

Cubs need to land 1 or 2 starting arms in free agency and they in business.

Infield is filling up nicely . . .

2nd base, Nick Madrigal
Short stop, Any of Steager, Correa or Story
3rd base, Pat Wisdom. Dude has 25 homeruns in just 279 at bats. As a full season everyday player he is gonna get 600+ plate appearances. IF he is a late bloomer and figured it out...he can legit become a 40+ homerun player.
 

Top