Ryan Pace and the next head coach.

[Chicago4Life]

1. Zero playoff wins.
2. One winning season in 7 years.

Yet I still see Pace defenders all over Twitter. (Not so much here)

I honestly don’t get it. I still see the “he inherited a bad roster” argument. I see the “he drafts good players” argument. I see the “he’s getting better” argument.

He’s been here 7 years. The defense is trending down. The offense has never once been good. His ass got saved by a HOF LT that was basically retired this year. This roster has holes everywhere.

My question is why would a good coach come here when Pace is the one “buying the groceries” for him? Do we really think a good coach is going to come here knowing Pace has provided a shitty roster for much of a decade now?

If you subscribe to the it’s all Nagy’s fault argument that means you think Pace put together a satisfactory roster these last few years. No good coach is going to look at this roster and think “yeah, I can win with that!”

So is there anyone here that really thinks a good head coach candidate is going to come here, look at the talent Pace has assembled, and say “I can get these guys to the Super Bowl.” Or is it more likely that any good coach is going to pass knowing he doesn’t have the horses to compete?

it sounds like you think pace will survive this season...i dont think thats the case, there are talks about pace being moved to a different role like president of football operations and such but there is no scenario where i see pace surviving this season as a GM.

this offseason they will have a new GM and a new HC, whether they get it right is a different story.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

it sounds like you think pace will survive this season...i dont think thats the case, there are talks about pace being moved to a different role like president of football operations and such but there is no scenario where i see pace surviving this season as a GM.

this offseason they will have a new GM and a new HC, whether they get it right is a different story.

He's a cockroach.

 

[rawdawg]

Here's Pace's picks who've turned out to be decent starters for the Bears (or more):

2015 (6 picks):
#2: Eddie Goldman
#5: Adrian Amos

2016 (9 picks):
#1: Leonard Floyd
#2: Cody Whitehair
#5: Jordan Howard (??)

2017 (5 picks):
#4: Eddie Jackson
#4: Tarik Cohen (??)

2018 (7 picks):
#1: Roquan Smith
#2: James Daniels
#5: Bilal Nichols

2019 (5 picks):
#3: David Montgomery
TBD: Duke Shelley as a nickel

2020 (7 picks):
#2: Cole Kmet (??)
#2: Jaylon Johnson
#5: Darnell Mooney
TBD: Can Trevis Gipson turn into something? Would Vildor have a future as a quality nickel?

2021, all TBD but have a shot at becoming a decent starter based on what they've shown:
#1: Justin Fields
#5: Larry Borom
#6: Khalil Herbert
TBD: Khyris Tonga is a successful pick in the 7th if he's a decent rotational run stuffer
TBD: Teven Jenkins

Not even counting the "TBDs" there, that's 17 guys, in 7 years. If you split the TBDs in half (pick one of Shelley/Vildor, one of Tonga/Gipson and assume Jenkins can be a passable starter then that's 20 guys in 7 years Pace picked up through the draft who could be real contributors, compared to just 7 more than that from his two predecessors in twice as many seasons.

See these things are always tough to me. Because it's not as simple as who's good or who's not. Getting a stud on Day 3 of the draft should get extra points. But by the same token, missing badly early should count against the GM extra. And then there's the Trubisky situation. Sure Trubisky wasn't what we hoped he would be, but he still started 50 games for the team, won 56% of those games and led 2 playoff teams in 3 years. He's clearly not a success story, but he's also not a complete failure as a player. As a pick he's a failure because of where he was drafted and who he was drafted over. But if Jeremiah is right, Mitch could be a starter again next year and if he's decent, it'll be more of an indictment on Nagy than a Pace failure.

 

[Nelly]

See these things are always tough to me. Because it's not as simple as who's good or who's not. Getting a stud on Day 3 of the draft should get extra points. But by the same token, missing badly early should count against the GM extra. And then there's the Trubisky situation. Sure Trubisky wasn't what we hoped he would be, but he still started 50 games for the team, won 56% of those games and led 2 playoff teams in 3 years. He's clearly not a success story, but he's also not a complete failure as a player. As a pick he's a failure because of where he was drafted and who he was drafted over. But if Jeremiah is right, Mitch could be a starter again next year and if he's decent, it'll be more of an indictment on Nagy than a Pace failure.

But what if he whiffs on first rounders consistently but grabs good players in the later rounds.

I think if anything has become clear over the years, it's that you can get quality players all throughout the draft, if not great ones... sometimes after the draft is over (Jason Peters for example). That's why I think it's pretty easy to look at total picks and total quality players picked.

Pace was brought in to improve our drafts as that's the best way to build a team. It's almost impossible to compete on a regular basis without regularly drafting well and I think Pace has done at least a decent job at that, certainly better than his predecessors. His misses are big ones (QB at #2/#3, coach and a handful of others). I don't really have a preference either way if he stays or goes, I just think Pace gets shit on a little too much and people forget that the ownership is incompetent so you might want to thank your lucky stars that they managed to find a guy in Pace who's maybe been decent overall.

 

[Enasic]

Success starts at the top, and the Bears are in the running for worst ownership in all of sports. So yea, I have zero confidence in their ability to find someone better than Pace. People forget just how starved we were for a guy who could actually draft someone who could become a solid starter or more. Angelo and Emery just wasted draft picks left and right and not because they traded them all away.

If pace were smart he would start trading down a lot more. He’s very good in the mid rounds and his history of trading up has not been good. Next year especially being short a 1st rounder (and trading up twice last year), they need more draft capital. I’d actually feel pretty good with pace if he made that adjustment to his strategy

 

[KittiesKorner]

'Pace is very good in the mid rounds'

Uh, because he never has a first round pick

 

[JesusHalasChrist]

His name is Teflon Ryan.

 

[Enasic]

'Pace is very good in the mid rounds'

Uh, because he never has a first round pick

I mean, he is good in the mid rounds and pretty good in the 2nd too. He hasn’t been great in the 1st, but you can’t really argue with the Roquan, Floyd, and Fields picks. He has faults, but he’s a good drafter. Just trades up too much

 

[playthrough2001]

Pace or no Pace this thread is kind of football stupid. There are only 32 of these jobs. Chicago is a world class city and has a rabid fan base. It looks like the QB situation has finally been addressed. Do you think a 49 year old Greg Roman who has never been a head coach in the league would not come here because of Ryan Pace? The same for just about anybody else that would be qualified for the job? Not a chance…

 

[Calabis]

 

[RubberBanMan]

That's simply not true. The last sentence specifically. And this has nothing to do with my personal view on Pace.

Apart from his previous work as a scout. He has a masters in marketing and also … In 2008, Pace attended the Stanford Business School's Executive Education NFL Program for Managers, a training ground for rising executives.

Point being He's been groomed for upper management from the onset.

…but why male models?

 

[dabears70]

1. Zero playoff wins.
2. One winning season in 7 years.

Yet I still see Pace defenders all over Twitter. (Not so much here)

I honestly don’t get it. I still see the “he inherited a bad roster” argument. I see the “he drafts good players” argument. I see the “he’s getting better” argument.

He’s been here 7 years. The defense is trending down. The offense has never once been good. His ass got saved by a HOF LT that was basically retired this year. This roster has holes everywhere.

My question is why would a good coach come here when Pace is the one “buying the groceries” for him? Do we really think a good coach is going to come here knowing Pace has provided a shitty roster for much of a decade now?

If you subscribe to the it’s all Nagy’s fault argument that means you think Pace put together a satisfactory roster these last few years. No good coach is going to look at this roster and think “yeah, I can win with that!”

So is there anyone here that really thinks a good head coach candidate is going to come here, look at the talent Pace has assembled, and say “I can get these guys to the Super Bowl.” Or is it more likely that any good coach is going to pass knowing he doesn’t have the horses to compete?

Pace hasn't been as bad as you seem to think he's been. Hasn't been great but definitely not bad and this coming from DB70 who has been saying i'm good with the Bears cleaning house including R.Pace after this year.

He got saved by a HOF LT?.........ummmmmmmm he's the one that signed that HOF LT to come here and play so good save Ryan Pace. Lol

Absolutely some of the top head coaching candidates will come here and do it happily IMO. You got a franchise type young QB in Fields and plenty of good young talent on both sides of the ball to go with him and some vets that still have plenty of good years in them. Some vets will need to go and get replaced but that's a normal NFL offseason for teams every year.

 

[dabears70]

Most other teams won’t have a GM with a 7 year track record of failure. Any coach that goes to Bears has to believe Pace can do a good job stocking the roster. History has shown he can’t do that. Why would a guy like Roman saddle himself with Pace? You know he can’t put together a full roster. At least with a new GM theres the hope the guy can do it.

He has a history of having great defenses and weapons on offense but no QB or HC/play caller to get the best out of them. The weapons have been here to win on offense and definitely on defense.

 

[dabears70]

I think Pace may actually be a draw. He is a shitty drafter and more likely to defer to a HC on the major draft decisions which is what any HC would want. You stand to have more control with Pace.

I would still fire both Pace and Nagy and start fresh but just saying.

100% not a shitty drafter and it's pretty amazing that people can't see it. Has he made plenty of mistakes? Of course as has every GM but far from shitty. Shitty would mean he hasn't hit on good players barely at all and it's laughable that people can't see that he has in every draft.

 

[dabears70]

Here's Pace's picks who've turned out to be decent starters for the Bears (or more):

2015 (6 picks):
#2: Eddie Goldman
#5: Adrian Amos

2016 (9 picks):
#1: Leonard Floyd
#2: Cody Whitehair
#5: Jordan Howard (??)

2017 (5 picks):
#4: Eddie Jackson
#4: Tarik Cohen (??)

2018 (7 picks):
#1: Roquan Smith
#2: James Daniels
#5: Bilal Nichols

2019 (5 picks):
#3: David Montgomery
TBD: Duke Shelley as a nickel

2020 (7 picks):
#2: Cole Kmet (??)
#2: Jaylon Johnson
#5: Darnell Mooney
TBD: Can Trevis Gipson turn into something? Would Vildor have a future as a quality nickel?

2021, all TBD but have a shot at becoming a decent starter based on what they've shown:
#1: Justin Fields
#5: Larry Borom
#6: Khalil Herbert
TBD: Khyris Tonga is a successful pick in the 7th if he's a decent rotational run stuffer
TBD: Teven Jenkins

Not even counting the "TBDs" there, that's 17 guys, in 7 years. If you split the TBDs in half (pick one of Shelley/Vildor, one of Tonga/Gipson and assume Jenkins can be a passable starter then that's 20 guys in 7 years Pace picked up through the draft who could be real contributors, compared to just 7 more than that from his two predecessors in twice as many seasons.

Wow what a shitty drafter Pace has been @remydat...LOl

 

[dabears70]

I can live with his drafting, I think it's improved. His cap management has gotten worse.

As I've said before, he's been using the cap and future draft picks like he is desperately trying to squeeze out a couple more wins and save his job. That's just not a recipe for sustained success. Should've fired him last year if they weren't going to commit to him.

I agree with this. Stevie Wonder could see that Pace isn't a shitty drafter as @remydat says he is but managing the cap has been an issue for him, but you have to remember that Covid hit teams hard with the cap especially the teams that were already strapped with the cap before the 2020 season, and although many haters will somehow blame that on Pace it's obviously not on him.

 

[Nelly]

Wow what a shitty drafter Pace has been @remydat...LOl

I was comparing Pace to the previous guys because at the time, if I remember correctly, Bears ownership specifically stated that the team needed to do better in the draft which is why they brought Pace in from New Orleans. I think the draft record speaks for itself there as he's definitely been better there. How much better? That's subjective, and there's other parts of the job like free agency, trades, hiring personnel and so on.

I think being a good GM starts with being successful in the draft though. I don't think you can have a sustainably good team without doing well in the draft. Any guy can throw money at free agents but free agents aren't signed by their existing teams for a reason and that usually shows up sooner or later in relation to their contract. Same thing for most guys available via trade. As an example, as well as Quinn is playing this year, last year was a bust and due to his age, it wouldn't be surprising if he suddenly fell off a cliff as early as next year.

Beyond that, you have injuries. Without quality talent in the pipeline to fall back on when you inevitably experience injuries, you're just going to fall behind. Angelo and Emery's teams had success here and there but only because of the free agents and trades and that's why the teams were so up and down when one of those main guys would go down for any amount of time. Angelo's record is littered with guys like Adewale Ogunleye and Muhsin Muhammad thanks to repeated failures in the draft with guys like Michael Haynes and David Terrell. No GM is immune to missing on picks but it's a cumulative thing that puts you behind the 8 ball compared to any team that can find quality talent up and down the draft.

Edit to add: for all the talk of Pace not being able to draft in the 1st, I think it's pretty even at this point.

Year 1: Kevin White. Bust but a little out of his hands due to incredible injury luck.
Year 2: Leonard Floyd. Wasn't a star here but a good, versatile starter who unfortunately found his pass rush after he left. I call this a quality pick.
Year 3: Trubisky. Miss of course, made worse by trading up.
Year 4: Roquan Smith. Major success as Smith is one of the best ILBs in the game.
Year 5: Traded for Khalil Mack who's been worth it.
Year 6: Also traded for Khalil Mack, but worth mentioning that he drafted Jaylon Johnson with the 2nd rounder received back as part of the Mack trade. Big success.
Year 7: Justin Fields. Looks great so far. If Fields turns out to be a stud then Pace almost reaches god status on that alone considering the absolute dearth of QB talent we've had since the 50's.

 

[Forty-six]

Pace constructed a defensive minded team, betting Mitch would be the guy and traded for Mack which was a swing for the fences the last piece of the puzzle lets win now move I like that aggressive mindset but it didn't work out.

The team now needs to move to a more offensive minded approach (you know, like most modern NFL teams) and surround Justin will top tier talent on that side of the ball. It's an organizational shift for a franchise that has always been built on defense. It needs to happen.

I don't think Pace is the guy to orchestrate that move. The Bears haven't won a playoff game since 2010. We need a fresh start and that means a new GM and head coach.

 

[remydat]

100% not a shitty drafter and it's pretty amazing that people can't see it. Has he made plenty of mistakes? Of course as has every GM but far from shitty. Shitty would mean he hasn't hit on good players barely at all and it's laughable that people can't see that he has in every draft.

Every GM has hits and misses. The issue is he has limited impact hits. Guys like Jackson and Whitehair who are hits for him have fallen off with new contracts. And his 1st round misses have been catastrophic.

He has been here 6-7 years and his best draft picks are always the latest ones because the more time his draft picks play in the NFL, the more they seem to be exposed. He has yet to have a guy he drafted get a 2nd contract and actually live up to it.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Pace hasn't been as bad as you seem to think he's been. Hasn't been great but definitely not bad and this coming from DB70 who has been saying i'm good with the Bears cleaning house including R.Pace after this year.

He got saved by a HOF LT?.........ummmmmmmm he's the one that signed that HOF LT to come here and play so good save Ryan Pace. Lol

Absolutely some of the top head coaching candidates will come here and do it happily IMO. You got a franchise type young QB in Fields and plenty of good young talent on both sides of the ball to go with him and some vets that still have plenty of good years in them. Some vets will need to go and get replaced but that's a normal NFL offseason for teams every year.

Spout all the BS you want…. Pace is a loser. That’s what he has for a record.